Too castrate or leave him

hudsonw

hudsonw

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Hi...another question regarding my 5 month old collie :)

At 6 months we were going to get him castrated. We don't want to breed from him and we've heard that males can become aggressive if they are left in tact.
However, our pup hasn't shown any signs of aggression to other dogs and there are a couple of dogs down the woods that have their "bits" and are not aggressive and love playing with our pup.

His best mate is a female springer spaniel. He plays with her in the fields on a daily basis and just run & roll around together for hours but she's also only 5 months and it won't be long before she'll come in to season and we are worried about the consequences if they got the urge.

So, is it easier and better for the dog to have the snip or leave him?
 
I don't agree that he will become aggressive, but he will definately feel sexier, so for that reason alone, you should have him done. It is a really simple op for a dog, so don't stress about it, just get him booked in.
 
Agree book him in. All you have to do is look on preloved, e pups of accidental litters and then 6 months down the line quite a few will end up in pounds and rescue, I am sure cayla can pass some advice when she logs in.
 
Sorry in funny mood went into a bootfair on Sunday and there was a sign free to good home lurcher x collies accidental litter on the door of the hall. As dog owners we have a responsability. And although I'm waiting till my pup is 1yr to get him snip a la snipped he will be walked on a lead around other dogs if he starts getting fruity.
 
If it ain't broke, then don't fix it. Your dog is still developing and will not have had his final testosterone surge yet. Yes, he will probably go through a cocky, strutting his stuff period, but this will subside. If you have no behavioural problems now, then leave well alone as removing the testosterone can make a dog fearful. Also, why subject a dog to an unnecessary GA?

With regards to procreation.....I am assuming that you are a responsible dog owner and that your collie is not a 'latch-key' dog. Therefore, there is no reason for him to sire unwanted litters as in-season females have no place being loose off lead in places where other dogs are allowed loose. :D Yes, this will mean that his springer friend is out of bounds for 3-4 weeks when she is in season, but the owner is presumably already aware of this and watching for the signs for her first day of being in season. I am sure that your boy will survive without her for that period of time!

BTW....I have both entire males and females. I do not breed, nor do I produce unwanted litters. It is possible. :D:eek:
 
gunnergundog said:
If it ain't broke, then don't fix it. Your dog is still developing and will not have had his final testosterone surge yet. Yes, he will probably go through a cocky, strutting his stuff period, but this will subside. If you have no behavioural problems now, then leave well alone as removing the testosterone can make a dog fearful. Also, why subject a dog to an unnecessary GA?

With regards to procreation.....I am assuming that you are a responsible dog owner and that your collie is not a 'latch-key' dog. Therefore, there is no reason for him to sire unwanted litters as in-season females have no place being loose off lead in places where other dogs are allowed loose. :D Yes, this will mean that his springer friend is out of bounds for 3-4 weeks when she is in season, but the owner is presumably already aware of this and watching for the signs for her first day of being in season. I am sure that your boy will survive without her for that period of time!

BTW....I have both entire males and females. I do not breed, nor do I produce unwanted litters. It is possible. :D:eek:
Click to expand...

In Caylas absence I will reply to this for her....what an absolute load of bull!
The health benefits alone are a good enough reason to castrate.
As is not having a dog that wants to cock his leg on everything whenever you take it anywhere.
No he may never sire any unwanted litters...then again, he might, why bother taking the risk, isnt it nicer not have to worry about it every time he is let off lead? Saying in season bitches have no right to be anywhere there is other dogs may well be correct but sadly we dont have control over other people and what they do with their dogs.
I can see no reason at all why the OP should keep the dog entire.

ETS
Oh and as for removing testosterone making a dog fearful...never in the world have I ever heard such a thing! Would be interested in the evidence to support this claim.
 
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:eek: Gunnerdog! It is possible with careful management but why take that risk OP? If not intending to breed then get em off!

