MinskiKaii
Well-Known Member
Barking Mad. It's about the increase in the number of dog attacks in the UK and how to stop the problem without punishing resposible owner. I'll definatle be have a watch.
Tonight at 8 on ITV 1
- Thread starter MinskiKaii
- Start date
Red30563
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll give that a watch.
EAST KENT
Well-Known Member
Here we go again...
GeeGeeboy
Well-Known Member
Watching it now. Was so sad to see that lovely young dog being put down.
milo'n'molly
Well-Known Member
Its all the staffies fault, its not the chavey little ######## fault
ladyt25
Well-Known Member
It was just awful that. Don't know how the people actually do it - there is now way I could have put that lovely dog to sleep. It's so ridiculous that dogs who have no history of any aggression are PTS because someone has decided it is a banned breed. I wouldn't have even said that looked like pitbull. RIP little dog
MinskiKaii
Well-Known Member
Unfotunatly its saffys, staffys and more staffys as usual. We rehomed 2 year old staffy x who had had no training or socialising at all when we got her in Ocotober. She's come a long way since then and is easy to train and loves nothing more than sitting on your knee covering you in staffy kisses.
EAST KENT
Well-Known Member
This BSL has got to stop,many pit types are the very best dogs ever ..and great with kids. It is little short of a holocaust and it must stop.
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
Considering the programme was only half an hour I felt it was well balanced. They constantly referred to responsible ownership and when they showed the young lad with his dog and he said he wasnt allowed to carry a knife so thats why he had the dog that summed it up for me.
I dont think the police will relent on the banned breeds precisely because of the type of owners they would attract, when you saw all those young lads with those dogs I felt very sorry for anyone who lives near them.
I dont think the police will relent on the banned breeds precisely because of the type of owners they would attract, when you saw all those young lads with those dogs I felt very sorry for anyone who lives near them.
ladyt25
Well-Known Member
I am not against the banned breeds per se but what I have an issue with is a perfectly healthy dog being PTS just because it conforms to a breed type, not because of any behavioural issues. I found it upsetting that what appeared to be a perfectly lovely, friendly and obedient young dog had to be PTS because someone had dumped it and a professional deemed it to a banned breed. How do they actually prove it is a pitbull anyway?
The breeders/owners should be punished/fined or whatever but in my opinion the dog itself shouldn't have to be the one to get the death sentence - unless of course it has actually got a history of aggression.
The breeders/owners should be punished/fined or whatever but in my opinion the dog itself shouldn't have to be the one to get the death sentence - unless of course it has actually got a history of aggression.
Alec Swan
...
For those who would use the argument, blame the deed, and not the breed, explain something to me; are you suggesting that those dogs which have the potential, either by construction and or temperament, to cause the most horrific injuries, should each be judged on their own individual histories? Histories which mean that action against the owner is always retrospective? Should society wait until the seemingly gentle and amenable dog has created havoc, or worse?
I have yet to understand the mentality of the lad in the film, who because he's not allowed to carry a knife, has at his disposal an animal which is just as dangerous, perhaps more so. In my view, that specific dog, and those like him which are taken onto our streets, displaying such behaviour, should be put down.
I have no particular wish to upset others on here, but my honest view is that dangerous dogs, in the hands of clowns, should be humanely destroyed. Whilst the law permits their breeding and sale, so these desperate events will occur.
Alec.
I have yet to understand the mentality of the lad in the film, who because he's not allowed to carry a knife, has at his disposal an animal which is just as dangerous, perhaps more so. In my view, that specific dog, and those like him which are taken onto our streets, displaying such behaviour, should be put down.
I have no particular wish to upset others on here, but my honest view is that dangerous dogs, in the hands of clowns, should be humanely destroyed. Whilst the law permits their breeding and sale, so these desperate events will occur.
Alec.
EAST KENT
Well-Known Member
Actually it is never the dog`s fault;all of these "banned" breeds have the potential at birth to be completely amenable pets.I have met some pretty fearsome bull terriers,but don`t judge the whole breed on those but on the majority of rather dim comfort loving lumps most of them are.So,if a pit ends up owned by a complete idiot hoodie ..does it have to be the dog who faces the death penalty?
The naughty staffie ,being kept in a cage in a garage hardly had the oppotunity to exercise his energy did he? If a dog who is what I call "high octane" has no chance to channel his energy into healthy exercise , then of course it will turn bad.
Dogs of this type NEED to run free in a decent sized enclosed space ,what I call "being a dog",rather than continual control either in a cage or a tight lead,once they get this they chill out and change for the better.
I actually do own a pit type bitch..brought in here as a death row staffie;now she may be Am. Bulldogxstaffie,possibly,but she could not be rehomed as she is "type". She is the nicest ,safest dog here,utterly charming, I suppose she could be turned nasty with a bit of effort,but this won`t happen.She is certainly a "status" type dog ,but that is not her fault is it?
