to sedate or not to sedate

[ann-jen]

I know there's been loads of clipping posts recently so am about to follow the trend. My mare is genuinely frightened of being clipped and so over the last few weeks I've been trying to desensitise her to buzzy things using a small hand held massage unit. She is now fine to have it held on her body, back and belly but still goes nuts if its on her neck especially the underside. Now she needs clipping desperately now and I have time to clart on with her this weekend so the question is do I try unsedated as she's loads better than she used to be except doing her neck is going to be a challenge or do I sedate her this time and get the job done and continue to try to desensitise her in time for next reclip? Thanks AJ

 

[GTs]

I personally would never sedate a horse to be clipped!!! But then again I doubt any of my horses would dare to misbehave with it, and if it was a problem it would be dealt with immediately not suddenly when horses need to be clipped.

 

[fizzer]

a girl in the next yard to me had someone out to clip her big boy, they got one side done and the girl cleared off cause he was such a nightmare, she rode out for weeks like that, eventually she gave him some acp and finished it herself just. he did get some looks out hunting

 

[Iestyn]

Personally I would sedate. I use sedalin every time as my boy is absolutely terrified of being clipped and I know it's genuine as he is so easy in every other way. I wouls try to de-sensitise him but a) I don't own a set of clippers and b) only tend to clip once in the winter so is it really worth it when I can give him some sedative and he stands quiet as a lamb and let's me get on ith it.? It's not worth the risk TBH - a horse will react much quicker than you and it could be quite dangerous. 500-600kg of horse v's you and you have no chance - I always opt for the safest option under such circumstances.

People can criticise me as much as they want but I'm in one piece and so is my horse - I'm not going to beat him into submission.

 

[merlinsquest]

would immediately and suddenly not be the same thing!!!!

 

[Zebedee]

I used to clip a lot for other people & got a reputation for being able to deal with 'difficult' cases. I think I clipped every psychopath in a 50 mile radius! The following year I wised up & told the clients who owned the worst cases 'no dopey no clippy'!
What I would then do when the job was finished was hang around until they were coming round, when I would run the clippers over them again. I would say the reactions were pretty well split 50 / 50 they were either quite happy, or just as bad.
Be aware though - if you're clipping a sedated hore the effect doesn't last all day! You need to know exactly what you're doing with regard to the clipping itself & be able to do the job quickly!

 

[watcherathome]

Sedating is fine, if you really have to clip..then you will have time to work on desensitising (try cotton wool in the ears). BUT I wouldn't recommend oral ACP, you really need to get the vet out to sedate IV, the paste is unpredictable and wears off very quickly

 

[Zebedee]

Sorry didn't make myself clear I meant full sedation from the vet, not ACP, or anything herbal off the shelf!

 

[GTs]

I do not think the majority of owners who claim their horses are scared of clippers actually are - the first person who did it, and the continuation of being allowed it created that behavior. My horses know they do not have a choice, and the beating would be far worse then the clippers.

 

[Dotilas]

LOL!

 

[Zebedee]

Don't normally disagree with your comments GTs but will with this one!
If I'm clipping a horse who for whatever reason doesn't want me to do it my aims are simply to cause the horse as least stress as possible, and to get it done without injury (to me!).
To this end I find sedation the best option. I am not in the business of 'beating' other peoples horses, nor would I stand by & watch them do it. My own horses are all fine to clip, but thats because they're secure in their enviroment & with me, not because I've beaten them in to submission!

 

[Emm]

I had one horse who was a dream to clip and one horse who was a complete nightmare to clip. If in doubt I would alway sedate to reduce the risk of injury to the person doing the job and the horse. Obviously the horse can still stike out etc., when he / she is sedated but it does reduce the "risk" of injury. Anyone remember Milton the big grey showjumper ? He damaged himself badly whilst he was being clipped which put him out of work for a long while..... maybe this would not of happened if he had been sedated but then hindsight is a great thing !! If in doubt, don't take the risk it's not worth it !!! Emm.

