Too much protein? Which balancer?

[kirstie]

Hi, I haven't posted in here before but need a bit of advice.
I have a 17hh 7yr old Trakehner. She is in medium work, dressage horse.
Currently she goes out for 6.5 hrs a day on good grazing, and has 18lbs of good quality hay in the afternoon/ night. (always a bit let over in the morning)
She has 3/4 scoop of alfa A, 1lb of Baileys conditioning cubes and a heaped mug of coolstance copra twice a day.
She looks great on this at the moment but I am aware that the goodness from the grass will soon be dwindling and she is prone to dropping off in the winter.
I was thinking of adding a balancer, maybe Baileys performance balancer but with the copra i think it will be too much protein.

I can always up the hay and hard feed, but want to make sure her diet is well balanced. Does anyone have any advice?
Thanks!

 

[Mike007]

I would leave the diet alone. What you are doing is fine.

 

[wingedhorse]

Copra a mugful (soaked or unsoaked volume) isnt very much for a 17hh horse.

Yes Copra is 20% protein but you arent feeding very much by weight - http://www.stanceequine.com.au/horsefeedproducts.php?CoolStance-Horse-Feed-2

I would have thought you would be wise, and okay to add a balancer at full rations.

An alternative would be full rations of a vit and mineral supplement instead e.g. Benevit Advance or similar.

At the moment you arent adding sufficient vits and minerals, feeding 1lb of conditioning cubes is under half a stubbs scoop. Copra and alfa A are unfortified / unbalanced feeds. So there isnt something providing all her vitamin and mineral needs.

 

[kirstie]

Thanks. She was a bit overweight coming out of summer, she didn't get any hard feed then. I will up everything if she needs it.
She will be on more copra and conditioning cubes in the winter and will add a balancer as well.
Just not sure which one!

 

[sbloom]

Personally I'd swap the cubes for a balancer, and I'd try Top Spec first - some horses do get hot or footy on it but not many and it doe shave a great vit/min profile. The I'd feed straights - copra, beet, and the Alfa A. You can do the calculation to ensure the amount of protein is okay, personally if it's good quality protein then generally horses cope with it fine. Only already liver damaged horses actually have a problem with too much protein.

 

[Mike007]

At the moment you arent adding sufficient vits and minerals, feeding 1lb of conditioning cubes is under half a stubbs scoop. Copra and alfa A are unfortified / unbalanced feeds. So there isnt something providing all her vitamin and mineral needs.

I think you might be overlooking the 18 lbs of good hay!

 

[Mike007]

Only already liver damaged horses actually have a problem with too much protein.

Quite possibly the most wrong comment on feeding I have seen on this forum.
Some 25 years ago there was a fad in racing for high protein feed,the horses were OK for a while then they went down like flies ,with liver and kidney problems. Deaminating a lot of unusable protein puts a lot of strain on the system. (and the remainder of the molecule is a sugar, the thing that most people try to avoid feeding).

 

[sbloom]

HOW high a level of protein? I'd like to know, and to see the research. The research and writing I've read (not about racehorses which as you've previously pointed out are not like feeding other horses) only an alfalfa hay diet caused issues and much of that was to do with the excess minerals in the diet rather than the protein per se. Protein is not a good source of enerfy but a small overfeeding of protein, from my reading, is not cited in any kidney and liver problems. And as I said protein QUALITY is most important - sometimes you can switch some of the protein from low to high quality, carry on feeding just as much, and the horse metabolises it better, so you do not smell such strong ammonia in the urine, as you will when feeding the low quality urine. In the real world, with normal grass hay and most bucket feeds, owners will not be overfeeding protein to the level that it will cause problems.