Total lack of stamina??

[Patterdale]

I’ve got a lovely connie who is wonderful in every way - BUT he is very, very steady and difficult to get going.
I’ve had him over a year and he’s always been this way. He’s improved in some ways with schooling, feeding and fitness, but he just has no get up and go at all. We can be cantering on a hack and he will just get slower and slower. He’d grind to a halt if I didn’t keep riding.

A lot of the time it’s like he’s genuinely tired. Towards the end of a course of jumps, or if you do two classes he just gets tired. Some people say he’s just being lazy and possibly he is, but I feel awful just pushing him all the time.

Out hunting he lights up like a firework, so much so I’ve stopped taking him. So I know he CAN do it if he’s feeling inspired.

I want to event him but at the moment I’m not sure if he’d even make it to fence 5!

Help and ideas very welcome! Sorry for the rambling post!

 

[SEL]

Test his muscle enzymes. There is a form of PSSM with connies which would lead to the lack of stamina. Adrenaline might be keeping him going out hunting.

 

[Patterdale]

I’ve never heard of muscle enzymes!? How do I do that?
I was going to get his blood work done.

 

[Patterdale]

He’s never looked like tying up though?

 

[paddy555]

He’s never looked like tying up though?

they don't all tie up and you certainly hope yours doesn't get to that stage.

I would do full bloods to start with looking especially at CK and AST (muscle enzymes). I would also test for cushings ie ACTH test. Mine started doing what you describe at around 5. It took till he was 12 to work out it was cushings. PSSM is another possibility and indeed a blood test may show something else.

As SEL says adrenaline may keep him going hunting but it won't be helping him.

 

[DirectorFury]

A connie on my yard was like this to a tee - owner had her tested and she's got a muscle myopathy. Now she's on a suitable diet, turnout regime, and proper work she's like a different horse.

 

[paddy555]

if the bloods don't show anything conclusive you can test yourself without a vet for PSSM type 1. Cost is around £35 and you send hairs to either Animal Genetics or labogen.

How old is he and when did he start working?

 

[ester]

also worth doing bloods pre and post exercise I think too? iirc?

 

[Patterdale]

He’s 8 and I think he was broken at 4 but had only really hacked and done bits until I got him.

I’m reading about PSSM now but it doesn’t seem like him at all? I will definitely ask the vet though.

 

[Patterdale]

When I google muscle myopathy it’s just bringing up atypical myopathy so I’m no further forward..! Sorry

 

[paddy555]

He’s 8 and I think he was broken at 4 but had only really hacked and done bits until I got him.

I’m reading about PSSM now but it doesn’t seem like him at all? I will definitely ask the vet though.

PSSM becomes a problem when they start working ie actually doing something rather than just walking around being broken so it shows with young horses as they start work which was why I asked his age and work.
I am afraid what you are describing could well sound like PSSM. Most of us have had to sort this problem ie PSSM ourselves. There is very little vet help available in general vets. Mine was at an equine hospital for nearly a week and no one thought to suggest it.

I would suggest your horse is not lazy, he simply cannot do anymore than he is already doing, physically it is too much for him and that is due to pain.

are you giving him vit E?

 

[NinjaPony]

I would echo getting bloods looked at. Also consider lung function-my connie has had lots of trouble with his breathing due to inflamed airways and it made him very tired when ridden and even coming in from the field. Now he's had that treated, he is full of beans again-too many beans some might say...!

 

[Patterdale]

PSSM becomes a problem when they start working ie actually doing something rather than just walking around being broken so it shows with young horses as they start work which was why I asked his age and work.
I am afraid what you are describing could well sound like PSSM. Most of us have had to sort this problem ie PSSM ourselves. There is very little vet help available in general vets. Mine was at an equine hospital for nearly a week and no one thought to suggest it.

I would suggest your horse is not lazy, he simply cannot do anymore than he is already doing, physically it is too much for him and that is due to pain.

are you giving him vit E?

Thanks. He was in less work when I got him and he was far worse then - when I tried him he wouldn’t canter and he used to stop dead after every jump. He’s improved loads.
I’m not disagreeing with you at all, just adding in more info

I know nothing about PSSM but I’ll find out about it. Is there treatment?

Not giving vitamin E. he’s on topline conditioning cubes and looks great.

 

[Patterdale]

I would echo getting bloods looked at. Also consider lung function-my connie has had lots of trouble with his breathing due to inflamed airways and it made him very tired when ridden and even coming in from the field. Now he's had that treated, he is full of beans again-too many beans some might say...!

This is interesting as I’ve often wondered if there could be a problem with his wind. He gets very out of puff which I thought was down to fitness but now he should be getting fitter I’m not sure. How did you get it diagnosed and treated?

After a crap few years with lameness etc, I really don’t want to start a costly search for problems in what is a sound and happy, albeit lazy pony.
But I also don’t want to mistake laziness for what could be an actual issue.
I’ve always had really buzzy horses before so it’s totally alien to me and so hard to know what’s normal and what’s not. But something just doesn’t feel quite 100%.