Admittedly Hector was entire until he was 2 years old as like yours, hadn't shown any interest in girls and was a very placid dog (hence his knickname 'horizontal Hector' :D)
However, reading the posts on here really opened my eyes and I had to ask myself could I 100% guarantee that he would never get the chance to 'catch ' a female? the answer was no even though i'm a very responsible owner. However, we encounter plenty of bitches being walked off lead during thier season and some on a shoot too :eek:

Don't take the risk! :)
 
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From the studies I have read, there are more medical problems engendered by neutering than by not neutering. As Gunnerdog says, you are unlikely to allow him to meander roudn impregnating random dogs, therefore leave well alone.

Your decision, of course, as owner, but if you decide to neuter after researching, then leave him as long as possible so that he is fully grown before you have it done. A vet will tell you to neuter because it's their bread and butter operation and they will tell you about testicular cancer risks. They won't tell you about the other medical issues that may arise if you do neuter.

Worth a read but by no means the only research out there.
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
 
If you do decide to castrate him I would wait until he is at least 12months old before having it done. That way he has had time to grow up, it seems to me that dogs that get "done" early never seem to grow up properly, could be anecdotal of course but I think that they need to get these hormones in their bodies to complete the maturing process, just as we go through awful adolesence!

For a similar reason i would not spay a bitch before her first season, more likely though would wait until after 12months again.
 
Thanks everyone for your advice.
I like to think that we are responsible owners and he's only let off the lead in enclosed fields and with dogs we know or have been introduced to each other while on the lead.
I can't control other people taking their bitches on walks if they are on heat any more than i can control people who let aggressive dogs off their leads or people who have no control over their dogs at all.
All i can do is my part by taking my dog to puppy classes to help teach us obedience, getting him used to other dogs in a safe environment and making sure he can't get himself in the family way!!!
I will however perhaps leave having the op until he's a bit older if this will help him grow and keep him healthy.
He hasn't shown any signs of "fruityness" towards anything except when he gets a bit excited while playing with his space hopper and then his cushion bed can be subject to things it didn't sign up for!!!
 
Had terriers for years and have never castrated or spayed any of them and have not had any problems No such thing as bad dogs only bad owners in my own experience
 
If we're not breeding, we castrate or neuter. Nearly lost a bitch from a pyometra and my dog has had little or no problem with his nether regions since being castrated when he had almost constant UTIs previously.

There's two health reasons!
 
billyslad said:
Had terriers for years and have never castrated or spayed any of them and have not had any problems No such thing as bad dogs only bad owners in my own experience
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A dog going after a bitch on heat doesn't make it a bad dog - it's natural for gods sake!

My old lab was on a walk years ago, no one in sight when he turned and ran in the opposite direction (he was an old boy with poor hips by this point). He had never shown any inclination towards a bitch. I eventually caught up with him 2 1/2 miles away where he was looking mighty pleased with himself standing next to a springer girl who must have had some seriously nice perfume on that day!

It does happen when you least expect it and to those who say they've never had a problem, long may your luck continue!
 
Vizlak-This is not meant at you personally etc. but it is an oft quoted thing the 'health' benefits. Could you elaborate please? The research I have seen suggests that there is not health benefit as assumed in castrating dogs? There is in spaying due to the pyometra risk and mammary tumour risk however.
 
I too am of the wait till they are at least 12 months old camp. But if you know your not going to breed i would have them off after 12 months just for the safety in the knowledge he can't get up to mischief :)
 
The main health benefit to males is the large reduction of prostate problems as they get older. Infection/cancer/enlargement of the prostate.
Personally I'm in favour of neutering after the age of 1 and not before. I think 'most' dogs are still very much developing until that age. However I do know a lot that have been neutered between 6 and 12 months with no apparent ill effects.
 
My dog's prostate was already enlarged at 18 months which is when he was neutered. it doesn't just happen to older dogs - but agree, best to wait until after 12 months or even 18-24 months for giant breeds.
 
