Tow car questions

[chaps89]

I have all my fingers and everything else crossed that early next year I can upgrade my beloved Lara-Zara car for a tow vehicle.So me being me I'm starting to plan now
I plan on having a single trailer which seem to have a max gross weight of around 1600kg/unladen weight of about 800kg.
So if trailer is 800kg and horse is about 480kg that's just under 1300kg.
When looking at tow vehicles to ensure they can tow this, from what I can work out the mass of the trailer should be 85% of the cars kerbweight or less. Giving a kerbweight minimum requirement of just over 1500kg.
To then ensure that I'm within my B license restrictions I have 2200kg for the car to weigh.

Is my maths correct?!
Also, for choosing a towing vehicle is there any reason to go for/against petrol or diesel and manual or automatic?
If anyone has any suggestions on suitable cars please let me know. It will be my every day car so something as economical as possible! (Looking at Ford mondeo/Skoda Octavia as options currently)

 

[ROG]

I have all my fingers and everything else crossed that early next year I can upgrade my beloved Lara-Zara car for a tow vehicle.So me being me I'm starting to plan now
I plan on having a single trailer which seem to have a max gross weight of around 1600kg/unladen weight of about 800kg.
So if trailer is 800kg and horse is about 480kg that's just under 1300kg.
When looking at tow vehicles to ensure they can tow this, from what I can work out the mass of the trailer should be 85% of the cars kerbweight or less. Giving a kerbweight minimum requirement of just over 1500kg.
To then ensure that I'm within my B license restrictions I have 2200kg for the car to weigh.

Is my maths correct?!
Also, for choosing a towing vehicle is there any reason to go for/against petrol or diesel and manual or automatic?
If anyone has any suggestions on suitable cars please let me know. It will be my every day car so something as economical as possible! (Looking at Ford mondeo/Skoda Octavia as options currently)

85% is for caravans only

B licence is the total of the vehicle plated GVW add to the trailer plated MAM and must not total more than 3500

More info on page 3000 of the HHO TOWING CLINIC thread - link below in signature

 

[ester]

The 85% is a caravan club thing, I don't think you really need to apply it. If you look on the tow thread I think there are some good B licence suggestions, I know the honda CRV comes up a fair bit!

 

[chaps89]

Dammit, I was so sure I'd cracked it. I'm having a real mental block with all of this for some reason.
I shall go and check out the towing thread (I presume I can fiddle about in settings to show people's signatures?)
Funnily enough the CR-V was one I looked at first, only I've looked at this so much I can't remember why I discounted it

 

[chaps89]

Aha, found the thread. How do I get to page 3000 without clicking all the way through please?!

 

[pixie27]

I tow with an auto and love it. Much smoother ride for horse and I don’t worry that I’m gonna burn out my clutch! If you go auto, make sure it has a gear holding feature - I don’t know if this is standard in all towing cars but worth checking. I also did my trailer test and was quite easy - nice to have the peace of mind with weights etc.

 

[ROG]

Aha, found the thread. How do I get to page 3000 without clicking all the way through please?!

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ing-Clinic&p=13452720&viewfull=1#post13452720

 

[chaps89]

Thanks Rog, that's helped make it a bit clearer.
But I need to know the GVW to work out if a vehicle has the towing capacity. Everything suggests finding this on a v5 or on the car. I had a look at Parkers but they don't list it, how can I find it out in advance without having to contact sellers/view cars?

Eta I'm sorry if I'm making a mess of this

Also, why doesn't the 85% towing rule for caravans apply to horses too? Surely it's even better to be well within the limits of the vehicle when towing our precious horses?

 

[ester]

Because caravan drivers are safer at 85%, they crash them plenty enough as it is for their few times a year trips . (sorry it's summer hols season, they clog up the M5 ) Sure ROG will have better reasoning!

