Topping buttercups in field

[sjdress]

My horse has developed a dry cough and I think it may be the buttercups, more than usual this year. It's too late to spray now so does anyone know if it is safe enough for me to top them and leave her off for a week or two for them to die off and then put her back out there?

 

[Dry Rot]

I think you'll find buttercups are best sprayed when they are in flower -- but I might be wrong! Check with your agrochemical supplier or agricultural college. Google?

 

[sjdress]

Spraying isn't really an option so just need to know that they are ok to top and then continue grazing.

 

[be positive]

Spraying isn't really an option so just need to know that they are ok to top and then continue grazing.

I have just had my fields topped and the horses are grazing on them, I have never had a problem doing this.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Spraying isn't really an option so just need to know that they are ok to top and then continue grazing.

Why is it not an option? Buttercups are often found where management practices encourage buttercups, usually overgrazing for years. So you need to change management.
You can top them if you want, but if you are able to keep them off the field for three weeks, you have the option of spraying. I think if you top, the plants will probably respond by sending up more flower shoots, they are unlike thistles which have only one main stem and one flower stalk per year. Topping is in effect replicating grazing, which is what is encouraging the buttercups.
I think I would test the soil and if fairly acid, I would lime the field [with dolomite if low in magnesium], if it is not acid then I would lightly dress with a horse related fertiliser to encourage the grass.
If you continue with current land management you will keep getting the same issues year on year.
I would not top and graze immediately, as I believe they are poisonous [certainly bitter and for this reason are not eaten by horses], a few buttercups might be OK, but I am not sure about a lot of buttercups in a field with limited grass. I don't think anyone will have a definitive answer, but that is my judgement.
If you lime you need to wait until heavy rain has washed it in to the soil. Ditto fertiliser.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I think you'll find buttercups are best sprayed when they are in flower -- but I might be wrong! Check with your agrochemical supplier or agricultural college. Google?

Most selective herbicides are effective when used at the three leaf stage of the weed, ie when small not when mature.

 

[Dry Rot]

The recent consensus of opinion appears to be that liming does not discourage buttercups. When you get lime it usually comes in lorry loads and transport is a major cost, so it makes sense to put it on by the load rather than exactly to the tonne. My land was, if anything, 'over limed' but the buttercups still flourished. I sprayed last year and they are almost gone this year. My land is also pretty well drained and naturally alkaline but it is probably over grazed. Get it sprayed! Topping will be a waste of time. Just my opinion.

 

[Red-1]

When we bought our land it looked like a field of Rape there were so many buttercups.

We did spray for the first couple of years, and that did cut the numbers, but since then we top every 2 weeks and that seems to keep the numbers in check.

I am not sure that topping once will help, it is the topping every 2 weeks that stops the flowers and stops them reproducing. We top before the yellow flowers come back so they do not reproduce.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

The recent consensus of opinion appears to be that liming does not discourage buttercups. When you get lime it usually comes in lorry loads and transport is a major cost, so it makes sense to put it on by the load rather than exactly to the tonne. My land was, if anything, 'over limed' but the buttercups still flourished. I sprayed last year and they are almost gone this year. My land is also pretty well drained and naturally alkaline but it is probably over grazed. Get it sprayed! Topping will be a waste of time. Just my opinion.

Well you see, if your soil is naturally alkaline [probably on chalk], it would not need liming [calcium carbonate/chalk], so it is not surprising it had no effect.
Round here [Scotland] the typical buttercup field is acid [usually on boulder clay] wet, over-grazed and under-managed, so liming is effective, but so is rotating fields.

 

[Dry Rot]

Most selective herbicides are effective when used at the three leaf stage of the weed, ie when small not when mature.

I have just done my revision on The Farming Forum and buttercups are unusual in that they are most susceptible at the flowering stage so the above statement is incorrect.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

When we bought our land it looked like a field of Rape there were so many buttercups.

We did spray for the first couple of years, and that did cut the numbers, but since then we top every 2 weeks and that seems to keep the numbers in check.

I am not sure that topping once will help, it is the topping every 2 weeks that stops the flowers and stops them reproducing. We top before the yellow flowers come back so they do not reproduce.

