to shoe or not to shoe?

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tangosmum

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I have been planning to keep my horse barefoot, he is 3 and so far never been shod, only trimmed.

He recently went lame after being chased round the field by a bully. Vet has put him on 2 weeks box rest and bute, and he is improving but stil swollen and stiff at the moment. Vet believes it is a concussion injury.

He has a very obvious bruise on the hoof of the lame leg. (pinky purple on white hoof).

Vet has suggested he be shod now....as he has white hooves which she says can be more sensitive. I explained I had been hoping to keep him barefoot, and as he was not yet doing any ridden work I didnt want to go down that route yet.

My question is....are white feet more sensitive/ less sound barefoot? Or am I likely to be able to keep him barefoot longterm or could this "concussion" injury be a sign of things to come.

His feet are pretty good at the moment.
 
The white feet are weaker thing is a fallacy - otherwise your horse would wear his feet at different rates if they were different colours. White feet do show buising more easily which makes it more noticeable, it just isn't visible in darker pigmented hooves, but could still be there just the same.
 
I do wish vets would do their research! White feet are no softer than black feet - the pigmentation in black feet is only in the very thin outer layer of hoof wall. The strongest part of the hoof wall is always unpigmented (white) and is what is called the water line - so you can actually say that all horses' feet are white (unpigmented). It is the water line that in a wild hoof (or a domestic hoof with a mustang roll applied) carries most of the horse's weight.

I have one horse with four white feet and rock hard hooves, I have another horse with two black feet and two white feet and there is absolutely no difference in wear between the black and white. He's an endurance horse by the way and competes at distances up to 50 miles in a day.

Advice to shoe a three year old is pretty scandalous IMO. The foot including the pedal bone, does not stop growing until the horse reaches at least five years old, so by shoeing before they foot is mature will prevent the pedal bone (and therefore the rest of the hoof) growing to it's full size and shape.

And if your horse is swollen and stiff I would hazard this is the more likely culprit of his lameness than a bruise on his foot, which of course show up more on the white feet but will just as commonly occur on the black feet too - they are just harder to see is all.

Stick to your guns - keep your horse barefoot... he will thank you for it.
 
my big cob has 4 white feet and they have never split he was barefoot till 7 yrs old then shod as everyone told me a carriage horse should be and he was never lame
for the past 6 months he just wasnt right in his shoulder then he threw a shoe on a wedding so we removed the other front one he was immediately sound and so now is barefoot and has been for 5 weeks and is still hacking on roads and tracks and doing weddings with his carriage completely sound so if he carries on like this will not have shoes again he is 14 now
i was salways led to beleive if they are on the road they must be shod but i am changing my thinking now
my welshie was broke to drive at 3 barefoot and was going great then at 4 he was trimmed a week later was footsore so i had him shod i didnt realise at the time his sole was pared away when trimmed now at 5 yrs he cant hold hind shoes for more than 2 weeks and was too high on his heels, so he has been barefoot for 8 weeks and is sound as a bell heels have dropped frog widening, thrush going and feet look better than they have in ages
so he will also stay barefoot they both drive and ride on roads and are great they go a bit footy over gravel and stones at the moment though
 
I really cannot believe a vet has said a white hoof is weaker than a black or that she suggests a 3 year old be shod.

Racehorses are shod young - look how sound they are in later years.....

I don't usually approve of vet bashing and suggesting their hoof knowledge in inadequate - but in this case I am speechless!

If the horse has some inflammation after having a razz around, I would like to know why rather than just slap a shoe on and look the other way.

When you pick up the foot and press your thumb into the sole - is it rock hard or soft and giving? If it is soft and giving - is the horse's diet right or does the farrier get a bit over-excited and trim the sole routinely?

I know someone who had her 3 year old WB shod because he would get anxious and bored in the stable when his haynet had run out and paw at the door. She was convinced by someone that his feet would wear away. I think getting to the yard earlier and turning him out would have been a better option!
 
Keep him barefoot, I bet you wont regret it, you cant always use boots when you start doing roadwork, I did that for a year and then havent needed them since and my girl did an endurance ride this spring in the Cairngorms up stony tracks, gravel, roads, moors and streams with no shoes on, even with quite flat shallow WHITE hooves.

