Tokyo Pentathlon SJ

Annagain

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I raised the draw reins. I should maybe have said at the time that I didn't particularly have a problem with them - they're pretty loose. I just think that if you're going to arrange a PR opportunity in these circumstances, to show him 'relaxing' at home, recovering from a bad experience, they're not the best look. If they have any PR nouse, they'd also take the opportunity to show that he was a suitable horse for the competition and was good to be ridden by different riders. Again, the draw reins don't really create that picture. If you're going to arrange a PR opportunity in these circumstances, footage of him ambling about on a gentle hack would be far better but appreciate his location might not mean that's possible. Second best would be ambling about on a loose rein with a few strides of trot thrown in and maybe a short canter up the long side.
 

milliepops

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draw reins are seen as pretty standard tack in some circles, i think it's only places like HHO where they are seen as the devil's work.

i don't think UIPM have any idea what good PR to the horsey community looks like or any concept that they might be fanning the flames with this particular bit of equipment.
 

Fellewell

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As any fule kno it is never the fault of the horse and this one was being asked to stop and go simultaneously which never ends well. It's a testament to his schooling that he didn't go up. Was there a last minute tack change perhaps. It seemed to me that the jab from the coach was to stop him from backing up to the fence. Riders have sustained life-changing injuries and worse from landing on fencing so her move was probably instinctive.
The fact is this was an amateur rider who lost her nerve under pressure. Heck of a time to lose it but it happens. Perhaps MERs should be introduced appropriate to this level.
 

Fruitcake

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https://www.archysport.com/2021/08/annika-schleu-in-an-interview-wasnt-rough-at-any-time/

I just read this interview with the rider Annika Schleu (assuming it legitimate, perhaps translated from German). She claims that her riding wasn't at fault and that she kept her reins long?! I watched the footage back and she is pulling him in the mouth, whipping and spurring him excessively.

If she genuinely believes she treated that horse kindly, it goes to show how uneducated she is about good horsemanship.
Quite. I’m actually quite shocked at her attitude in this interview. Has she watched the footage back?! How on Earth anyone could see themselves behaving like that and think it acceptable is beyond me. I suppose, like you say, it proves her lack of understanding. I’m surprised that someone hasn’t given her some guidance - at least from a PR point of view- though.
 

Goldenstar

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To put it brutally there are horses living all over the world in conditions I would not keep them in .
Horses working in ways I would work them in .
Thats got nothing to do with the MP and nothing to do with Olympics .
I think any criticism around this horse where he lives the tack he wears etc etc misses the point the issue was caused principally by the expecting horses to jump that test twice with two different riders .
 
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teapot

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lynz88

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when he was in the arena with the german girl, reversing and holding his head up, refusing to walk forwards, i thought it was a classic sign of back pain, but no vet or steward came forward to assess him, all he got was walloped

if he had already been ridden and refused he could have been lame to start with or twisted himself refusing before the german girl got on as the warmup did not go well, evidently

the time allotted to warmup is too short, not long enough for horse and rider to get on speaking terms, and reach operating point physically for the horse.

its like the people running the show are oblivious to, the horses needs, the horses welfare, the time frame warmup, and utterly blind to when its going wrong and fail to act by intervening even to check things out, and incapable of making a decision to pull the horse from the competition, which they should have done.

his eyes have that disinterested switched off look
I haven't read much of this thread or seen very much of the video (seen bits and parts - enough to be able to know what went on) but this was exactly my thoughts...he was behaving exactly how mine behaves when there is a really big pain issue for him. I had posted similar thoughts about a lameness/pain issue on a FB thread when this had all just occurred and got shot down pretty quickly. But for me, the horse's reaction was so uncannily similar to what mine does when he is in pain it was the first thing that jumped to my head.
 

laura_nash

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This has become ridiculous
I don't see anything ridiculous in the accusation? She did whip the horse, the coach was encouraging her to do that, and the horse was clearly frightened and over taxed. The whipping was clearly not done for "training" purposes or safety reasons or any other similar excuse. I don't see any defence to the accusation myself, unless its "worse things happen elsewhere every day", which TBH could be used to defend anything.
 

Miss_Millie

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I think it's a good thing that it isn't going away. Whilst it's true that worse things happen to horses behind closed doors, the Olympics is meant to be the height of sporting excellence - athletes who perform should set an example of good sportsmanship, and in the case of equestrian sports, treating horses ethically and mindfully.

I've seen lots of people sharing memes/screenshots of Saint Boy and thinking it's hilarious and that the horse was essentially just 'trolling' her. To horsey people who know what a horse in pain looks like, it was not nice to watch at all. So I think it's important that the message is sent out - cruelty to horses in sport will not be tolerated.
 

TPO

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Penny from The Big Bang is wanting to buy Saint Boy to "rescue" him. She's told them to name their price and she will ship SB to her barn in America.

I can't help but think SB doesn't need rescued from his normal situation and that all of that money could make a massive difference to horses actually in need of rescuing.

She has also directed fans towards the German rider and called them out. Her offer to buy the horse and criticism of the rider and coach has made headlines.

