TopSpec? Magic Calmer? Magnitude? Or all a load of rubbish!

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squidsin

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I've been looking into horse calmers (although frankly it would probably help if I took them rather than my horse) for my somewhat neurotic new mare. Do any of them work? I've been reading about magnesium deficiency and she does exhibit the symptoms, although as she's a new horse, that could just be her personality! You can't feed too much magnesium, can you? Is it just excreted if so? The owner of my local equine supplies recommended TopSpec. Any thoughts? I definitely want something natural as I don't know enough about equine nutrition to mess around with anything else. Thanks in advance!
 
Please tell us the reasons why you think you (or your horse :p ) require it :)


I only ask as you say she is a "new horse" so is maybe just needing time to settle rather than a chemical imbalance.

My big lad is s figit with farrirers. We are getting there, slowly but surely. He has had a full syreinge of Magic calm 1 hour prior to farrier arriving, and it didnt even make him blink....
 
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IMHO calmers don't work. I tried Nupafeed on my stupid WBxTB and it made no difference at all. Some horses are just a bit more sensitive to things.
 
I just thought it might take the edge off her settling in. I've actually always thought calmers for humans were a load of b*llocks (although a glass of booze actually does do the trick! A bit too much sometimes though) so I don't know why I am considering this really! In the cold light of day, I'm a bit reluctant to give her magnesium, as this is something I think she should be getting enough of naturally. She was really jumpy yesterday but that was probably because the farrier was in, shoeing the other horses (she was done last week) - that would also explain why she shot across her stable every time I tried to pick her hooves out. She can be a bit spooky but not overtly so really. So, what would calm ME down? I have a terrible case of new/first time horse owner nerves! ;)
 
These magnesium based calmers are a bit of snake oil really

If your horse is deficient in a particular mineral you'll see a difference when you supplement that - magnesium for instance, or copper improving the sole.

If your horse isn't deficient then you are putting money in the manure heap.

That's why these products are random and seem to work for some horses and not others.

Anyway I think it is irresponsible marketing that leads owners to believe that they are safer because this product will "calm their horse". At best it is false expectation being set for the owner, at worst a partially sedated horse is a dangerous and unpredictable horse (valerian etc).
 
Definately not looking to disagree with anyone, but I use Top Spec calmer, having spent years with a very spooky pony who could take fright at his own shadow, was a nightmare to train as anything new caused tension and at worst rearing. Since he's been on the calmer he is trainable, still hot and sharp but now with inbuilt 'thinking' time where before he reacted first and thought after! He copes well with shows now and is able to enjoy himself showing off without boiling over. He has always had a balancer so he *shouldn't* have been deficient in anything, and none of my other ponies who share the same field/hay etc show signs of silly spookiness. I definately wouldn't say he is sedated in any way, and wouldn't wish him to be - I can only report what both I and my trainer have seen in him.:)
 
Having endured a very lengthy box resting horse I have tried many of both the 'over the counter' and 'vet only' products.

In my view you need to look at the whole picture rather than just thinking the horse is gassy or stressed or just pig ignorant, and then consider the feed and environment. So many so called cool mixes are full of barley and mollasses. Some haylages will be rocket fuel. I have a horse at the moment that is silly on my haylage, but put onto soaked hay reverts to polite and nice to ride.

Top Spec kept the lid on a fit show horse competing at county level. Magic was tried without success.

Tempralax was used in the ultra charged atmosphere of HOY's with success on the horse and me - Remember to close your own mouth when administering a liquid calmer to a 17.2 on the NEC carpark. He had 3/4 of it and I had the 1/4 - I was away with the fairies and he put in the performance of the season.

Zyklene was a total failure but Vetplus Calmex worked a treat on the box rester leaving him chilled and easy.

I am using Magnitude on the box rester now he is out in a tiny paddock and it is making a big difference, the bonus being it is cheap.
 