 

[SEL]

My horse has got pssm and you feel like you are riding with the handbrake on. When she is feeling well she's very responsive but otherwise she sounds much like yours.

The reason I suggested getting bloods pulled it because the RVC were looking into a type of myopathy specific to connies. They were negative for type 1 pssm but positive on muscle biopsy.

The pre and post exercise test is pretty straightforward to do. The vet blood tests for CK levels first thing in the morning (per exercise). Lunge for up to 30 mins at trot if they can manage it, stable for 5 hours and then take more bloods for CK. Depending on how the levels elevate in those 5 hours will let you know if there is an issue.

 

[Patterdale]

SEL sadly that’s not a possibility as my nearest equine vets are 2 hours away. They certainly won’t come out twice or stay here all day sadly.

The more I’m reading about PSSM the more I think it doesn’t sound like him at all. I will definitely talk to the vet about it as an option though.

He’s never naughty or nappy in any way, always happy to go out and about. He’s never been stiff or unlevel and he doesn’t get stiff muscles, feel the cold or sweat excessively (hardly at all). He’s always obliging and does whatever I ask, but if we were for instance on a hack and got to a lovely long field on an uphill slope, he’d run out of steam halfway up.

He has improved with work, but not as much as I’d like. I think I’m going to get blood tests, ask the vet about PSSM and get his lung function tested. He does get very blowy after fast work/lots of jumping.

His routine is:
Out 24/7 in a hilly place, with hay, and topline cubes with sugar beet once a day. Feed doesn’t affect him at all, never heats him up no matter what I give him.
Shod in front only, never minds picking feet up.
Has vet physio massage 3-4x a year, no problems reported. I was having her every 6 weeks but she said he’s so well I’m wasting my money so we dropped down.

Think that’s it! He’s jumping 70 and 80cm classes at the moment.

 

[Flicker]

If you’re getting the vet, you may want to get a lameness workup at the same time. The only experience I have had of a horse reluctant to move forward turned out to be SI dysfunction. Not obvious lameness (1/10th bilaterally) but definitely impeded performance. Hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[blackislegirl]

Hello, OP.. You know your own pony, and others here have probably much more experience than me of various veterinary issues. But fwiw, here is my tuppenceworth, based on years of owning connies and PBs.

The opening sentence 'I’ve got a lovely connie who is wonderful in every way - BUT he is very, very steady and difficult to get going.' sounds typical of the breed - as is the ability to self-motivate in an exciting environment.

My current boy is rather older than yours, and is in regular work doing BD at novice and jumping 60-70cm. One of my favourite dressage comments was ' he clearly knows his job and is careful not to waste any energy on it.' This has not been an issue jumping, as we don't do it often so he is always well up for it,

Straightness has been and is an ongoing challenge in our flatwork - both his natural tendency to carry his longish body slightly lopsided and my tendency to alter my position to compensate. A BD approved coach has recently emphasised this to me, given me corrections, and wow, did my boy become more powerful behind the moment we were both really straight. It was quite a revelation.

I also observe that I think I am feeding my chap rather more than yours. He is out in daytime, stabled overnight, has 8-9kg of hay, and two feeds each of 1/2 scoop pea and bean mix, 1 scoop each of soaked sugarbeet and chaff.

Like I say, just my tuppenceworth.

 

[Trouper]

It's not ideal that your equine vets are so far away but if I wanted to be sure that there was not an underlying issue I would be transporting him to them for the day. I would not want to risk - however slight - making things worse by changing feed or pushing the exercise until I was sure.

 

[SEL]

It's not ideal that your equine vets are so far away but if I wanted to be sure that there was not an underlying issue I would be transporting him to them for the day. I would not want to risk - however slight - making things worse by changing feed or pushing the exercise until I was sure.

I actually left my horse with them for the blood tests etc - they have better surfaces to work on, can get bloods processes on site etc.

OP - I'm not sure what you are reading about PSSM but your description in your opening post does sound like a horse with a myopathy so it is worth ruling in / out. My vet describes it as an "energy crisis in the muscles". Once they've used the glucose in their blood stream they can't then draw on glycogen stored in their muscles - so run out of steam.

Suspensory and SI problems can also result in a horse with the handbrake on but that's usually from the outset rather than a horse running out of energy.

But a day at the vets will hopefully get you some answers.

 

[NinjaPony]

This is interesting as I’ve often wondered if there could be a problem with his wind. He gets very out of puff which I thought was down to fitness but now he should be getting fitter I’m not sure. How did you get it diagnosed and treated?

After a crap few years with lameness etc, I really don’t want to start a costly search for problems in what is a sound and happy, albeit lazy pony.
But I also don’t want to mistake laziness for what could be an actual issue.
I’ve always had really buzzy horses before so it’s totally alien to me and so hard to know what’s normal and what’s not. But something just doesn’t feel quite 100%.