 

[ROG]

caravans are big lightweight bubbles of air so prone to much more than the lightest horsebox

I usually google something such as - fiesta kg gvw - more often than not I go to the carleasing site where other options such a max towing weight are listed on the left by scrolling down

 

[phizz4]

As I understand (happy to be corrected) every car has a Gross Vehicle Weight, which is the maximum weight of the vehicle and everything in or on it (fuel, people, luggage etc). That car will also have a towing weight limit, set by the manufacturer. On my Shogun this is 3300kg. My GVW (or MAM) is 2810 kg. Therefore my Gross Train Weight is these two added together, 6110 kg. Hence the need for a B plus E licence. It doesn't matter what weight you are actually driving/towing, its what you potentially could drive/tow if you were at the upper limit.

A Skoda Octavia Scout 4x4, 2 litre diesel has a GVW of 2170 kg and a towing capacity of about 1350 kg (varies with specification). Therefore, your trailer MAM rating would have to be less than 1330 kg to be able to tow on a B licence. The Ifor Williams single horse box (HB403) has a MAM or GVW of 1600 kg. You should be able to get that downplated to below 1330 kg so you could tow on a B licence.
On the subject of the 85% towing limit. Yes, this is a recommendation by the Caravan and Motor Home Club and they do say that experienced drivers can tow a caravan up to 100% of the weight of the car. BUT a heavy trailer and a light car, whether it is a caravan or horse trailer, is, in my opinion, asking for the tail to wag the dog. I have towed both caravans and horse trailers for over 20 years and I would never (now, based on experience) tow horses where the towed load was greater than 85% of the car weight (and not it's GVW). I hope that the first part makes sense and, as for the second part, that is just my recommendation and I'm sure that there will be others out there who disagree.

 

[holeymoley]

OP I have bought combinations to suit B license with a single trailer. My first was a Ford estate with gvw of 2050kg and towing weight of 1500kg. I downplated the trailer from 1600kg to 1400kg which took me to 3450kg. Pony is 450kg max so was only ever towing 1300kg max(rounded up to highest) and I never had any difficulties with it. I’ve since bought a BMW X1. The gvw is heavier so I’ll need to downplate a little bit more towing capability is 1800kg, plus it’s 4x 4. I’ll just make sure my horse keeps to his diet! 😜

 

[Tiddlypom]

On the subject of the 85% towing limit. Yes, this is a recommendation by the Caravan and Motor Home Club and they do say that experienced drivers can tow a caravan up to 100% of the weight of the car. BUT a heavy trailer and a light car, whether it is a caravan or horse trailer, is, in my opinion, asking for the tail to wag the dog.

I fully agree with this. Caravans may be boxes of air, but their contents tend not to try shift weight from leg to leg, turn round to look at the big tailgating lorry just behind, stretch out for a pee, squabble with their companion, paw at the floor etc.

The improvement when towing with a vehicle which is properly up to the job rather than winging it is immense.

 

[Annagain]

Dammit, I was so sure I'd cracked it. I'm having a real mental block with all of this for some reason.
I shall go and check out the towing thread (I presume I can fiddle about in settings to show people's signatures?)
Funnily enough the CR-V was one I looked at first, only I've looked at this so much I can't remember why I discounted it

In case Rog's thread doesn't help

The car's Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) and the trailer's Maximum Authorise Mass (MAM) cannot exceed 3500kg. If your trailer has a MAM of 1600kg you'll need a car with a GVW of 1900kg. However, if you want a car with a bigger GVW you can downplate your trailer. This will reduce the weight you can put on the trailer but it sounds like you only need 1300kg anyway. This would allow you to choose a bigger car and still remain within the 3500kg. Downplating is easy as long at the trailer manufacturer is still in business. You simply buy a new plate with the lower figure on it from them, it usually costs about £40-50.

That covers your licence. The other consideration is that the ACTUAL total weight of trailer + horse must not exceed the car's towing capacity. It sounds like this won't be an issue for the trailer + horse combination and the sort of vehicle you're looking at but it's always worth a check.

 

[chaps89]

Thankyou everyone. I think I'm getting there and have my head around calculating to ensure I'm within b license restrictions. GVW/MAM of trailer (1600kg) and car (no more than 1900kg unless I downplate trailer) so as not to exceed 3500kg.
I aim to do my b+e test but it took 3 attempts to pass my driving test purely because of nerves so I don't hold out a lot of hope of passing easily! Hence if I can get within B license limits it takes the pressure off a bit.