Diesel is booked in to be netuered on Thursday he is 2 yrs old. He is quite a randy dog and when visiting bitches call (they are all spayed) he will cock his leg everywhere and make a nuisance of himself with them.

Now he can run a lot faster than me so when we are walking in our fields and he gets a whiff of a bitch in season he will be off. He is normally very obedient but in these circustances nature takes over and I wouldnt blame him.

I do not want him to develop prostrate cancer so as a responsible owner I want the odds in my favour and I dont want bitches being harassed by a 38kg Dobermann.



.
 
I have a stud dog (lab), he is 3 yrs old and has sired 2 litters. In my experience of breeding and having the bitch at my house to be covered, it doesn't happen immediately. In fact the first bitch he covered, it took him 3 days! He was VERY interested in her when she arrived at our house but she told him off (baring in mind she was at the exact right time in her cycle to be covered) and that was that, it took him a good few days to get the confidence to try again!
What I'm trying to say is that you would have to be pretty unlucky to have your dog cover a random bitch whilst out on a walk. If he managed to even mount this random bitch without getting a severe telling off you would still have time to stop it. Unless, the dog legs it miles away to chase down a bitch but again that's gotta be pretty rare?! I also have low fences in my garden (not by choice we live in military accom) that he could easily jump if he so wished and not once has he ever tried to escape and we do have a few un neutered bitches in the area. He knows better than that, he knows NEVER to leave the garden without me. Regardless of how much testosterone he has pumping around.

I've always said if he ever became too much to manage, had any aggression issues his bits would come straight off. But he has the most beautiful temperament and has sired some cracking puppies so he will stay intact. It works for us. Do what works for you!
 
Keep the pupppy as is until or unless he becomes a problem to you!As this is the same puppy who tail chases(?) you should do nothing to draw his attention to the rear end of his body,another ocd can so easily develope. I have known castration to trigger tail chasing in breeds that are predisposed to it..so be cautious. Once done it is too late to regret and put right.
 
Personally i am for castrating dogs (or any animal) that are not going to be bred from. Aside from the health issues/unwanted litters, the dog will encounter bitches in heat etc and the urges will be there whether it uses them or not. I think keeping them entire often leads to frustration and behavioural problems later on.
 
Vizslak said:
In Caylas absence I will reply to this for her....what an absolute load of bull!
The health benefits alone are a good enough reason to castrate.
As is not having a dog that wants to cock his leg on everything whenever you take it anywhere.
No he may never sire any unwanted litters...then again, he might, why bother taking the risk, isnt it nicer not have to worry about it every time he is let off lead? Saying in season bitches have no right to be anywhere there is other dogs may well be correct but sadly we dont have control over other people and what they do with their dogs.
I can see no reason at all why the OP should keep the dog entire.

ETS
Oh and as for removing testosterone making a dog fearful...never in the world have I ever heard such a thing! Would be interested in the evidence to support this claim.
Click to expand...

http://www.cdoca.org/downloads/files/Early SN and Behavior.pdf
I refer you to chart 11 re neutered dogs being more fearful. I also suggest you speak to any APBC behaviourist re aggression cases they have handled that have been made worse by inadvised neutering. There are also instances of fearfulness resulting from the use of tardak and suprelorin (chemical castration.) Indeed, this may be one thing the OP should consider when the dog is older......it is not 100% but at least gives some indication as to the dog they will be left with post-castration and at least this is reversible!! :D

Also, having an entire dog does not mean having a dog that cocks its leg everywhere. There is an element of learning in all unwanted sexual dimorphic behaviours, be it humping, marking or whatever. Castration alone does not cure these; training however can and does. Unfortunately, most people are not prepared to put in the time and effort and try to go for what they think is a 'quick fix'.

As for health benefits......the jury is still out re prostrate....there are studies both for and against that I have read. The only reason castration eliminates testicular cancer is because it removes the testes! :D

I repeat again.....if it ain't broke, why fix it.....or attempt to?
 