For it was the difference between relaxed, and tired. My pony would come back from a half an hour walk puffing like he had just been cantering uphill, so I knew he wasn't right. It was hard to put my finger on it but I just felt something wasn't right. Got him tested via scoping and taking a sample of his trachea/windpipe, and a sample further down in the lungs, which then got sent away for testing. He then had powdered steroids, and inhalers. It's taken two lots of this to see any improvement and he has to be managed extremely carefully, but it has made a big difference to his energy levels. I got this done all on insurance and I'm glad I didn't overlook the issue.

 

[ihatework]

Based on what you are saying I’d be inclined to get an overground scope done to check his wind

 

[Annagain]

I totally agree with others who recommend getting things checked - if nothing else for your peace of mind - but it could just be him. My share horse is a bit like this. He's so laid back, he'll quite happily trot behind cantering horses if you don't make him canter and he'll take the first opportunity to stop. Over the years his owner tried everything to fire him up a bit including bucket loads of oats and nothing has ever done it. He does sound a little bit more responsive than your boy and he's at his most lively when there are jumps but even that is very polite and sedate. We're lucky that he's very genuine so will never say no but will give everything absolute minimum effort. This makes him very very safe.

He's currently a giant pony club pony taking a 13 year old around 80cm SJ and XC courses at the age of 24. I'm sure he wouldn't still be doing it now if he'd been more gung ho in his younger days. He's never made life difficult for himself and we're reaping the benefit now. The only issue with him is he seems to have zero adrenalin so when he gets tired he drops like a stone. He's never made the time on a XC course as even though he's 17hh and has a huge stride he usually has to have a little trot 3/4 of the way round to get his puff back - even when he was incredibly fit and eventing once a month.

 

[Patterdale]

Thanks everyone.

I’ve spoken to the vet today, she said to get him in and they will listen to heart, lungs before and after exercise, assess for lameness, full bloods and muscle biopsy if nothing else shows up. She doesn’t think it sounds like PSSM from the history but said not to rule it out now and she will see what she thinks when she sees him.

It’s a full day’s job as it’s a 5 hour round trip so I won’t be able to take him for 3-4 weeks I don’t think, but I will update!

 

[Patterdale]

Annagain you are basically describing my pony there!! Amazing similarity!

 

[shergar]

Breathlessness and fatigue are symptoms of anaemia ,it is the first thing I would have tested .

 

[KrujaaLass]

How is anemia treated

 

[Annagain]

Annagain you are basically describing my pony there!! Amazing similarity!

Obviously get him checked but if there's nothing wrong, enjoy him for what he is - super safe and easy. Even though we'd love M to be a bit bouncier on occasion, his laidbackness is his strength and now we've accepted that's what he is, I think we enjoy him all the more for it. He's just so easy. You can take him anywhere and he doesn't get wound up, we always get put in with the babies coming to riding club for the first time so uncle Monty can look after them and he gets used on the pony club beach ride to supervise the little ones as he can have anything cantering off around him and just carries on in walk until he's told to go. He's 24 now but he was 20 when he was 5. In the 19 years I've known him, NOBODY has fallen off him (one of two have fallen over with him!) even novices learning to jump as he never stops, never overjumps and if he feels you wobbling he slows down gently and lifts his head to help you back into position. Now that I'm looking for a new one I'm always assessing them on the Monty scale and none have matched up yet.

 

[teddypops]

This is interesting as I’ve often wondered if there could be a problem with his wind. He gets very out of puff which I thought was down to fitness but now he should be getting fitter I’m not sure. How did you get it diagnosed and treated?

After a crap few years with lameness etc, I really don’t want to start a costly search for problems in what is a sound and happy, albeit lazy pony.
But I also don’t want to mistake laziness for what could be an actual issue.
I’ve always had really buzzy horses before so it’s totally alien to me and so hard to know what’s normal and what’s not. But something just doesn’t feel quite 100%.

My sec D was like this. Fine when I broke her in but as I upped her work, she had no stamina and was out of breath so quickly. I had her scoped and she has an abnormal soft palate. This balloons up and completely blocks her airways. I have had it lasered a few times and it helps a bit. It wasn’t hugely expensive. About £700 for the dynamic scope and treatment then around £200 for each further op (around 18months apart).

 

[Patterdale]

Update on this. All views welcome!

Pony had his performance work up today. All initial assessments fine. Took bloods before and after exercise so we’ll see what those bring up.

He was totally sound so that’s good. I then got on and rode. I cantered him round for 4-5 mins and he started to get very tired. Went a couple more laps, he was v tired and I was really pushing him on. Stopped then and they listened to his heart etc again. He recovered very quickly so they said fitness is not the issue.
I then jumped an 80cm upright after the cantering and he just had nothing left in the tank. He jumped as he’s very genuine but it was an effort.

Vets have said to wait and see what the bloods bring up, but that if they show nothing it might be just him. Which is really sad as I can’t see us progressing to BE and upwards.
He’s otherwise the perfect pony and I won’t be selling him as I have young children who ride. He would be a perfect child’s pony as he is 10000% safe and genuine in every way.

Just feeling a bit deflated and not sure where to go from here.