Topping fields and excess grass......

[L&M]

We have a small paddock that we predominately keep for winter.

We normally have it topped in May, but have only managed to borrow a tractor this week to do it, and the grass was longer than normal (not quite a hay meadow, but not far off). My partner tried to top it as high as possible.......

The field is too large too rake off the toppings by hand, but there is too much lying grass to risk putting the horses on it to clear it.

My concern is will the toppings ruin the grass underneath, or should we just be patient and let nature sort itself out? We don't anticipate grazing it until at least after the clocks change.

Any advice please?

 

[JennBags]

I did this last year but much later in the year and it was a big mistake. A few people suggested I should have had it topped a couple more times, to mulch it all up so it would rot down quicker

 

[twiggy2]

It will hold back what is growing underneath and rot it you are best to get it baled and removed.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I had this issue last year when they basically mowed one of my Paddocks in September just as I wanted to moved onto it. It had about 8 months growth on it. I was then unable to use it I was able to get the estate to bring in a machine that piled up the grass and then they picked it up with a bucket loader. It wasn’t suitable for baling. I posted a picture at the time ( I think in response to Jennbags thread but I’m not sure where it is.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Found it!

 

[JanetGeorge]

Grass topping doesn't carry the risk that lawn mower clippings do. I often top when horses are in a field - especially when there are a lot of creeping thistles. The smart horses quickly figure out the advantage and follow the topper picking up the thistles from the bottom. If it's a very heavy drop, try getting a farmer in to turn it - or at least harrow. Within a week, it will just be loose hay. Horses will prefer the young regrowth, but they'll clear up a bit of the 'hay' and shuffle it around so it doesn't sit in the same place too long.

 

[windand rain]

Depends on why you are topping I use long grass as foggage and strip graze onto it but if you are topping to rid yourself of rich grass you will just encourage it to be even richer. The fallen grass will boost the new grass provided it is able to dry out completely before you get a soggy mess so you will end up with new sweeter and richer grass as it tries again to get to seeding stage

 

[Goldenstar]

If this happens to use I use the horses to graze it then I top it .

 

[southerncomfort]

I decided not to top the winter paddock this year. The grass is so tall that it's going dry and stalky now.

Same as poster above I'm going to strip graze and use it as standing foggage.

 

[L&M]

Thanks guys - we have another larger winter paddock that we do let grow to standing hay.

The smaller paddock is a rented one and we feel obliged to keep it looking neat and tidy, and does grow a lot of docks if not topped. Normally we would have put horses on it, even just to rest the other fields, for a few weeks in growing season, but like everyone else, we have grass coming out of our ears atm so haven't needed too.

We moved some of the larger clumps of grass by hand yesterday, and just hoping the weather stays hot and dry and will run the harrow through it to see if that helps.

 

[L&M]

If this happens to use I use the horses to graze it then I top it .

Our other problem is that our horses are very good doers, so have been on restricted grazing since April! Could do with a herd of sheep or skinny horses to help out!

 

[southerncomfort]

One year we did actually collect up all the toppings by hand to keep as extra hay.

Never again! Absolutely back breaking!

 

[Goldenstar]

If it stays hot and dry you should get away with it .

 

[MyBoyChe]

Very timely thread..my YO decided to top the bit of field I was resting last week. I have to restrict his intake so strip graze all summer and then through winter move bit by bit onto what would have been standing foggage! It is now lying in clumps all over the place with lovely new shoots coming through so completely undone all my efforts. I have been raking it over to dry out and will collect some up in spare haynets, the rest will just get slung on the muck heap. Will take me even longer now to move pony onto it though

 

[TPO]

We've got got borrowed cattle arriving in a couple of weeks to graze down the really long grass and clean up the grazing a bit. We dont have anything to top the grass with currently so this is the solution.

Our grazing is a nightmare as its mainly clover (last owner seeded for their horses- clover and rye 😬) so there has been a lot of time spent in the dry lot with hay ad all 3 are good doers.

Once the cattle are off the big field it'll be left to grow back and will be their winter turnout on the long stuff that grows back.

We've got the dry paddock and 3 other paddocks that they'll be rotating around meanwhile.

 

[Goldenstar]

We've got got borrowed cattle arriving in a couple of weeks to graze down the really long grass and clean up the grazing a bit. We dont have anything to top the grass with currently so this is the solution.