Bet youll have less risk of arthritis and navicular later on with the blood pumping to his feet properly too :-)

Im very surprised at your vet, my old vet was head of equine at RVC and he said theres no difference between black and white hooves.....:-)
 
i have had 2 horses with white feet who worked without shoes in their later years(were both shod previously) and both had very tough feet and did very well. i tried to keep my black horse(black feet)shoeless as the others had done so well and had to give in as she wore them down so much she was sore. i had owned her from a yearling and ended up shoeing in front at first, then had to put hinds on so you have to treat all horses as individuals :D
 
Surely shoeing him would not stop him having a bruise? I am no foot expert but he seems young to shoe. I am not a particular barefoot or shoeing fan - I believe horses are individuals as are their owners. However I have a youngster and have no intention of even considering shoeing him until he is in full work (4 -5 years old at least). It must be best to leave them as long as possible if not forever so your vet seems to be keen to jump the gun IMO.

Talk your farrier or trimmer as well I do not think shoes sound like the answer here.
 
I have a horse with four white stockings and four white feet and he hunted a whole season barefoot. The only reason I stopped is because he really hates jumping and loves dressage, but he still does mile of roads and stony tracks with no shoes on.

Your horse got a bruised foot showing on the outer hoof wall from mucking about? (From the bruise it sounds as if someone trod on him or he trod on himself?) Ask your vet how nailing metal to the bottom of his foot would have stopped that, exactly??????
 
Wow, those are some passionate responses. Don't worry I have no intention of shoeing him whilst he is still growing...if ever!

He has the bruise on the outside of a hind hoof so he couldnt have stepped on himself probably another horse.

I will keep him as he is for now, he never seems foot sore after being longreined on stoney tracks, I think these injuries are caused by a couple of bully boy welsh cobs who think they can rule the roost.

My boy is improving with box rest, and surprisingly content with being kept in (at the moment).

When I heard vet's comment on white feet and putting shoes on him I was more than a little taken aback..hence post.

I have spoken to farrier in the past and he asked me "Will you put a set on him once he is 4?" I said NO, and he looked at me as if I was mad! My yard is full of "my little pony types" who rarely put their horses in the field, do lots of schooling and all have thoroughbreds and warm bloods. So when I talk about keeping him barefoot, longrein him and (on the odd occasion) lunge in a Dually Halter and a treeless saddle....(with no side reins) I get a few rolled eyes in my direction!

Glad to have had the confidence boost with the shoeing Q though.

Oh and those who have asked about his diet....he is on Simple Systems Lucie nuts and stalks and total eclipse balancer (100% forage diet) no sugars or starchs, plus 9kg of hay. (when he is in on box rest) and 1 section of hay when he is living out 22/24 hours a da which he eats when he is in for a couple of hours.
 
tangosmum said:
Wow, those are some passionate responses. Don't worry I have no intention of shoeing him whilst he is still growing...if ever!

He has the bruise on the outside of a hind hoof so he couldnt have stepped on himself probably another horse.

I will keep him as he is for now, he never seems foot sore after being longreined on stoney tracks, I think these injuries are caused by a couple of bully boy welsh cobs who think they can rule the roost.

My boy is improving with box rest, and surprisingly content with being kept in (at the moment).

When I heard vet's comment on white feet and putting shoes on him I was more than a little taken aback..hence post.

I have spoken to farrier in the past and he asked me "Will you put a set on him once he is 4?" I said NO, and he looked at me as if I was mad! My yard is full of "my little pony types" who rarely put their horses in the field, do lots of schooling and all have thoroughbreds and warm bloods. So when I talk about keeping him barefoot, longrein him and (on the odd occasion) lunge in a Dually Halter and a treeless saddle....(with no side reins) I get a few rolled eyes in my direction!

Glad to have had the confidence boost with the shoeing Q though.

Oh and those who have asked about his diet....he is on Simple Systems Lucie nuts and stalks and total eclipse balancer (100% forage diet) no sugars or starchs, plus 9kg of hay. (when he is in on box rest) and 1 section of hay when he is living out 22/24 hours a da which he eats when he is in for a couple of hours.
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Hehehe your experience made me chuckle, I think they gave up on me at the last yard - no shoes, SS foragey slop for feed, no draw reins/side reins/martingales, half the time no saddle :o We have tried treeless and it didn't do what it said on the tin for us but having an adjustable saddle with squishy serge panels & having it checked twice a year (why on earth do you do that? Surely you bought a saddle for your horse that fits??) was also regarded as strange ;)

I bought my mare when she was 4, she had been shod at 3 & nearly failed the vetting because in less than a year of shoeing, her feet were doing very bad things. The vet's comments on the vets cert were enough for the insurance co to exclude anything foot-related from her cover. My vet was a bit :confused: about me taking her barefoot but we did & a few months later he wrote a letter to the insurance co saying her feet were now fine, so we have fully insured feet - yay :) Hopefully my vet is now a bit less skeptical about barefoot too!

