To scope or not to scope?/could this be ulcers?

EJL0911

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Hi all. Recently had a spot of bother with my 7 year old ISH mare. Back in April she had a particularly horrendous season lasting 4-5 weeks (got ‘stuck’ and became inflamed). During that time, every time I rode and I put my leg against her side, she would head shake, tail swish and usually buck (even in walk). So we called vet out when it became apparent that it wasn’t a one off (3 light rides and did it each time) she was happy to move forward ish, but just didn’t like her sides being touched. Anyway, he was very fixated on it being KS but then x rays were lovely. Then got second opinion where senior vet put her on regumate. Obviously after first vet visit she was out of work and began rearing in hand, showing signs of significant pain when painkillers wore off. Now on regumate she’s a very happy, chilled girl again. So fast forward 3 months to now, and I get back on. She feels AMAZING!! Eager for me to get on,lovely and forward into the contact, no sign of anything untoward..until I put my leg on. She was 60% better, But we still had tail swishing and a small head toss. We also noticed she was more girthy, she’s always been slightly girthy, and doesn’t like her sides being touched the first couple of times when you groom/rug her, and sometimes looks a bit tucked up. Last year she did show signs of mild colic when in season- looking at flanks, pawing, etc. She’s lovely on the ground and we’ve been doing lots of groundwork. My question is- is it worth scoping? Is scoping as bad as people say? My heart horse passed of colic last year so I’m extra nervy- which is what lead me to her. Has anyone had anything similar? This mare is so perfect for me, and I absolutely adore her ?
Thank you to anyone who made it this far, you deserve a medal!
 

Equi

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I’d be more inclined to try treatment first it won’t do harm and saves money. If it’s hind gut ulcers the scope won’t reach anyway and to scope they have to have no food in their system which can have its own complications.
 

EJL0911

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how would I then know which area of the stomach it is- If there is anything? Asking because I think pyloric are treated with a low dose for a long time, and the other sort with a higher dose for a shorter time? I would use something for her hind gut too, and would likely get that looked at with ultrasound too (or the small amount of it they can see!). I’m not sure if my insurance would cover the treatment unless I have her scopes but I’ll look into that. Thank you x
 

P.forpony

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I treated mine successfully without scoping.
I knew exactly what was wrong, she had been off hard feed for a bit (but she can be picky) then one afternoon I got on my chilled sweet girl and she tried to bury me, same thing the next day, I was on less than 2 minutes each time.
Saw vet for something unrelated halfway through treatment, he questioned my dosages and timings and approved.
Treated for a month then tapered off over a further 2 weeks.
Back to happy and healthy again.
Just been told by docs I have an ulcer too and the same protocol, treat first and see if there’s improvement.
 

EJL0911

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I treated mine successfully without scoping.
I knew exactly what was wrong, she had been off hard feed for a bit (but she can be picky) then one afternoon I got on my chilled sweet girl and she tried to bury me, same thing the next day, I was on less than 2 minutes each time.
Saw vet for something unrelated halfway through treatment, he questioned my dosages and timings and approved.
Treated for a month then tapered off over a further 2 weeks.
Back to happy and healthy again.
Just been told by docs I have an ulcer too and the same protocol, treat first and see if there’s improvement.
Thank you! I don’t even know if it is ulcers ☹️
 

ownedbyaconnie

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It could be remembered pain? My mare had a tooth removed and it’s taken a long time for her to seek the contact safe in the knowledge that it isn’t going to hurt anymore!

either way I’d have a chat with the vet and see what they say.
 

Bellaboo18

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It sounds like you want to know so I'd scope, it'll be easier to get the insurance to pay as well if she does need treatment.
If she comes back clear I'd give her something for her hindgut anyway just to be sure, something like acid ease isn't expensive.
 

P.forpony

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Thank you! I don’t even know if it is ulcers ☹️


If you’re not sure it might be worth trying a weeks treatment of sucralfate, it essentially forms a mucous like plaster that covers an ulcer site and drastically reduces discomfort. It works quite quickly so if you see an improvement then it’s a good sign you’re dealing with ulcer pain.
 

EJL0911

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It could be remembered pain? My mare had a tooth removed and it’s taken a long time for her to seek the contact safe in the knowledge that it isn’t going to hurt anymore!

either way I’d have a chat with the vet and see what they say.
Yes I’ll definitely be talking to my vet in a couple of weeks (in the 14 day exclusion period for insurance) and while she isn’t unhappy in anything but her ridden work I personally don’t see it as an emergency. What stops me from thinking it’s remembered pain is that when original vet came and she was in season, she was painful all along her back too as she gets very tight in season but she’s totally fine with me touching her back now ? so are least there’s that going right for me! I think for myself mentally I need to make sure there’s nothing physiologically before treating it as psychological ? thanks for your help and I’m glad your mare is doin fb better x
 

EJL0911

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It sounds like you want to know so I'd scope, it'll be easier to get the insurance to pay as well if she does need treatment.
If she comes back clear I'd give her something for her hindgut anyway just to be sure, something like acid ease isn't expensive.
I can’t tell you how badly I want to know! The whole time my gut feeling (pun not intended) is that she has ulcers but didn’t want to meddle if they weren’t causing problems. Mentally it’s driving me up the wall! Been dragging on for ages now. Think I put in my original post that it started in April and I meant February! D’oh ??
 