There was a prog on a while ago about idiot dog owners learning how dogs should behave and be trained,more of that is needed.
No,they do not need killing,their stupid owners need educating ,and then they will find they really do have a magnificent dog on their hands. Behaviour that is funny (?) in a yorkie or poodle is seen completely differently in a status dog,sadly they often have the same stupid type of owner.
The naughty staffie ,being kept in a cage in a garage hardly had the oppotunity to exercise his energy did he? If a dog who is what I call "high octane" has no chance to channel his energy into healthy exercise , then of course it will turn bad.
Dogs of this type NEED to run free in a decent sized enclosed space ,what I call "being a dog",rather than continual control either in a cage or a tight lead,once they get this they chill out and change for the better.
I actually do own a pit type bitch..brought in here as a death row staffie;now she may be Am. Bulldogxstaffie,possibly,but she could not be rehomed as she is "type". She is the nicest ,safest dog here,utterly charming, I suppose she could be turned nasty with a bit of effort,but this won`t happen.She is certainly a "status" type dog ,but that is not her fault is it?
There was a prog on a while ago about idiot dog owners learning how dogs should behave and be trained,more of that is needed.
No,they do not need killing,their stupid owners need educating ,and then they will find they really do have a magnificent dog on their hands. Behaviour that is funny (?) in a yorkie or poodle is seen completely differently in a status dog,sadly they often have the same stupid type of owner.
Alec Swan
...
Educating? Are you being serious? These clowns who probably paid scant regards to their teachers at school are hardly likely to listen to you or others, no-matter how well argued your points. You have to bear in mind that the bulk of those who want these dogs are virtually illiterate, indeed those found with a pen or pencil about their person could justifiably be charged with carrying an offensive weapon, because you can guarantee that they wouldn't have it for its intended purpose.
I feel very strongly that the banned breeds, in general, are banned for a very good reason. In the all-so-often wrong hands, they are offensive weapons, and I wont subscribe to the view that all dogs should be given a chance.
I understand EK, that you wont agree with me, and I truly respect your views, but the well being of the dogs concerned would be better served by their humane destruction. For me, the situation can be reduced to the clear line that the generally un-trainable (or at least, the very difficult), are owned by those who aren't qualified to deal with them. All those who have these dogs, who know what they're doing, seem to have taken them in as rescues, and very few, or so it seems to me, have actually gone out to buy such an animal. There's a good reason for that. The experienced or pro handlers want nothing to do with them, generally.
I've laid my cards on the table, and fully expect to be shot at, and regaled with tales of the odd and individual dog, of the type under discussion, who is a paragon of virtue. The vast majority are a dangerous liability, in my view!
Alec.
Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
I saw something years ago where they had a few pictures of dogs & asked people to identify the pitbull. What was quite worrying is that the majority picked out the wrong dog, including dog handlers from the police.
My pony got severely attacked by a pit bull just prior to them being banned. The vet thought it was likely to result in pts because the risk of infection from large unstitchable wounds was so high. The dog already had a history of aggression & had previously been ordered to wear a muzzle in public. As it also had a go at the yard manager it was pts. Even at the time though, as a young girl with a pony stood in a pool of blood with a vet giving instructions over the door as she lost it whenever anyone else near, I wanted to kill the owner, not the dog. Yes it was too dangerous to be trusted & pts was the only option. But from what came to light of its life with the owner I think most dogs would have lost it. And quite often when you take an idiots badly trained dog from them, there's nothing to stop them just getting another. To my mind taking either a dangerous, or potentially dangerous dog from an idiot owner won't make much overall improvement until its coupled with a lifetime ban on dog ownership.
Until a few years ago I knew someone who had a lovely pitbull, although its breeding was never discussed except amongst friends. As the owner was a good responsible one up until it being pts of old age, not one person ever mentioned it being a pitbull, including vets, local dog training groups & the police who came to an incident he witnessed out dog walking. So whilst I do believe its the owners fault, I'm not sure education is the answer, for the same reasons alec swan has said. Idiots will always be idiots. Given the choice I would have the owners charged in the same way they would for carrying or using any other weapon, & a lifetime ban on dogs.
As for pitbulls who haven't yet done anything wrong, I wouldn't reverse the ban but I would agree to exceptions on a case by case basis, so that the friendly well trained dog with the responsible owner doesn't have to be pts needlessly. I would be happy with them being removed from idiots & rehomed with no history of aggression, but I think given the numbers of dogs pts in dogs homes for lack of homes, the result would still be pts anyway.