I am not convinced, there are several types of buttercup, the creeping buttercup spreads by roots, for example. By preventing flowering you may just be encouraging more root growth.
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=784

Weeds have several strategies to ensure they out-compete their rivals.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I have just done my revision on The Farming Forum and buttercups are unusual in that they are most susceptible at the flowering stage so the above statement is incorrect.

The statement that most weeds are best treated when young is correct, but it seems buttercups are different, so OP can spray now if practical. However, there are different types of buttercups, and some will respond to weedkillers when young because of their large leaves at that age......
I don't really like using weedkillers on land grazed by horses and would alter the bad management practices. Which may be difficult but not impossible. If there is not enough land for the number of horses then the solution is clear: less horses/more land/ supplementary feeding of hay in feed lots

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Dry Rot, There is another thread about this, and the buttercup factsheet [horse related]has this [conflicting] advice:

...............

Buttercups can be killed by spraying, but spraying should be done when the buttercups are actively growing, usually at the rosette stage and before flowering, .... repeat applications may be required as it is difficult to get control from just one application. Grass should be encouraged to grow which may require applying low levels of appropriate fertiliser. It is essential to remove horses from pasture for at least two weeks following application of chemicals or fertilisers to ensure the pasture is safe.

 

[Dry Rot]

Well you see, if your soil is naturally alkaline [probably on chalk]. it would not need liming [calcium carbonate/chalk], so it is not surprising it had no effect.
Round here [Scotland] the typical buttercup field is wet, over-grazed and under-managed, so liming is effective, but so is rotating fields.

Even alkaline soil will occasionally need liming as lime is soluble and will be leached out by rainfall and removed from the top soil in farming as crops, meat, and bone. I do not apply lime to my fields in a haphazard fashion but get a soil test done by the local agricultural college. Lime is expensive.

I don't know what the source of the your information is but I think you could benefit from posting your questions on a farming forum where the members rely on getting it right for their livelihood rather than a horsey forum where some are more intent on scoring points!

 

[sjdress]

It isn't my field and so that why spraying isn't an option. I am only renting for a few months through summer to rest my own field. So I just need to know that topping the field and putting horse back out there will not cause her any harm?

 

[Red-1]

I am not convinced, there are several types of buttercup, the creeping buttercup spreads by roots, for example. By preventing flowering you may just be encouraging more root growth.
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=784

Weeds have several strategies to ensure they out-compete their rivals.

I guess we must be lucky then in not having creepy buttercups

It may also be that we graze less than the previous owners. We do still have them, but it is a grass field now with some buttercups rather than a Rape field. I don't like spraying the field either.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Even alkaline soil will occasionally need liming as lime is soluble and will be leached out by rainfall and removed from the top soil in farming as crops, meat, and bone. I do not apply lime to my fields in a haphazard fashion but get a soil test done by the local agricultural college. Lime is expensive.

I don't know what the source of the your information is but I think you could benefit from posting your questions on a farming forum where the members rely on getting it right for their livelihood rather than a horsey forum where some are more intent on scoring points!

Well I wasted my time at Agricultural College, then as an agricultural adviser to farmers, later farming in Yorkshire. I am not scoring points, I am giving my opinion based on my scientific and practical knowledge.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

It isn't my field and so that why spraying isn't an option. I am only renting for a few months through summer to rest my own field. So I just need to know that topping the field and putting horse back out there will not cause her any harm?

There is no way anyone can be 100% certain, you can't even be sure that it is the buttercups that are causing the problem. If your horse happens to be extremely sensitive to buttercups for example, you cannot be sure that he will be OK with topping, even if that was OK for many horses, and the buttercups will still be there, still growing.
There can be no way to be 100% certain of anything, there will be other plants which may be causing a problem, even pollens in the air.
All I can say is what I would do if I wanted to top in an unknown field, is to inspect every square yard for ragwort, then top and leave for a few weeks then inspect for mouldy colic causing grass clumps and death causing ragwort, then put horse back on field.
Is it practical to change to a non buttercup field?
Most people who top fields regularly do this without removing the horses, if that helps.
You can't ever spray and graze, but you can usually top and graze

 

[Goldenstar]

