Tokyo Pentathlon SJ

milliepops

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The MP was broadcast to a global audience as to what it considered to be the acceptable treatment of horses in a competition. No riders were disciplined, just the German coach.

It shows to the non horsey world how some athletes regard the equipment for their sport when it malfunctions, except that this equipment is live and kicking.
but if the argument is that it's too difficult now to call out bad riding at grass roots etc that's irrelevant? because grass roots are horsey people. they ought to know right from wrong.

i'm not defending bad riding in sport, i don't want to see it either. i just can't make the 2 different things join up.
 

teapot

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I havent seen the incident with the coach striking the horse, but how is OK that the riders can use whips and spurs without being sent home ?
There are rules about whip use, but they're flaky and spurs are allowed if the owner(s) of the horse says so.

The MP was broadcast to a global audience as to what it considered to be the acceptable treatment of horses in a competition. No riders were disciplined, just the German coach.
No riders were disciplined that we know of. This is taken from the UIPM news piece yesterday:

'Now we are looking forward to the Men’s Final tomorrow and I must say to those who do not know our sport so well, the presentation of the facility and the horses were of a high quality. Maybe there were a few moments that you would say were not so nice but I tell you – the horses are absolutely excellent.'

https://www.uipmworld.org/news/toky...entathlon-coronation-day-ice-queen-french-gbr
 
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ycbm

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The video on that report is just awful.

I don't know how people on this thread seem to be suggesting that this is nothing to make a big fuss about because it was fleeting, because that's how the sport is scored to find a worthy winner, because it will all be forgotten about in a week or two, because more and worse happens at local level, or for any other reason at all. Watching the video I could cry for that poor horse who was just begging for someone to save him. What owner lets this be done to a horse?


Screenshot_20210807-152754_Chrome.jpg
 

palo1

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Yeah, it's hard to grasp that someone would allow their horse to be used like that but that absolutely reveals some basic stuff about attitudes to animals that exist and are widely supported - or at least enough for people to sign up for it.
 

Upthecreek

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I just watched it again. What happened was disgraceful. Even worse is that the rules do not allow an intervention in circumstances like that. It was very clear the horse did not want to jump and once the rider lost control of her emotions somebody should have put a stop to it. Once she finally managed to get the horse moving forward it was pretty obvious how the round was going to go. Why can’t it be in the rules that the rider can switch to another horse in that situation?

ETA it should have been stopped first and foremost for the welfare of the horse. And the rider allowed the opportunity to jump another horse so that she was not effectively out of the competition due to the turn of events.
 
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Arzada

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The video on that report is just awful.

I don't know how people on this thread seem to be suggesting that this is nothing to make a big fuss about because it was fleeting, because that's how the sport is scored to find a worthy winner, because it will all be forgotten about in a week or two, because more and worse happens at local level, or for any other reason at all.
I would like to think that the quick and decisive expulsion of the German coach will send a message to organisers at local levels that they too can and should act decisively and deal with people who are mistreating horses
 

milliepops

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The video on that report is just awful.

I don't know how people on this thread seem to be suggesting that this is nothing to make a big fuss about because it was fleeting, because that's how the sport is scored to find a worthy winner, because it will all be forgotten about in a week or two, because more and worse happens at local level, or for any other reason at all.
Literally no one has said that?
 

paddy555

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The video on that report is just awful.

I don't know how people on this thread seem to be suggesting that this is nothing to make a big fuss about because it was fleeting, because that's how the sport is scored to find a worthy winner, because it will all be forgotten about in a week or two, because more and worse happens at local level, or for any other reason at all. Watching the video I could cry for that poor horse who was just begging for someone to save him. What owner lets this be done to a horse?


View attachment 77256
totally agree. More and worse might happen at local level and it will certainly get a boost from this. Child or more likely teenager has the same problem. Parents who know nothing except how to write the cheque see this. Good bridle to use, whip, spurs all OK. Thump the horse. Well if someone as experienced at the German coach can why not us?