 

[ann-jen]

Unfortunately I inherited this problem when I bought the horse. I knew she was difficult to clip as was fully informed by the previous owner. Basically the the first time she was clipped she was out on loan and wasn't treated very sympathetically and her behaviour was allowed to get out of control. Certainly won't be using any bullying tactics as like with most women/mares that wouldn't achieve much!

I've owned her for just over 4 years now and have to admit have taken the easy option of sedating her (good old domosedan and torbugesic) to clip her every year but last year decided I wanted to get her over her phobia. I was a bit unclear in the first post as I have been desensitising since last year and built up our sessions more in the last few weeks knowing it was leading up to the time she would need doing. I certainly wouldn't say I was trying to sort the problem out at the last minute!!!

She has gone from being totally scared of having the clippers anywhere near her and blindly running away to allowing me to use the massage unit (the closest thing I could find to clippers that were cordless) all over her body with the exception of her neck area- sometimes she will stand still for this, sometimes not - she's still a little unpredictable with the neck area especially over her windpipe.
All in all I have pretty much decided I will sedate her again this time and continue to desensitise her until she's happy with the massage unit on her neck too, so hopefully will be able to do the reclip unsedated later in the year.
Thanks to everyone who replied. AJ

 

[GTs]

zebedee - I understand what you are saying. But the reality is the horse not going to learn - it is like those people whose horses do not load, yet they never practice. Changing this behavior is not going to happen over night, or in one clip but with lots of gradual steps - sedating a horse and doing it once a year is not gradual steps, not going to solve the problem and as far as I am concerned not the correct way to do it.

The beating that I was talking about would be a horse trying to get away with it, rather than one who already has developed the habit.

 

[Patches]

I seem to remember, I'm sure you do too GTs, that you told me last year that NO HORSE should need sedating for clipping.

I got quite emotional about it and I'm pretty sure I challenged you to come and clip Patches for me!

The reality is, I have now got to eat humble pie as Patches has let me clip her with a bib clip using my rechargeabe trimmers. I can run the trimmers all over her body, down her legs, under her tummy and she just stands there! Go figure!

I've adopted the, often termed, tree huggers philosophy to solve her problems and it has worked. I never for a moment thought it would, but it did. In three half hour sessions over three days we got to that stage. On day four I extended the bib clip to her elbows and from switching the clippers on to starting to actually clip her coat, was under a minute.

I'm still amazed and quite frankly flabbergasted. But, I owe you an apology for being rude to you last winter when I insisted it wasn't possible.

However, for those that don't own clippers and only want to clip once a year, maybe sedation is the best option as they will not have the time to dessensitise. Not sure how many yard owners would appreciate horse hair blowing over the fields either as the approach I used is designed to be achieved in an open space.

Anyone who wishes to try the technique on their horse, I thoroughly recommend "Think Equus - Approach to Clipping".

The original poster here has made great progress with her horse but hasn't been able to get the horse to allow her to touch the neck yet. She will in time, but the horse needs clipping now. Go ahead and sedate her and see how you go for next time.

Good luck.

 

[Zebedee]

Well as I say when I'm going in to clip its not my problem - I'm there to clip not re-educate, although I wouldn't like you to form the impression that if the animal moves a muscle I run from the stable screamng for the vet & syringe! Also feel that if the horse has already been allowed to develop these behavioral patterns is there any point in getting in to a fight just to prove a point? I would think about 80% of horses would react even more badly if they then began to asociate clipping with a beating!
You are correct in what you say - the behaviors shouldn't be allowed to develop in the first place but once they have the only way to correct them is through a gradual process of desensitisation.

 

[GTs]

Zebedee - I totaly agree with you!! I am of th ethought that fighting a horse who is worked up will never get you anywhere - horses only listen and learn when they are relaxed.

Patches - I am pleased to that you guys have made so much progress. I think last year I too was probably more blunt which I apologize for. These things (including loading into a trailer) are learnt behaviors, and not fears and all curable with small progressive, quiet steps and traumatic ordeals - I think you have seen it, and I am sure you will agree it is an awesome thing.

 

[Patches]

Awesome....that's an understatement! To put it mildly after I clipped her, I burst into tears and repeatedly told her over and over that she was "effin brilliant!" (whoops) I never dreamed it was possible and not in such a small space of time.