Balancers are part of the problem - often too high in digestible energy for the particular horse

I'd never use a compounded "balancer" - how can they be "balanced" if you don;t know that your horse has enough of it in their diet anyway? May even be over-supplementing!

He has always had a balancer so he *shouldn't* have been deficient in anything
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Oh dear , I feel like I've got up your nose!!:rolleyes:

My ponies all have balancers as they are all good doers and are thus on restricted diets - brownie points for not having fatties please brucea! - but I don't want to make them deficient in anything!:)
 
Personally I think they are a waste of money, before they were invented we never needed them and I don't use them on my horse. I think good feeding, management and training are the best calmer ;).
Saying that if they make people feel better then who am I to tell them what to spend their money on. My mum feeds her horse Nupafeed at £65 a pop I think shes barking but she is adamant it works. Personally I think her horse is calm because he's happy, fed and worked right but hey ho! The only time he started getting spooky was when he had not been ridden for 6 weeks, my mum thought it was because she had run out of calmer...
Anyway.. my point being is you could try a calmer but before spending the ££ i'd get her into a routine, give her lots of hay and fibre food, get her teeth ect doing so you know she is 100% comfortable, worm ect and start exercising her and getting to know her. If she is fresh stick her on the lunge for 10 mins before you get on and try and do some form of exercise with her most days and i'm sure you will find that as you get to know each other she will settle and won't need a calmer :).
 
Surely it all depends on why your horse is excitable? Check stable, routine, handling etc. are not a cause. If it's a magnesium deficiency pure mag ox will do. If it's a general mineral deficiency or imbalance try a decent no sugar balancer. One thing to add anyway is salt. Licks aren't enough generally. Also, does she have enough forage or run out? If grazing is poor look at feeding hay in the field etc.
Is she next to/turned out with a horse she doesn't like, are other horses there exhibiting the same symptoms? Spend time with your horse doing non stress stuff, get to know her. Keep your handling consistent so she knows where she stands. I don't mean rough btw.

Stress will make her predisposed to gastric ulcers and possible hind gut irritation so do look at ensuring she has a high forage diet that is low in sugars, get her diet as simple as possible, the more different and compound things you feed the harder to untangle any dietary causes.
 
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Firewell said:
Personally I think they are a waste of money, before they were invented we never needed them and I don't use them on my horse. I think good feeding, management and training are the best calmer ;).
Saying that if they make people feel better then who am I to tell them what to spend their money on. My mum feeds her horse Nupafeed at £65 a pop I think shes barking but she is adamant it works. Personally I think her horse is calm because he's happy, fed and worked right but hey ho! The only time he started getting spooky was when he had not been ridden for 6 weeks, my mum thought it was because she had run out of calmer...
Anyway.. my point being is you could try a calmer but before spending the ££ i'd get her into a routine, give her lots of hay and fibre food, get her teeth ect doing so you know she is 100% comfortable, worm ect and start exercising her and getting to know her. If she is fresh stick her on the lunge for 10 mins before you get on and try and do some form of exercise with her most days and i'm sure you will find that as you get to know each other she will settle and won't need a calmer :).
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I agree with all this - I can't ride on Mondays and Tuesdays but I aim to ride 3-4 times a week. Just off to ride shortly - ridiculously nervous about it. Silly really!
 
I'm another one that doesn't believe in calmers.

I notice from another of your posts that she was hunting before you bought her? but is now only in light work, being ridden 3 times a week as you have children & a job.
I think that's probably your answer, she's fresh & not getting enough work. Would it be possible to pay someone to take her out once or twice a week for you? A good, long hack with plenty of trotting & some long canter's would probably make all the difference to her & make the times you can ride her much more enjoyable for you both.
 
HazyXmas said:
I'm another one that doesn't believe in calmers.