Why did any owner/trainer let a horse go out in those circumstances with an amateur rider in that bridle? I agree what sort of owner would even consider their horse going into that situation?
Might just be the colour on my screen but the tongue on there looks almost blue.

Disgraceful. I would expect everyone on this forum to totally condemn this, no if's, no buts.
Why the h*ll was this horse flown around the world to put up with this for human amusement.
 

Velcrobum

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I havent seen the incident with the coach striking the horse, but how is OK that the riders can use whips and spurs without being sent home ?
I read about it in The Telegraph then watched the accompanying video. It was hardly a punch more a shove as the horse was napping backwards into the rails around the ring I had to watch the clip twice to she the shove. Interesting in the public comments many said "that was not a punch" Of course none of us know how the horse had behaved in the warm up 20 minutes. But as others have said it was not pretty and the athlete should have requested an alternate when she had the option to do so.
 

teapot

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totally agree. More and worse might happen at local level and it will certainly get a boost from this. Child or more likely teenager has the same problem. Parents who know nothing except how to write the cheque see this. Good bridle to use, whip, spurs all OK. Thump the horse. Well if someone as experienced at the German coach can why not us?

Why did any owner/trainer let a horse go out in those circumstances with an amateur rider in that bridle? I agree what sort of owner would even consider their horse going into that situation?
Might just be the colour on my screen but the tongue on there looks almost blue.

Disgraceful. I would expect everyone on this forum to totally condemn this, no if's, no buts.
Why the h*ll was this horse flown around the world to put up with this for human amusement.
All the horses were borrowed locally either from private or club homes?

I read about it in The Telegraph then watched the accompanying video. It was hardly a punch more a shove as the horse was napping backwards into the rails around the ring I had to watch the clip twice to she the shove. Interesting in the public comments many said "that was not a punch" Of course none of us know how the horse had behaved in the warm up 20 minutes. But as others have said it was not pretty and the athlete should have requested an alternate when she had the option to do so.
There's a lot of misinformation re requesting a different horse - turns out she couldn't.


Also where's the public criticism over images like these?

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detai...e-jumping-news-photo/1234437871?adppopup=true

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detai...ping-team-news-photo/1234516253?adppopup=true
 

littleshetland

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I managed to find the video. Yes, it's a punch , as in the woman has made a fist shape with her hand. The horse is running backwards toward the barrier, the rider's desperatly trying to make the horse go forwards (in between sobs). The riders whole demeanour is one of total distress - almost panic in her efforts to go forward . The horse backs up to barrier and the coach appears (to me anyway) to shove/push the horse with her fist rather abruptly. To be completely honest, imo, I doubt the horse even felt it that much, I think the rider was causing all the problems. The whole thing's just horrible to watch - poor horse. Just heard a news report on R4 that the rider was a tearful mess before she even got on the poor thing.
 

Oka

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It was accompanied by 'hit him, hit him right' or similar words. The entire reaction of more than just that German rider seems to be if the horse doesn't go, hit it, if it still doesn't go, hit it again and harder. That is not horsemanship. The rider came into the ring already in tears so something had gone wrong beforehand. She was visibly upset before she even started which will not have helped poor Saint Boy. My worry is that the focus is entirely on this rider, in the same competition we saw horses presented wrongly at jumps and hit if they didn't jump from a stride and a half out. Horses refusing and being hit by an obviously furious rider. Another rider leapt off her horse as he walked out of the ring, and walked away while he is loose, his groom only a appeared a few seconds later(at a run, bless her, in contrast to the horses being met by a team to ensure they were well cared for in all the other equestrian events, where are the teams of people with water and ice for these horses?). Riders wearing spurs and daylight showing between leg and horse as they ram their heels in. Gag bits and tight nosebands being practically used as weapons as the horses are yanked about. THis is at Olympic level? As has been said, what in the nine hells happens at the lower levels where all the eyes of the world are not on them? In literally any local show at least two of these riders would have been asked to leave the field by the stewards.