EJL0911

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If you’re not sure it might be worth trying a weeks treatment of sucralfate, it essentially forms a mucous like plaster that covers an ulcer site and drastically reduces discomfort. It works quite quickly so if you see an improvement then it’s a good sign you’re dealing with ulcer pain.
That’s really interesting thank you, I’ll contact my vets about that. I’ve just started her on Ron Fields ulc30x plus to see if that gives any indication but I’ll definitely ask about the sulcrafate x
 

EJL0911

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I’ve just realise I put April in my original post... I meant February!! What a numpty. Although, I haven’t slept properly in 3 days for worrying about it
 

Bellaboo18

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I can’t tell you how badly I want to know! The whole time my gut feeling (pun not intended) is that she has ulcers but didn’t want to meddle if they weren’t causing problems. Mentally it’s driving me up the wall! Been dragging on for ages now. Think I put in my original post that it started in April and I meant February! D’oh ??
I say get her scoped then, it'll put your mind at rest. She does sound ulcery but it's the only way you'll know for sure.
 

P.forpony

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That’s really interesting thank you, I’ll contact my vets about that. I’ve just started her on Ron Fields ulc30x plus to see if that gives any indication but I’ll definitely ask about the sulcrafate x

Also out of interest what’s her current diet?
I feed an ulcer friendly diet to everything as a preventative measure but there are a few changes I’ve made with mine that have definitely made a big difference.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Rather than the potential problems of scoping a possibly healthy horse, I would give an ulcer friendly diet with Aloe Vera juice to line the stomach and monitor carefully for up to a month. If there is no improvement, speak to the vet. If there is improvement continue with the new diet.
 

EJL0911

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Also out of interest what’s her current diet?
I feed an ulcer friendly diet to everything as a preventative measure but there are a few changes I’ve made with mine that have definitely made a big difference.
She’s on Dengie healthy hoof molasses free (will be switching to thunder brooks chaff) however she’s always been fine on it, grass and ad lib hay at all times. Never ridden or exercised on an empty stomach or anything like that. Chaff is also always wet- not for any particular reason, just out of habit for me as last horse inhaled it otherwise. She has a couple of supplements- glucosamine, biotin, salt and protexin gut balancer. Also regumate and ulc30x plus
It all started very suddenly after her season so I think it’s probably related to that but will of course look at everything in minute detail.
I just want my girlie to be okay ?
 

EJL0911

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Rather than the potential problems of scoping a possibly healthy horse, I would give an ulcer friendly diet with Aloe Vera juice to line the stomach and monitor carefully for up to a month. If there is no improvement, speak to the vet. If there is improvement continue with the new diet.
Thank you. Would you keep her on the ulc30x too, or trial that for a bit Then try aloe Vera juice?
 

P.forpony

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She’s on Dengie healthy hoof molasses free (will be switching to thunder brooks chaff) however she’s always been fine on it, grass and ad lib hay at all times. Never ridden or exercised on an empty stomach or anything like that. Chaff is also always wet- not for any particular reason, just out of habit for me as last horse inhaled it otherwise. She has a couple of supplements- glucosamine, biotin, salt and protexin gut balancer. Also regumate and ulc30x plus
It all started very suddenly after her season so I think it’s probably related to that but will of course look at everything in minute detail.
I just want my girlie to be okay ?

No issues there then ?
Always worth a double check, I hope she’s feeling better soon
 

JanetN

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Rather than the potential problems of scoping a possibly healthy horse, I would give an ulcer friendly diet with Aloe Vera juice to line the stomach and monitor carefully for up to a month. If there is no improvement, speak to the vet. If there is improvement continue with the new diet.
Has anyone tried aloe Vera juice as I am in the same situation as the poster . Not got all symptoms of ulcers just sensitive on her underside. My girl is not insured for various reasons mostly not mine her previous owner. Scoping would be costly but not knowing is making me feel guilty. Spent hours and hours tonight researching ahhhh
 

fredflop

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Could be worth giving rob Jackson a try... he’s good at picking on stuff normal physios/Chiron don’t
 

Myloubylou

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Rather than the potential problems of scoping a possibly healthy horse, I would give an ulcer friendly diet with Aloe Vera juice to line the stomach and monitor carefully for up to a month. If there is no improvement, speak to the vet. If there is improvement continue with the new diet.

I saw a quick improvement in demeanour after adding aloe Vera juice. She didn’t like to be groomed and would nip when rugged. Within days she seemed less sensitive to touch. Is cheap enough to add to see if improves her symptoms.
 

JanetN

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My girl nips when rugged and hates to be groomed. But then other days I can touch her belly with mom problems. Wondering if to scope or just try some different things first myself
 

Sugar Plum

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Better that you have a definitive answer so you can go the right treatment route. Unfortunately, now your insurer will exclude cover for treatment of ulcers in the future ?
 

PSD

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Better that you have a definitive answer so you can go the right treatment route. Unfortunately, now your insurer will exclude cover for treatment of ulcers in the future ?

they will, but they’re easily managed once cleared up so shouldn’t reoccur under correct management.
 
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