I can't help but feel for the German rider and the abuse that she must be receiving and/or reading about herself. A moment of madness, that shouldn't have happened, under the worlds spotlight with the pressure of an Olympic medal weighing down (that she then lost). I hope that she is getting the help and support that she needs.
 

SO1

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My understanding is that riders can request a different horse if the horse has jumped poorly for the first rider. If this is the case why didn't she do this?

I presume she must have felt that riding him would be better than the substitute horse.

Perhaps a rule that any horse that is eliminated is not used again and a substitute horse bought in. If the elimination is caused by poor riding then when the 2nd rider gets on they are at a disadvantage as the horse may have been wound up or upset by the previous rider. On the flip side ridden well in the first round and successful then 2nd rider may have it easier as the horse has seen the jumps and knows what to expect.

It does seem that the ridden element is a bit unfair on both horse and rider. Maybe one horse per person in each the women's and the men's class. That would mean each horse only jumping two rounds with potentially poor riders rather than 4 rounds. Also have the horse jumped round the course first by it's owner or normal rider to prove it can do it before letting the competitors do it.

Perhaps a lower at say 90cm but more technical course would better as then you might have a wider range of school master horses with the scope to jump it but you are still testing rider skill. Maybe no whips or spurs allowed in the class.
 

ycbm

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Why do they need to jump at all? It wasn't a skill needed by the cavalry, or was it? Single fences maybe, but not a showjumping round. Why can't they just do a skilled challenge where poor riding/poor horse and rider match is not so detrimental to the horse?
.
 

Berpisc

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Why do they need to jump at all? It wasn't a skill needed by the cavalry, or was it? Single fences maybe, but not a showjumping round. Why can't they just do a skilled challenge where poor riding/poor horse and rider match is not so detrimental to the horse?
.
That was what I was aiming at with my comment about le trec; more of a general skills test than showjumping?
 

Rowreach

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Why do they need to jump at all? It wasn't a skill needed by the cavalry, or was it? Single fences maybe, but not a showjumping round. Why can't they just do a skilled challenge where poor riding/poor horse and rider match is not so detrimental to the horse?
.
Sadly (in my opinion) things that were requirements for cavalrymen riding horses in battle have these days been taken to wild extremes in terms of horse "sport", and I am not sure whose benefit it is actually for, but it's not for the horses'.

However I'm glad that we no longer use them as cannon fodder.
 

ester

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My understanding is that riders can request a different horse if the horse has jumped poorly for the first rider. If this is the case why didn't she do this?

I presume she must have felt that riding him would be better than the substitute horse.
This has been discussed a lot on this post, I think I linked to the rules on it and provided extracts. The situation did not meet the requirements for her to be given the option of the spare horse.
 

tristar

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well they are right, keeping horses in small paddocks with no grazing is bad for the horse, a horse needs 6 hours a day grazing and freedom, . grass is the natural food, the horse needs continuous movement, it has the right to express its natural tendencies, freedom, change of environment

i hope someone does buy saint boy, nothing will be too good for that horse, and use his experience to make sure this does not happen again, or get swept under the carpet and forgotten when its no longer news
 

SibeliusMB

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While I appreciate Kaley Cuoco's offer to buy the horse, I think she didn't realize he wasn't owned by the German rider/team. Another byproduct of the immediacy of social media - few people take the time to get educated on what they're really replying to. Saint Boy looked in good weight and well cared for at home, he doesn't need "rescuing." I do agree he's earned a life of luxury, but I don't see a need to remove him from his home in Japan. And while some here might not like the idea of dry lot living, it is a reality for many horses in this world and if well managed with access to good forage, is perfectly acceptable way of horse keeping. Not everyone has access to perfect grass pastures, and not all horses can realistically be turned out on grass all the time.

That said....if I was Saint Boy's owner and didn't have a massive emotional connection to him, I'd probably sell and make serious $$$ and give the horse an incredible home with Kaley.;):p
 

mle22

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I don’t think horses should be used in the MP, but the whole way through this post I have been thinking about working horses and donkeys in poor countries and the misery that is their lives. I urge anyone who is concerned about Saint Boy to donate to a charity like Brooke or PFK if they can afford to and don’t already. That would be a positive action on behalf of suffering equines.
 

HashRouge

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Quite. I’m actually quite shocked at her attitude in this interview. Has she watched the footage back?! How on Earth anyone could see themselves behaving like that and think it acceptable is beyond me. I suppose, like you say, it proves her lack of understanding. I’m surprised that someone hasn’t given her some guidance - at least from a PR point of view- though.
I don't understand the claim that everything was great in the warm up and super harmonious, and it was only when the cameras were on them that things started to go wrong. Hmmm. So that will be why she was in floods of tears already then.
 

greenbean10

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I don't understand the claim that everything was great in the warm up and super harmonious, and it was only when the cameras were on them that things started to go wrong. Hmmm. So that will be why she was in floods of tears already then.
I would assume she had trouble getting him into the ring, knew that it was over for her and it was then that she crumbled.

I’ve ridden horses that are perfect in the warm up and nappy in the ring as they have to leave their friends and go it alone. So I can definitely believe this part of the interview. I can’t think there’s any benefit to her lying about his attitude in the warm up?
 
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