My pony got severely attacked by a pit bull just prior to them being banned. The vet thought it was likely to result in pts because the risk of infection from large unstitchable wounds was so high. The dog already had a history of aggression & had previously been ordered to wear a muzzle in public. As it also had a go at the yard manager it was pts. Even at the time though, as a young girl with a pony stood in a pool of blood with a vet giving instructions over the door as she lost it whenever anyone else near, I wanted to kill the owner, not the dog. Yes it was too dangerous to be trusted & pts was the only option. But from what came to light of its life with the owner I think most dogs would have lost it. And quite often when you take an idiots badly trained dog from them, there's nothing to stop them just getting another. To my mind taking either a dangerous, or potentially dangerous dog from an idiot owner won't make much overall improvement until its coupled with a lifetime ban on dog ownership.
Until a few years ago I knew someone who had a lovely pitbull, although its breeding was never discussed except amongst friends. As the owner was a good responsible one up until it being pts of old age, not one person ever mentioned it being a pitbull, including vets, local dog training groups & the police who came to an incident he witnessed out dog walking. So whilst I do believe its the owners fault, I'm not sure education is the answer, for the same reasons alec swan has said. Idiots will always be idiots. Given the choice I would have the owners charged in the same way they would for carrying or using any other weapon, & a lifetime ban on dogs.
As for pitbulls who haven't yet done anything wrong, I wouldn't reverse the ban but I would agree to exceptions on a case by case basis, so that the friendly well trained dog with the responsible owner doesn't have to be pts needlessly. I would be happy with them being removed from idiots & rehomed with no history of aggression, but I think given the numbers of dogs pts in dogs homes for lack of homes, the result would still be pts anyway.
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of breeds ie Rotties,Dobes,Gsd etc in those idiots hands would have been just the same, the one common denominator in all this is the idiot owners who seem to comprise of young men.
There is a very good reason one young men have higher car Insurance but unfortunately it also affects the thousands of young men out there that are responsible.
Unless we can get a culture of its cool to have a well trained dog amongst these young men then this is going to go on. Perhaps the doggy equivelent of Gordon Ramsey or someone similar can go out there and show them how its done. Wouldnt that be a programme worth watching.
There is a very good reason one young men have higher car Insurance but unfortunately it also affects the thousands of young men out there that are responsible.
Unless we can get a culture of its cool to have a well trained dog amongst these young men then this is going to go on. Perhaps the doggy equivelent of Gordon Ramsey or someone similar can go out there and show them how its done. Wouldnt that be a programme worth watching.
EAST KENT
Well-Known Member
The strange thing is that these youngsters could be good dog trainers,they regulerly have their dogs off lead and at heel;not too difficult with something like a lab or spaniel..but bloody hard with a staffie or pit.
I cannot condone the killing of healthy dogs just because they drew the short straw in their owner. It is a tragedy for the staffie type dog,and it needs addressing ,but a Haulocast is not the answer. Maybe a big collected tax on un-neutered dogs unless owned by council licenced breeders is a way to go.
If these feral scrotes cannot read or write..well that is a failure of our school discipline and education system ..not the dog`s.
The Am Pit used to be the darling of the American family,it is a wonderful animal in the right home,actually not unlike bull terriers in character,just a load brighter.
I cannot condone the killing of healthy dogs just because they drew the short straw in their owner. It is a tragedy for the staffie type dog,and it needs addressing ,but a Haulocast is not the answer. Maybe a big collected tax on un-neutered dogs unless owned by council licenced breeders is a way to go.
If these feral scrotes cannot read or write..well that is a failure of our school discipline and education system ..not the dog`s.
The Am Pit used to be the darling of the American family,it is a wonderful animal in the right home,actually not unlike bull terriers in character,just a load brighter.
EAST KENT
Well-Known Member
Discuss..anyone??
wipeout
Well-Known Member
s4sugar
Well-Known Member
Maybe bring in a neutering program................not for the dogs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHNXMgBSei0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHNXMgBSei0
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
I'd like to see a practical test. Can the owners control these dogs? If they are of a suspect type and their owners cannot control them, end of story. Surely it would not be too difficult to devise a test?
Alec Swan
...
I agree, and for it to be a success, then it may help if there was an element of competition, as in working tests and trials. They would need to be very low key, initially, but as the more competent progressed, so it would be a ladder for others to climb, as they see their peers succeeding. As you say, an established culture.
As EK quite rightly says, some of those lads had the basics of canine contact, the dogs often made eye contact with their owners, and there may well have been a spark of interest.
The reality, of course, is that it's all a dream, it'll never happen.
For those who draw parallels between the bull type breeds, and other dogs, pointing out that all dogs can be dangerous, you are entirely right, except for one small point, the bull breeds, when their blood's up, have both attitude and the most crushing bite to support it. They can be truly dangerous.
I wish that I wasn't so negative about it all, honestly I do, but I fear that there's nothing good to come from these dogs.
Finally, and as an aside, in the film, the poor little Staffie which was in the cage, was neither aggressive nor dangerous, in my opinion, and there was quite a nice dog in there. The problem was at the other end of the lead.
Alec.