If the horse section is kept then put rules in place, no spurs, no gag bits, snaffle bits only. FEI rules and inspection of horses because I wish someone had checked them over for blood and brusing. I honestly hope that the backlash means that the horse section is taken out, and I dont' say that lightly. I used to think that this was a sport I would have enjoyed, I'd rather walk over hot coals than support it in any way after seeing both the coverage on the television AND the following blame aimed at the horse by athletes and press alike. Basically if they can't be trusted with them then take their horses away, put in some other event in involving inanimate equipment.

It has soured my enjoyment of the Games to be honest, but more than that, it has brought the Olympics into disrepute, which frankly I think will do far more towards something being done about it.

I read about it in The Telegraph then watched the accompanying video. It was hardly a punch more a shove as the horse was napping backwards into the rails around the ring I had to watch the clip twice to she the shove. Interesting in the public comments many said "that was not a punch" Of course none of us know how the horse had behaved in the warm up 20 minutes. But as others have said it was not pretty and the athlete should have requested an alternate when she had the option to do so.
 

Chianti

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All the horses were borrowed locally either from private or club homes?



There's a lot of misinformation re requesting a different horse - turns out she couldn't.


Also where's the public criticism over images like these?

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detai...e-jumping-news-photo/1234437871?adppopup=true

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detai...ping-team-news-photo/1234516253?adppopup=true
I've watched very little of the Olympic equestrian cover. As I get older I have very little interest in watching horses with their mouths strapped shut, that are unable to raise their heads above a set level and have been bred with increasingly unnatural movement. I could weep at what we do to horses in the name of 'sport' and 'entertainment.' The photos above are shocking as these are meant to be the elite and if they're riding like that then god help horses. I didn't see the women's MP but watched a few of the men today. The first rider - on a grey?- was appalling and the poor horse still tried its best. Why do owners put their horses forward? I've seen video of the German rider. Why was she allowed to keep going when the horse kept refusing or knocking down fences?
 

oldie48

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I felt very sad for the German rider, she didn't rise to the occasion of having to ride a horse that had already proved to be difficult (I suspect the horse had shut down) but she had been training towards this competition for years, was in first place and her emotions must have been running pretty high. The poor horse was badly ridden for less than 2 minutes but this rider will have this video with her for years, poor kid! It reminded me of when Laura Collett had Kauto Star shut down when she was trying to do an exhibition ride (sorry can't remember which show), she didn't cope well and received the most horrendous abuse on social media. TBH if you haven't been in such a high pressure situation, I think it's very unfair to criticise, but that's MPOV. Perhaps the MP needs to be made "modern", get rid of the showjumping and replace it with a BMX challenge then if things don't go according to plan at least no horses are involved and everyone gets the same bike to kick around!
fwiw I have seen worse riding at local shows than at the olympics, these horses and ponies get ridden appallingly day in and day out, often badly shod in poorly fitting tack and often obese (rider and mount), frequently lame as well. I can't help thinking that we are picking the wrong target?
 

mariew

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totally agree. More and worse might happen at local level and it will certainly get a boost from this. Child or more likely teenager has the same problem. Parents who know nothing except how to write the cheque see this. Good bridle to use, whip, spurs all OK. Thump the horse. Well if someone as experienced at the German coach can why not us?
That's a rather sweeping statement. I would say parents and kids would look more at what was going on in the showjumping rather than modern pentathlon?

Plus the debate that has followed is probably not a bad one and highlights the ugly side that should be avoided which cannot be a bad thing. I have seen social media reactions from non horsey friends that have been shocked about the treatment of the horses.
 

Velcrobum

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Popped back to D Telegraph and looked further at the comments, The top rated comments were all criticising the rider pointing out that the whole point of the 20 minutes before the round is for the rider to suss out the horse and adapt their riding accordingly. One person said the horse was reacting to its rider having a tantrum in the saddle. The ex MP athlete used by the BBC said it is up to the rider to create empathy with their horse and that the German's uncontrolled tension would have transmitted to said horse and made the situation worse.
 

Kat

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I have a nasty feeling that the punishment of the coach is a way of the governing body looking like they have done something to answer the outcry rather than address the problem.