I try not to be too evangelical about barefoot because it can be a struggle, especially if like me your horse is on a livery yard owned by a cow farmer who likes to fertilise his fields every 5 mins. It has been worth it so far though and I have every intention of keeping my horse barefoot for as long as I think it's the best thing for us. If the need arises, you can shoe your horse at some point if the circumstances mean it the best thing to do, and you can take the shoes off again if the circumstances change. However for a youngster I can think of few reasons why they would really need to be shod if you do your best to get the diet & environmental factors right. Being barefoot has never been a limiting factor for my horse, she is 8 now ;)

Good luck :cool:

ETA - she also has 4 butter-soft predominantly white feet. So soft that her trimmer was sweating cobs and bemoaning the fate of her sharpest rasp yesterday. She will need to order a few new ones now ;)
 
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For the record I think all you tree-hugger bitless and treeless peeps are more than a little soft in the head :) :) :) (This is a JOKE!) But I'm a HUGE pragmatist myself and I'll do anything that works for my horses. Treeless didn't and I gave it up. Bitless? No way thankyou :) ! But the barefoot thing blew me apart when I started it six years ago. I was a total cynic, more cynical than anyone who now argues with me on this forum, but desperate. I couldn't believe my eyes what happened and now I wouldn't let a farrier put shoes on a horse of mine even if THEY paid ME.
 
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cptrayes said:
For the record I think all you tree-hugger bitless and treeless peeps are more than a little soft in the head :) :) :) (This is a JOKE!) But I'm a HUGE pragmatist myself and I'll do anything that works for my horses. Treeless didn't and I gave it up. Bitless? No way thankyou :) ! But the barefoot thing blew me apart when I started it six years ago. I was a total cynic, more cynical than anyone who now argues with me on this forum, but desperate. I couldn't believe my eyes what happened and now I wouldn't let a farrier put shoes on a horse of mine even if THEY paid ME.
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Lol - well said Caroline. Have to say though, despite being sceptical, I've recently gone the bitless route and so far so good, including doing my first race ride, complete with mass start. It was quite exciting but I had enough brakes! His flatwork has improved hugely since losing the bit.
 
Pragmatism is what it's all about in my book ;) I read the blurb on the treeless website saying that the saddle I had for my mare would revolutionise our lives, all that happened was I nearly bankrupted myself buying various pads & shims and had some interesting horsey toothmarks on my anatomy :o Tried bitless but although reasonably successful again it didn't live up to the hype, horse seems happier in a bit so that's what we use. All my personal experiences of barefoot have been great so I'm very much a pro-shoeless person, but I do know people who tried barefoot and eventually went back to shoes with great success. It seems that sometimes a spell barefoot lets the horse grow the foot it wants, and possibly equally importantly it prompts the owner to get up to speed with hoof function, diet, environment, & all the stuff you need to be an intelligent customer for a farrier. So if the shoes do go back on (usually because of recurrent seasonal LGL/discomfort) things go spectacularly better than they did before. I've known horses that were pretty much written off come good this way. That's why I don't totally disparage shoes - IMO they have their place (and I might use them one day so I can use studs on slippy ground, but that's a 'take it as it comes' decision ;))
 
I am no treehugger! But do believe in not wrapping horses up in cotton wool and being that my boy is 3 I have no need to put a bit in his mouth or a treed saddle on his back right now.

That is not to say that in time these things will happen. I will certainly ride him in a bridle eventually, I have ended up with a leather and sheepskin treeless saddle (Copperbeech) bought for £100 off eBay....purely because I couldnt find a treed saddle to fit him! He is rather wide! I adore it.

I kind of like the natural stuff with SS feeds and expecting him to live out etc etc. But each to their own. I am not trying to convert anyone to anything, just doing what I think is best for my boy. The My Little Pony brigade on my yard do make me laugh....as I know I do them...with my hippy horse! as he gets called lol!
 
Hugging trees is very rewarding :-)

They only hug as much as you want and never expect anything more.....

And they don't answer back or expect you to cook dinner
 
Unless you have someone on the yard who hugs more trees, harder and with far more passion, than you ever will :rolleyes:

In which case you just go 'aaah knickers to it' and don't give a monkeys what anyone thinks anymore :D
 
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