I notice from another of your posts that she was hunting before you bought her? but is now only in light work, being ridden 3 times a week as you have children & a job.
I think that's probably your answer, she's fresh & not getting enough work. Would it be possible to pay someone to take her out once or twice a week for you? A good, long hack with plenty of trotting & some long canter's would probably make all the difference to her & make the times you can ride her much more enjoyable for you both.
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I can't afford to pay anyone - I would look into sharers but I want to get used to her myself first as I need to know I am sending people out on a safe horse. So that's maybe a catch-22 but I don't think she's particularly fresh. I don't actually think it's that. I took her out for a long hack with lots of canters at the w/e and it didn't stop her spooking at the end of it and tanking off. She's not the world's fastest horse, which is probably why the lady who had her before me (a very keen hunter) decided she wasn't needed for hunting any more. Also, I know she was hunted, but I don't know how often - I rather got the impression that she WASN'T ridden much apart from when loaned out to the hunt. The farrier said her shoes didn't indicate that she'd been in hard work when I got her reshoed.
 
So you don't think that it's that she's gone from being hunting fit, going out once or twice a week hunting to just gentle hacking?

It is odd that she's dropped a lot of weight & gone from being very steady when you tried her to now being spooky & tanking off.

Is she getting enough turnout? Preferably 8-10 hours out with a friend. Does she have access to good quality hay/haylage at all times? I've still not got any grass coming through & am putting haylage out for my horses when they go out in the mornings.

I understand that you don't want to feed her too much, but i would give two small feeds a day of a half scoop of soaked Fast fibre, a double handful of chaff & 150g of micronized linseed. That should help put some weight on without any heating.

Good luck with her :-)
 
abercrombie&titch said:
Oh dear , I feel like I've got up your nose!!:rolleyes:

My ponies all have balancers as they are all good doers and are thus on restricted diets - brownie points for not having fatties please brucea! - but I don't want to make them deficient in anything!:)
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Cool! No fatties!

I'd much rather use a supplement like the Forage Plus or the MBA than The Top Spec or the Blue Chip.

Funny, I've seen a lot of horses not doing well on these products.
 
HazyXmas said:
So you don't think that it's that she's gone from being hunting fit, going out once or twice a week hunting to just gentle hacking?

It is odd that she's dropped a lot of weight & gone from being very steady when you tried her to now being spooky & tanking off.

Is she getting enough turnout? Preferably 8-10 hours out with a friend. Does she have access to good quality hay/haylage at all times? I've still not got any grass coming through & am putting haylage out for my horses when they go out in the mornings.

I understand that you don't want to feed her too much, but i would give two small feeds a day of a half scoop of soaked Fast fibre, a double handful of chaff & 150g of micronized linseed. That should help put some weight on without any heating.

Good luck with her :-)
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Thanks! To be honest I feel like I am walking through a minefield - I've asked my RI and the former owner and people at the yard and people on forums and been told she's too thin/she's fine/wait until the spring grass kicks in, she's not exercised enough/she's fine until I don't know what I am doing and am worried I am getting everything wrong! Information overload. TBH it didn't occur to me that dropping fitness might be an issue for Poppy mood-wise, I just thought she'd adjust to less work if I adjusted her diet accordingly - this certainly is a steep learning curve! She's turned out (with hay as the grass is rubbish) nearly every day unless the weather is absolutely dire but at the moment she's on her own due to issues with catching her, and because the other horses picked on her a bit. Once we've got over the catching issue, we'll find her a paddock mate. She's improving - caught her straightaway today. Took me 4 hours the first time I tried after buying her! I know ideally she should be ridden every day and I should be able to ride 5 out of 7 but the other issue is that I am jumpy as she is at the moment with my damn confidence crisis. In fact I am probably making her jumpy! I haven't enjoyed riding her this week. Just had a nice lesson with my RI which helped but obviously can't afford £35 every time I want to ride so need to sort myself out. Gonna try some of that Rescue Remedy stuff (on me, not the horse). Although I think something stronger and preferably alcohol based might have more effect!
 