Actually, the studies I have read dispell the prostate infeciton/enlargement risk somewhat-unneutered dogs are possibly mroe prone to benign prostate enlargement, not cancer, and it also occurs in neutered dogs so not a good health reason.Prostate cancer and infection are no longer thought to be a problem associated with not neutering. I will go and find the study now.
Neutered dogs are also more likely to develop something, I shall have to look it up, so its a very even toss up with neither situations giving any more health benefits than the other.
 
Only had a quick look at the paper but I will let you know if Diesel changes personality after Thursdayand he suddenly becomes dog/stranger aggressive.

I suspect these dogs would have developed these behaviours anyway it dosnt account for breeding as in blood lines or in owner training or lack of it.


Diesel is still going to be neutered on Thursday on advise from several vets.
 
I can assure you neutering my dog was not a quick fix, I put a tonne of training on him as well and that combined has made him a healthier, less aggressive, nicer dog to be around :) each to their own.....plus he isn't breeding material and neither are any of the litter he came from, that I've seen, IMO.
 
I think i would always castrate a male dog now as i would not have any intention of breeding from any dog i owned and I think if you don't want to breed from your dog then it makes everyone's life easier having it castrated. We geld horses pretty much as a matter of course - it's a shame you can't neuter mares really as this would reduce the numbers of people who think it's a "fantastic idea" to breed from their mare when it can no longer be ridden! But that's a whole other thread.

we had our current dog (now aged 14) castrated late on (mainly due to my dad's reluctance to have him done) but it hasn't changed him. The reason he was castrated was because he just got worse and worse as he got older for wanting to find a bitch - to the extent that one time he disappeared all night and we found he had crossed a main road and gone to the other side of the village to sit outside someone's house whose bitch was on heat! There was then the 'accidental puppies' as a result again of him getting out and meeting with another neigbour's bitch who was also desperate to find a mate!!! Needless to say finally my dad was persuaded to have him done.

The change was great - no more stressed, howling dog for nights on end and his personality did not change one bit.

In the past we did lose another entire male dog who, again as he matured got more keen to breed as it were and sadly he sneaked out one time and was killed on the main road. I would never want to go through that again. Maybe we have just been unlucky. our dogs were well trained and obedient but both were collie crosses and highly intelligent, sneaky buggers and if they spotted an opportunity to get out they would!

So, i would say - get him done!!!
 
Could someone explain to me why it is, that a castrated dog has a back end which wastes away? and why does the masculine head, tilt towards a feminine appearance? I still look at some dogs, when they approach me, and wonder if they are a bitch, then as they pass, obviously they aren't!

I have never, and would never castrate a dog for my own convenience. I'm with gunnerdog on this one. With the exception of it being on medical grounds, I fail to see the point of emasculating a dog.

Alec.
 
I think the health benefits of neutering are less than if the dog is whole, according to studies I've come across. Always willing to learn, though, so please point out more I can read.:)

Jake was interested in girls but was easily dissuaded and never left our sight on walks. Brig, now 8, memorably humped someone once, bless and has zero interest in other dogs. He lives to hunt. He and Jake never cocked their legs in the house (he still squats at home) nor did they ever exhibit aggression. I considered neutering Brig because he was forever being attacked and I reckoned that was due to being whole. However, the vet advised against it.

Having read several studies and seeing that he is socialised and has never been aggressive, he can stay as is, so can the pups.

If it solves an aggression issue, do it, but otherwise, please do some research and understand why you're doing it, not just cos the vet (s) told you so. Your dog, your choice, but don't do it because 'I was told I should'. I'm all for responsible ownership, but that might mean keeping your dog close in certain circumstances.

That horses are gelded is not the same. I would not want 500kg of rampant stallion that can't be turned out or crashes through fences to get to a mare. A 20kg dog I can leash.:)
 
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