The sanction is pathetic. Banned from the rest of the Olympics, after the event she coaches is over, wow, that will really make her think.

No sanction of any riders or officials. No commitment to review the circumstances.

That poor horse didn't stand a chance. The picture YCBM posted clearly shows the gag is being pulled so tight it has hit the noseband. I would be amazed if he wasn't injured by the way that bit and martingale combination was being used by both riders. I haven't heard any news from any vets. It is really distressing.
 

splashgirl45

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i am amazed that a horse would have a gag on with a tight noseband and to be ridden by what looks like a novice rider. if he has been jabbed in the mouth a few times its not surprising he was running backwards. i wouldnt ride any horse in a gag with only one rein and i am pretty competent and have a secure seat....i would imagine this is what the owner rides him in which begs the question, if he has to have such a severe bit, is he suitable to be used in this competition. i think they could replace this with prix caprilli, i bet most of you will never have competed in that.:) its a walk,trot canter test with 2 small cavaletties to jump. it needs a bit of skill and wouldnt be so exciting for the general public to watch but better for the horses.... i looked at the list re what was allowed and most of them allowed everything and i think only one of them said no to spurs, so if that is how the owners think, what hope is there?
 

teapot

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I have a nasty feeling that the punishment of the coach is a way of the governing body looking like they have done something to answer the outcry rather than address the problem.

The sanction is pathetic. Banned from the rest of the Olympics, after the event she coaches is over, wow, that will really make her think.

No sanction of any riders or officials. No commitment to review the circumstances.

That poor horse didn't stand a chance. The picture YCBM posted clearly shows the gag is being pulled so tight it has hit the noseband. I would be amazed if he wasn't injured by the way that bit and martingale combination was being used by both riders. I haven't heard any news from any vets. It is really distressing.
i am amazed that a horse would have a gag on with a tight noseband and to be ridden by what looks like a novice rider. if he has been jabbed in the mouth a few times its not surprising he was running backwards. i wouldnt ride any horse in a gag with only one rein and i am pretty competent and have a secure seat....i would imagine this is what the owner rides him in which begs the question, if he has to have such a severe bit, is he suitable to be used in this competition. i think they could replace this with prix caprilli, i bet most of you will never have competed in that.:) its a walk,trot canter test with 2 small cavaletties to jump. it needs a bit of skill and wouldnt be so exciting for the general public to watch but better for the horses.... i looked at the list re what was allowed and most of them allowed everything and i think only one of them said no to spurs, so if that is how the owners think, what hope is there?

This is the horse jumping with the first rider before they had issues:

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detai...of-russia-news-photo/1234498255?adppopup=true


(We ran prix caprilli for the kids once at camp, it was chaos in a good way!) Also horses will be seen slightly differently in Japan (as they are in China and the Middle East) compared to Europe so allowing spurs may be seen as the norm.
 
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Goldenstar

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That’s was a really difficult bitting combination to ride a horse you don’t know in a difficult high stressed situation .
A Waterford gag with one rein , strange choice .
 

Regandal

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The video on that report is just awful.

I don't know how people on this thread seem to be suggesting that this is nothing to make a big fuss about because it was fleeting, because that's how the sport is scored to find a worthy winner, because it will all be forgotten about in a week or two, because more and worse happens at local level, or for any other reason at all. Watching the video I could cry for that poor horse who was just begging for someone to save him. What owner lets this be done to a horse?


View attachment 77256
Possibly the same kind of people who think this is ok?
C06A3C26-B2FF-4C7E-A188-B987704B29DF.jpeg
Brute force to yank the horse round. It’s ok though, because it’s Nick Skelton. 😔. Zoom in and look at the horses eyes.
 

milliepops

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we can pull up ugly photos of literally everything you can do with a horse. if people are wanting to ban the riding in the MP in order to stop the general public calling for the end of all horse sport i think that's a pretty short sighted idea tbh because everything has indefensible moments.
we need to strive to make it all better (or quit riding and encourage others to do the same...)
 
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