squidsin said:
Thanks! To be honest I feel like I am walking through a minefield - I've asked my RI and the former owner and people at the yard and people on forums and been told she's too thin/she's fine/wait until the spring grass kicks in, she's not exercised enough/she's fine until I don't know what I am doing and am worried I am getting everything wrong! Information overload. TBH it didn't occur to me that dropping fitness might be an issue for Poppy mood-wise, I just thought she'd adjust to less work if I adjusted her diet accordingly - this certainly is a steep learning curve! She's turned out (with hay as the grass is rubbish) nearly every day unless the weather is absolutely dire but at the moment she's on her own due to issues with catching her, and because the other horses picked on her a bit. Once we've got over the catching issue, we'll find her a paddock mate. She's improving - caught her straightaway today. Took me 4 hours the first time I tried after buying her! I know ideally she should be ridden every day and I should be able to ride 5 out of 7 but the other issue is that I am jumpy as she is at the moment with my damn confidence crisis. In fact I am probably making her jumpy! I haven't enjoyed riding her this week. Just had a nice lesson with my RI which helped but obviously can't afford £35 every time I want to ride so need to sort myself out. Gonna try some of that Rescue Remedy stuff (on me, not the horse). Although I think something stronger and preferably alcohol based might have more effect!
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Just to add - she's been a different horse to the one I tried since I got her! But I don't think there's anything sinister about it, she's quite shy and worried and so am I at the moment, and there's inevitably going to be a period of adjustment while we get used to each other.
 
squidsin said:
I don't know enough about equine nutrition to mess around with anything else.
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I'm another one who believes that calmers as such are a waste of money. I would suggest, as others have, that the drop in work load is giving your horse more energy to tit about with. Plus, new owner and new surroundings. Give her a month or 2 to settle before fiddling around with supplements.

If you wish to know more about equine nutrition, then sign up for the next free 5 week equine nutrition online course with edinburgh uni. Loads of us on here have just finished the first running of the course and i for one learnt a lot.

HTH
xxx
 
We use the Equine America Magnitude which is straight magnesium oxide. It makes a huge difference in my sister's tb gelding's behaviour. He can be riggy, especially in the summer, is very stressy etc and when he's on this he is much calmer, doesn't display the riggy behaviour etc and is just generally much easier to handle and happier in himself. It's £20 for a tub that lasts 6 months and we find that we saw a difference within a week or two.
 
My worry about giving a magnesium supplement is mainly what if she gets too much - is it harmlessly excreted? What are the long-term effects? I'd be happy to try it if it was definitely harmless whether it worked for her or not, but isn't there a slight risk to the horse if they get too much magnesium? Also, not quite the same thing, but I know lithium is a really powerful mood-alterer if given to humans that's used to treat psychosis - can't help wondering if magnesium is the horse equivalent!
 
I really feel for you. Getting to grips with a new horse can be a nightmare, especially your first one :-)

Lots of turnout will really help her, it gives her a chance to burn off excess energy & also to chill out & relax. A calm, good natured companion would be a big help, she might be fretting & anxious because she's lonely.
The other thing is routine, horses thrive on knowing what's going to happen at set times. Mine always get put out straight after their breakfast, even if it's only for an hour. One of our mares gets so stressed if her routine changes that she's virtually unrideable.

Don't despair, we've all been through these sort of 'new horse' teething troubles. You might need to invest a bit of money just for a few weeks to get over these little problems. A lesson a week will really help & if you could find a good teenager to take her out for you for a longer, faster, fun hack a few times, i'm sure that you'd both benefit.

I hope that she settles soon, once you understand each other she should be fine just being ridden 3 or 4 times a week.
 
HazyXmas said:
I really feel for you. Getting to grips with a new horse can be a nightmare, especially your first one :-)

Lots of turnout will really help her, it gives her a chance to burn off excess energy & also to chill out & relax. A calm, good natured companion would be a big help, she might be fretting & anxious because she's lonely.
The other thing is routine, horses thrive on knowing what's going to happen at set times. Mine always get put out straight after their breakfast, even if it's only for an hour. One of our mares gets so stressed if her routine changes that she's virtually unrideable.