Pivotal is taking them out of the stable into an open space. Making them confront their own worst fears in a confined space (Stable or tied in a short rope) where they cannot utilise their flight reflex will only result in them fighting...hence the rearing and kicking out that I used to see.

In the field getting them to accept the decreasing distance between you and the clippers over a period of time, rewarding them when they stop running in circles (which they will) and standing still by switching them off DOES work. The key here is to NEVER switch them off when they play up and never let the horse back off and increase the distance between you and them to a point they they are comfortable with. They have to learn to accept what we're asking of them to be within their comfort zone by teaching and showing them how they have to behave...ie standing still = clippers turned off. I learned it's a process of showing them and helping them to deal with their problems.

Same process does work with loading. My yearling now loads effortlessly and yet he was like a scalded cat at the prospect 6 months ago.

Repitition and sympathetic handling, not bullying.

As for the apologies....there is absolutely no need! Your comments gave me a kick up the bum to attempt to remedy it. As I said, I didn't know if it would work, but taking the time, having the patience and trust in her have shown anything is possible. If Patches can do it, I strongly believe any horse can given time. I have complete faith that the original poster will get there with her horse in over time.

 

[ann-jen]

Thanks Patches,
I really hope so. She's made massive progress already but perhaps just not enough to get the job done this time.

 

[Patches]

I think you're right.

However, that doesn't make you any less of an owner, or anyone who struggles with clipping, loading etc for that matter. Not everyone has the time and facilities to try and effect a solution to the problem and if they choose to sedate their horse for clipping....then that's fine in my book. I have done it myself, I'd do it again if I had to.

I'm in a lucky situation as I have my horses at home and I work (loose sense of the term) on our farm with my husband. I can spend an hour here and there on remedial schooling. Others can't and that's ok too.

Good luck and please post pics of the clip! I love seeing clipped neddies.

 

[Tia]

QR

Just out of interest how much does it cost these days to have a horse fully sedated for a clipping?

Personally I would not sedate. I have had horses who don't like being clipped or are terrified of them. I've just desensitised them and it never takes very long to do this.

Our pony, Cloud was absolutely petrified of clippers when we got her 9 years ago; by the first winter she could be clipped, she was still a bit scared but that was fine as I took it really slowly and over a period of 5 or 6 days. Nowadays she stands perfectly for clipping, however I have to say that every single time I first start up the clippers she has an almost reflex action of getting very nervous, even after all this time. The minute the clippers touch her skin though, she totally relaxes and is no problem at all. Must be something very deep rooted in her psyche.

 

[Patches]

That's the stage Patches is at now. She flinches when I turn them on and walks around me but I gradually edge closer to her (I say gradually, it only takes about 20 seconds) and she will shoot a step forwards when they touch her and then stand still.

Last year it cost me, with callout, £68 to have Patches sedated. When I sedated her this year (before I'd watched the DVD and thought I'd give it a go) it only cost £25 including call out as I have moved veterinary practices.

If you had to then pay someone to clip the horse.....doesn't bear thinking about! At least now I'm hopeful that I can clip her legs off during the summer to keep her used to clipping before winter coats and body clipping come about again.

 

[Tia]

Well that's what I was wondering. Surely it would be cheaper in the long run for people to buy their own clippers? What are they nowadays - £250 or thereabouts? Doesn't take too many clips to get to this figure if vet is having to be called out.

 

[Patches]

Liveryman Arena's are £260 ish and do a very smart job but are a bit noisy and corded for nervous horses. I've had to sadly sell mine and invest in some Moser Avalons that work off a bettery pack on your belt. (they don't arrive till next week though!)

But yes, ultimately expense played into my hands as my great big hairy beast grew her blanket clip out in under three weeks! Gets dear to clip once a month at those rates!

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

My lad is good to do in everyway apart from clipping. He is frightened of them, I've tried getting him used to it but he has a bit of a phobia. He's a Hann x TB & doesn't grow a really thick coat & so I only need to clip him once each autumn & that lasts through the winter. I don't see the point of struggling & upsetting the horse so I sedate with sedalin & his clip goes well. If I could do it without I would but I can't.