Our grazing is a nightmare as its mainly clover (last owner seeded for their horses- clover and rye 😬) so there has been a lot of time spent in the dry lot with hay ad all 3 are good doers.

Once the cattle are off the big field it'll be left to grow back and will be their winter turnout on the long stuff that grows back.

We've got the dry paddock and 3 other paddocks that they'll be rotating around meanwhile.

You should consider spraying out the clover , I have had to do this a couple of times

 

[TPO]

You should consider spraying out the clover , I have had to do this a couple of times

There is too much of it, they literally seeded the whole place with it and a side of rye 🙈 plus we don't want to kill the bees.

The only way to get rid of clover properly is to plough and reseed. That's the plan going forward, as well as change the field/fencing layout, but my parents seem to think that building their house takes priority over fields and a school?! 🤷🏼‍♀️ however it's in the pipeline for 2020

 

[Goldenstar]

I get a contractor to do it .

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I had some success with topping, overseeding and fertilising to greatly reduce clover-although it goes against the grain having horses and fertilising, it helps the grass compete. So glad I don't have to deal with it now, clover is awful when you have greedy natives.

as for bees, do what I do and encourage dandelions, burdock and thistles

 

[Goldenstar]

There is too much of it, they literally seeded the whole place with it and a side of rye 🙈 plus we don't want to kill the bees.

The only way to get rid of clover properly is to plough and reseed. That's the plan going forward, as well as change the field/fencing layout, but my parents seem to think that building their house takes priority over fields and a school?! 🤷🏼‍♀️ however it's in the pipeline for 2020

You can reduce it to reasonable levels by spraying very very easily .
In these days of saving the bees removing clover ought not to be our goal on grazing land .
I like to spray then give the fields some suregrow CSM that helps the grass a lot .
I have been doing it this way for thirty years .
Ploughing makes a god awful mess and it’s years before the sward recovers it’s much better to improve and engineer what you have .
I reseed using a meadow mix often by hand in the spring or autumn depending on how we are using the land .
I have one field where I will need to give the clover a fright next year it’s certainly more than decade since I did it last time .
So next spring I will spray it out and give the grass CSM I am considering splashing out and adding a expensive meadow mix with wild flowers to the field as it rests mid April till mid September so it could be topped a little later to allow the flowers to seed .

 

[TPO]

I get a contractor to do it .

It'll be the neighbour that does the ploughing and reseeding. Dad's farming stock but it's too big a job for his wee tractor; that's for harrowing and rolling as well as trips to dump the dung!

I had some success with topping, overseeding and fertilising to greatly reduce clover-although it goes against the grain having horses and fertilising, it helps the grass compete. So glad I don't have to deal with it now, clover is awful when you have greedy natives.

as for bees, do what I do and encourage dandelions, burdock and thistles

The big field and all our verges are "wild" plus "bee bombs" have been planted in the gardens. The clover is literally buzzing with them. The fields haven't been seeded or fertilised in approx 3yrs and had sheep on them for 18mths until last July. We've not got the machinery to top the big field and cattle will do a better job cleaning it up, that way the new stuff can grow through so we're ready for winter turnout.

It's not suitable for fertilizing because theres not enough grass to compete against the clover and clover would go supersonic if fed! It's not a great network or mesh or grass so hopefully will get big field done next spring and try to oversow the smaller paddocks with meadow mix.

The plan, if they stay after house build, is to change the whole configuration so that it's a track system. Bailey had head issues so a muzzle isnt great for him mentally and neither is being seperate from the others. Trying to manage everything is a logistical nightmare!

This was the big field when we arrived at the end of July last year- perfect with standing hay




This is it this year without sheep (the blob in the background is dad fencing off a strip so we can start strip grazing. The fence lines dont go to the trees; it looks bigger than it is in this pic)




Then we have the "dry lot" which is a small paddock around 2 sides of the shed that goes out to the big field at the top and the three paddocks at the other side. It was destroyed with the wet so is now "dry lot" where Bailey lives with hay most of the time.

Then we have 3 equal sized paddocks that they rotate around so that one is always being rested but with this weather (& blocked field drains) it's been a nightmare to manage. That's them in the middle with access to the top (clearly have a hard life!) while bottom paddock rests.