Don't despair, we've all been through these sort of 'new horse' teething troubles. You might need to invest a bit of money just for a few weeks to get over these little problems. A lesson a week will really help & if you could find a good teenager to take her out for you for a longer, faster, fun hack a few times, i'm sure that you'd both benefit.

I hope that she settles soon, once you understand each other she should be fine just being ridden 3 or 4 times a week.
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I've had 3 lessons this week, it's costing me a fortune! I'm planning on having at least one a week for the forseeable. I've got a couple of great local RIs so at least that bit is sorted.

Definitely think you could be right about the companion. I do feel sad for her in her little paddock (that we had to put her into as she was uncatchable in the main field, so we're gradually widening her area until we can hopefully put her in with the others.) I'll speak to the YO about at least turning out one of the other horses in the field next to hers. There's a big gelding she seems to like.

Noted about the routine.

I feel for me too! I've got 2 kids, a dog, 2 cats, 5 chickens and a husband and NONE of them have ever caused me this level of worry! Although the kids are only 1 and 3 so give it time.... ;)
 
'I feel for me too! I've got 2 kids, a dog, 2 cats, 5 chickens and a husband and NONE of them have ever caused me this level of worry! Although the kids are only 1 and 3 so give it time....'

Oh yes :-) this will seem like a walk in the park once the kids reach teenage years :-) you'll be retreating to the yard for peace & solitude, & enjoying lovely long hacks on your mare to escape from the kids & husband!

I should know, i've got 4 kids, 6 horses, 3 cats, 1 husband & a dog..............(i count my blessing's there's only one husband!!!)
 
According to my vet there is science behind magnesium helping a stressy horse but ONLY if if is deficient in magnesium.
 
@ brucea

You did put a smile in my face. You are spot on. Compound balancer can only work somehow but never in the meaning of the word balance.

Any compound balancer is only a higher concentrated mixed feed. And a balancer should never ever supply energy.

Picture this, a horse is coming back from hospital and it will need a very strict diet and it needs to be stabled. You can`t give him concentrates. But it will need the full supply of vitamins, minerals and trace elements for a proper healing process. And I mean full.
How will this work with a compound balancer? Give him 2 or 3 pounds only for the supply with the elements it needs?

How to balance a horse without overdoing or under doing the amount of energy when it is a compound balancer?

There is real balancers and you have to feed them different. For a horse in standby like a happy hacker not doing a lot you have to give for an example the following.

Bodyweight of the horse multiplied with 0.075 is the amount in gram per day.

This is about 37 gram per day with the full supply of what he needs.

There is balancers for high performance horses like racehorses and here you have to give Bodyweight multiplied with 0.16 as a full measure for one day. And nothing else in regard to vitamins etc. its all in and enough.

Calmers don’t work unless there is a lack of something. But many horses are a bit hyper because they are not balanced and this is working on the hormonal system and nerve system as well.

Like people with ADS e.g. Not enough vitamin B and zinc and the dopamine production is upside down.



@ eggs

Spot on.
 
HazyXmas said:
'I feel for me too! I've got 2 kids, a dog, 2 cats, 5 chickens and a husband and NONE of them have ever caused me this level of worry! Although the kids are only 1 and 3 so give it time....'

Oh yes :-) this will seem like a walk in the park once the kids reach teenage years :-) you'll be retreating to the yard for peace & solitude, & enjoying lovely long hacks on your mare to escape from the kids & husband!

I should know, i've got 4 kids, 6 horses, 3 cats, 1 husband & a dog..............(i count my blessing's there's only one husband!!!)
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Ha ha! You win...but in a few years I'll probably have worked up to your level. Well, not the kids, I'd happily have more if someone did the childbirth part for me, but I could easily add a few more chickens to my menagerie. Or a goat. Or a pig. And the kids would probably like their own pony....Nooooooooo!
 
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