Totilas

FrodoBeutlin

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My thoughts are that those are 4-5 pictures, a moment in time -- I am 100% sure that if one wanted, given enough time, one could take similar or worse pictures of ANY of the British team riders or anybody else, for that matter.

During the test this particular combination looked much more in harmony than ever before, the horse was ridden in a nice frame, poll high at all times and is indeed in a correct frame & poll high in several other photos in that same FB album.


Incidentally....... This is the reason why MAR is forced to school his horse at 6am and why so many restrictions have to be put on spectating at shows in Germany when Totilas is expected to compete.
 

Santa_Claus

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see i will agree they are a moment in time but they do not look great!

Although he does look a lot better and more settled as I said in the other thread the back end still does not match the front!
 

Lolo

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see i will agree they are a moment in time but they do not look great!

Although he does look a lot better and more settled as I said in the other thread the back end still does not match the front!
Has it ever though? I don't want to sound argumentative, I'm genuinely interested because when EG had him this was a huge bone of contention then as well?

Think he looks more settled though than he has done :)
 

Foxford

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Very grim. I suppose the horse was trained in this way - I don't know if Rath would usually use this method or he feels he has to, so he can get to grips with the horse? I'm sure someone else will know!
If that was a moment in time with my own horse I would be mortified.
 

charlie76

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I think you will find the horse was trained using these methods with Edward gal. The scores show it must be how the horse either prefers to work or how it is used to being worked. Whether its right o
 

charlie76

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R wrong is another matter but like it or not horses at this level are not pets and the rider will do what it takes to get the goods delivered and lets face it, they weren't until toddsy
 

pigsmight:)

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I am not a dressage person but admire those that are. What I don't understand is why people let this whole totilas thing bother them quite so much, from my totally novice point of view the horse looks in good condition and im quite sure that he has the best care. So wether or not we like how he is being ridden surely there are more pressing horse care issues to worry about?. I am not trying to jump on my high horse and I am sure there is good reason why people feel so strongly about this. It just seems a shame to be waiting for an excuse to be negative about this rider all of the time, he must feel hurt by all the bad feeling.
 

Peer

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At the press conference the Rath family didn't make it a secret that they have implemented lot of the so called Dutch system. Klaus Matthias Rath : "We have tried to work with Totilas according to the German training scale, but it didn't work". And YES i can publish these kind of pictures from every rider in the world. Even Klaus Balkenholl :cool:
 

charlie76

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Hmmm. Sorry to break the dream but I think you would find that Edward gal rode the horse using the exact same methods hence the reason for rath now doubt the same. It obviously works for the horseas the latest scores show. Whether its right or not to train the horse this way is another matter but rather didn't start it. The one thing I will add is I would not want to be the horses rider, he got slated when the marks were lower and the comments on the stallion shoe were bad, now he has adopted the training methods the horse is used to and getting the wow marks he is still being slated. Poor bloke can't win!
 

HuntingPink

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Gal used rollkur and now Rath. I don't care that they're winning, it's abusive and it's cruel. As for it being a snapshot (quite a few snapshots with the same 'outline') he's using force in every single snapshot, hauling on the reins, including the curb and Totilas' head is yanked into his chest. The outline is broken, the hind legs are trailing and the forelegs have the rollkur enhanced 'flash'. No excuses, guilty as charged.
 

AdorableAlice

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Why can a world class rider, connected to world class trainers not be able to fit a double bridle correctly ?

Pictures 1, 5, 8 12 and 13 all show the curb horizontal to the ground. That horse, regardless of who he is, will be very uncomfortable in his mouth, curb groove and poll.
 

cptrayes

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During the test this particular combination looked much more in harmony than ever before, the horse was ridden in a nice frame, poll high at all times and is indeed in a correct frame & poll high in several other photos in that same FB album.
.
Frodo there were lots of places that he wasn't poll high in the Freestyle I watched on youtube from Hagen yesterday, and he was using one front leg markedly more than the other in the extensions too. It was very clear in the slomo at the end.

He was much, much more in harmony though, wasn't he? I thought MAR had changed his riding a fair bit to accommodate the sensitivity of the horse and that likewise Totilas was learning not to panic at MAR giving stronger/more active aids than Gal used to.
 
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Baggybreeches

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I haven't seen the videos of this particular test but I do sometimes wonder whether with this horse they tend to 'wind him up' during the warm up so that the test situation is his 'let off' time. Not getting into the Rollkur or LDR debate I am on about the 'mental' aspect of it?
FWIW I don't think the horse has ever had truly 'even' paces front and behind but there will come a point when another horse with a big front leg movement will appear and then the whole thing will start again.
 
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The performance went better than earlier public examples of the Rath/Totilas combination might have suggested. The acid test would be a few demonstrations of a test performed after HHO members had overseen his warm up in a correctly-fitted bridle and using orthodox techniques, perhaps?
 

Goldenstar

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The performance went better than earlier public examples of the Rath/Totilas combination might have suggested. The acid test would be a few demonstrations of a test performed after HHO members had overseen his warm up in a correctly-fitted bridle and using orthodox techniques, perhaps?
That got me laughing we should go to every show!
 

amage

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So to really set the cat among the pigeons....Rollkur/LDR is abhorred and slated as a vile practice yet this horse is evidently WAY happier being ridden this way so is it not better to do what makes the horse happier? I am not for it as a practice but I equally think different things suit different horses and there is no reason why some horses wouldn't suit this system. It is quite extreme, but the horse looked infinitely more comfortable in the test that in previous excursions with Rath. I suppose what I am saying is that all horses are individuals...I feel Rath should be commended for altering his system to suit the horse. It can't be easy. Most people get to play around with trial and error in private...he is subjected to the opinions of everyone and anyone.
 

Posie

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I know very little about high end dressage but he is definitely extending more on one side than the other, why is this not marked down?
 

intouch

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Apparently the pictures are being removed from people's accounts.
That pretty much speaks for itself, doesn't it? I haven't watched the wonderful test - I don't believe the end justifies the means, and how anyone can say that the horse is "happier" being ridden like this - happier than what?
 

viola

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I saw the pictures before they were removed. The fact they got deleted speaks volumes to me. If they showed such a happy Totilas they would still be out there.
Personally, I don't care if there are moments in time, snaps of the second or other such nonsense. It was not one picture, it was tens of frames in which the horse looked like it was being pulled apart at its mouth - how could anyone describe it as a humane training method for any horse is beyond me.

I admit to be totally amazed when I first saw this horse live at Windsor Europeans some years ago but the more I learn about the biomechanics of those methods and the more I see him and others flicking their toes all over the place and trotting with legs wrapped around their ears I dislike it more and more. It's Circus not Dressage.
 

tristar

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i always think ed gal looks like someone sitting on a chair when he was riding toto, and MR looks like he is carrying his head and neck in a too forward position, frankly watching him ride makes me feel uncomfortable, toto is a seriously talented horse but i do not enjoy watching him, he looks to me as if he has been pushed too much too young, he would have looked more natural if he had been allowed to reach his potential in a less interfering way of training, he is after all part trak and goes forward naturally, i don't like his tight neck, i feel like i want to give that bloke a riding lesson! just how i personally see it, that's all.

it concerns me that people copy those methods, and as an antidote i shall now go and watch fuego in kentucky on you tube
 

galaxy

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I was under the impression that this "method" of riding was now banned? So why did no official step in?

I also think that they know they were in the wrong doing it, hence having the photos removed!! Why else would they be trying to hide them?
 
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