Guinea pigs are the future!!!!

 

[TPO]

You can reduce it to reasonable levels by spraying very very easily .
In these days of saving the bees removing clover ought not to be our goal on grazing land .
I like to spray then give the fields some suregrow CSM that helps the grass a lot .
I have been doing it this way for thirty years .
Ploughing makes a god awful mess and it’s years before the sward recovers it’s much better to improve and engineer what you have .
I reseed using a meadow mix often by hand in the spring or autumn depending on how we are using the land .
I have one field where I will need to give the clover a fright next year it’s certainly more than decade since I did it last time .
So next spring I will spray it out and give the grass CSM I am considering splashing out and adding a expensive meadow mix with wild flowers to the field as it rests mid April till mid September so it could be topped a little later to allow the flowers to seed .

Each to their own. Dad's from farming stock and has farmed since he fitted into wellies so I'll go with what he says. Both he and mum have also attended addition lectures about grass management for horses (equicentral) and that's the path that they are choosing to move in.

The clover will be removed ultimately but we have chosen not to do it in a way that will kill wildlife. It'll be reseeded with meadow mixes and handily one of my friends is a grass merchant. She is horsey and there's not much about soil that she doesn't know so sorted that way.

 

[Goldenstar]

That’s a lot of clover ,
How’s the acidity lime might be the thing .

 

[TPO]

The last owners seeded thr whole place with clover and a touch of rye especially for their dressage horses 😬

I'm not as clued up as dad but I dont think the ground is acidic as clover doesnt do well in acidic soil and clover also something to the nitrogen? Liming is usually the go to for acidic ground and/or that had a buttercup problem which is also linked to nitrogen in a way that I cant remember (last livery yard had VERY horse sick grazing due to no maintenance and was basically buttercups, weeds and docks). I dont think lime would help in this instance and dad is very firm that ploughing is the only way to properly get rid of all that clover.

 

[Goldenstar]

Btw for anyone following the thread you spray pastures to control clover early in the season before the pastures have flowers ( any type ) in them to minimise any damage to the bees .
So here that’s mid April just as the clover gets going but is way off flowering .

 

[MotherOfChickens]

The last owners seeded thr whole place with clover and a touch of rye especially for their dressage horses 😬

I'm not as clued up as dad but I dont think the ground is acidic as clover doesnt do well in acidic soil and clover also something to the nitrogen? Liming is usually the go to for acidic ground and/or that had a buttercup problem which is also linked to nitrogen in a way that I cant remember (last livery yard had VERY horse sick grazing due to no maintenance and was basically buttercups, weeds and docks). I dont think lime would help in this instance and dad is very firm that ploughing is the only way to properly get rid of all that clover.

clover fixes nitrogen from the atmosphere -this is how it can outcompete grass in poor/lacking soils as grass can't do this and so clover has the advantage. when clover dies it releases nitrogen into the soil and so can improve the soil for grass that way which is why farmers like it in the sward but there's an optimum clover/grass ratio.
spraying for clover has the same effect, as the clover dies it improves nitrogen levels for grass. fertilising can give grass growth a boost and coupled with topping clover (and the topped clover dying/breaking down) gives grass 1/2 chance to catch up. Not banging on that that is what you should do , but that is the very oversimplified science of it.

any kind of poor soil i.e. acidic can lead to clover -also buttercup and daisies. good luck, thats a lot of clover, what the hell were they thinking?!

 

[TPO]

They wanted "good" grazing for competition horses 😉😬

 

[windand rain]

I have foud over the years that the ponies dont like clover much but will eat it if nothing else is about. When I stripgrazed onto it the fact they ate it to the floor gradually killed it off we do have a small amount now but it used to be like OPs now its mostly grass

 

[Goldenstar]

They wanted "good" grazing for competition horses 😉😬

Oh dear

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I have foud over the years that the ponies dont like clover much but will eat it if nothing else is about. When I stripgrazed onto it the fact they ate it to the floor gradually killed it off we do have a small amount now but it used to be like OPs now its mostly grass

the only mild lammi episode I had was with clover and my first Exmoor-he was a greedy little git and loved it. The lusitano got photosensitivity around his heels and mouth from eating around it. I loathe it, awful stuff.