I control my buttercups by topping it does not eradicate them but it does knock them back .
I find you need to top them the first time just when they get tall and are flowering I think because they have put all their energy into growing up and the flowers if you then knock them back the grass gets a fighting chance to grow and compete .
I never ever let the horse graze the topped buttercups I do this on veterinary advice that buttercups are irritant and they have had a case were grazing topped buttercups caused fitting in a horse .
Poaching and lack of grazing breaks seems to be what buttercups like best when the grass Is struggling they really get going .
My winter field is worse for buttercups this field had part of it taken off to form the grass schooling area there where a lot of buttercups .
No spraying was used we harrowed and rolled and mowed and mowed and mowed in first summer there noticeably fewer in second practically none and that's how it stayed .
I took from this that poaching and overuse fuels buttercup growth so I tweaked how I care for the summer fields we now apply suregrow in the spring and this gives the grass more chance to grow strongly and compete .
I wait about extra two weeks before moving the horses to give the grass a bit longer to grow .
And we rotate a little more often to give the fields a break in summer .

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Just in case I gave the wrong impression in my last post, personally I would never top and graze a buttercup infested field AND if my horse was already having problems I would not let him back on the field till I was sure there were no residual, dry, cut buttercups to be seen.

 

[taraj]

We had to top the buttercups in one of my horses paddocks as he has a very pink sensitive nose. We followed the topper with a rake and a few wheelbarrows and raked up the worst of the buttercups! Its not ideal for a large area (this was about and acre)but I do able! The only other option was to put him in another paddock with too much lush grass.

 

[Dry Rot]

Well I wasted my time at Agricultural College, then as an agricultural adviser to farmers, later farming in Yorkshire. I am not scoring points, I am giving my opinion based on my scientific and practical knowledge.

So you have a diploma?

Ah, but I have a degree AND a diploma!

Beyond that I am too polite to comment.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

So you have a diploma?

Ah, but I have a degree AND a diploma!

Beyond that I am too polite to comment.

As it happens I have two Diplomas, a degree , and two post graduate diplomas, but I don't want to boast [I still have my two bronze medals as top UK student in Dairying and in Animal Husbandry].

Bonkers2 BA, SDDH, NDD, PGDip IT, PgDip IM

Dry Rot: 2 Bonkers: 5++

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

OP, yes you can top and put horse back.
However, i would advise raking as much as you csn, up.


TFF, had experience of buttercups and tried different methods

 

[Dry Rot]

Here is a thread with the experiences of farmers who have actually gone out and sprayed buttercups. You may have to regioster to read it.

http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/spraying-buttercups.21178/

I could probably find another about liming if I could be bothered to look.

Not long ago there was a thread on here pointing out that the directions for use on a certain pesticide should be ignored as it is NOT safe to return horses to a field after spraying ragwort (as was stated on the directions) as the dead plants are still poisonous. So I would not believe the instructions posted above by Bonkers to spray before buttercups have flowered. I tend to follow the advice of those who have done it and know what works. I certainly regard the advice of "advisers" with the greatest suspicion, especially those from DEFRA!

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I certainly regard the advice of "advisers" with the greatest suspicion, especially those from DEFRA!

Why does that not surprise me lol
I am dealing with buttercups every week, being a hands on person these days.
Perhaps you should re-read my posts [ ........... hands DR the right end of the stick to grasp]

 

[Clodagh]

We had to top the buttercups in one of my horses paddocks as he has a very pink sensitive nose. We followed the topper with a rake and a few wheelbarrows and raked up the worst of the buttercups! Its not ideal for a large area (this was about and acre)but I do able! The only other option was to put him in another paddock with too much lush grass.

That is a good idea.
I am borrowing a friends slitter this year to hopefully aereate the soil as I heard impaction helps buttercups and the field they are worst on is rarely rested.

 

[ester]

We are on chalk, and the owners insisted that they top to reduce numbers - I pointed out was figment of imagination as they just take the flowers off so you can't see them! And given that they have runners so don't need to seed.....

This year we had at least 3x the amount

 

[Dry Rot]

Why does that not surprise me lol
I am dealing with buttercups every week, being a hands on person these days.
Perhaps you should re-read my posts [ ........... hands DR the right end of the stick to grasp]

If you did it right the first time (like I did last year), you wouldn't have any buttercupos to spend time on every week!

I'll read your posts in bed tonight. Should help me sleep. <yawn>

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

If you did it right the first time (like I did last year), you wouldn't have any buttercupos to spend time on every week!

I'll read your posts in bed tonight. Should help me sleep. <yawn>

I don't usually rise to the bait, but I think you are a very rude person.