It sounds like sticking within the 85% limit is better so as not to be pushing to the limit.

Last bit to get my head around now - finding out the towing capacity of the vehicle.
Some websites list braked towing weight/capacity - is this what I'm after? And I need to make sure that it's more than the 800kg of the trailer and 500kg of the horse- and that that 1300kg isn't on the limit of the braked towing weight? If there is no braked towing weight/capacity listed, how can I find it out?

 

[ROG]

Thankyou everyone. I think I'm getting there and have my head around calculating to ensure I'm within b license restrictions. GVW/MAM of trailer (1600kg) and car (no more than 1900kg unless I downplate trailer) so as not to exceed 3500kg.
I aim to do my b+e test but it took 3 attempts to pass my driving test purely because of nerves so I don't hold out a lot of hope of passing easily! Hence if I can get within B license limits it takes the pressure off a bit.

It sounds like sticking within the 85% limit is better so as not to be pushing to the limit.

Last bit to get my head around now - finding out the towing capacity of the vehicle.
Some websites list braked towing weight/capacity - is this what I'm after? And I need to make sure that it's more than the 800kg of the trailer and 500kg of the horse- and that that 1300kg isn't on the limit of the braked towing weight? If there is no braked towing weight/capacity listed, how can I find it out?

If choosing to be within 85% then the ACTUAL weight of the car and all inside it when towing needs to be 1500 - that is not the kerb weight on its own but kerb weight + everything inside the car including the driver etc

Usually the vehicle max towing limit/towing capacity/max towing weight is listed on the internet

What it seems you are looking for is a vehicle with these specs -
GVW 2100 (or 2150)
Towing capacity 1500

Along with a trailer that is 800 empty with a MAM of 1400 (or 1350)


If you went for a really lightweight such as the Bateson Derby trailer then that is max 700 empty and be down plated to 1300 leaving 600 for the trailer load - then you can opt for a vehicle with a GVW of 2200

 

[chaps89]

Thanks Rog, that's really helpful! I have no idea if such a vehicle exists in those limits but at least now I know what I'm looking for and if I can't find it I have an understanding of what I should be looking at.

 

[Muddy unicorn]

Sorry to barge in on your thread chaps89, but does anyone tow a trailer with a Mercedes E-class estate? It would be with a single trailer and one 16hh ISH. If so, would you mind telling me what it’s like? Would you recommend it? My husband thinks we’d need to get a 4x4 in order to tow safely... I have an ancient licence so wouldn’t need to take a test but would get some extra training to feel safer. Thanks

 

[ROG]

Sorry to barge in on your thread chaps89, but does anyone tow a trailer with a Mercedes E-class estate? It would be with a single trailer and one 16hh ISH. If so, would you mind telling me what it’s like? Would you recommend it? My husband thinks we’d need to get a 4x4 in order to tow safely... I have an ancient licence so wouldn’t need to take a test but would get some extra training to feel safer. Thanks

4x4 not needed unless you are going to tow on rough/slippy surfaces

LOADS on here tow with standard cars

If near Leicester I can help for FREE - with expenses covered

 

[Muddy unicorn]

Thanks Rog that’s very helpful - sadly nowhere near Leicester but thank you for the kind offer

 

[chaps89]

Sorry, I'm back

If choosing to be within 85% then the ACTUAL weight of the car and all inside it when towing needs to be 1500 - that is not the kerb weight on its own but kerb weight + everything inside the car including the driver etc

So say allow 300kg for person/tack/miscellaneous crap that accumulates in the car, I really need to look for a kerbweight of 1200 kg in that instance? I was under the impression from what I've read that it's just 85% of kerbweight, I hadn't seen anything anywhere to say it was 85% of loaded car so not sure where my misunderstanding lies.

What it seems you are looking for is a vehicle with these specs -
GVW 2100 (or 2150)
Towing capacity 1500

Along with a trailer that is 800 empty with a MAM of 1400 (or 1350)

I'm with you on GVW of car and MAM of trailer, totally got my head round b license 3.5t limit.
I'm still confused about towing capacity vs being within kerbweight (regardless of being at 85% or 100%)
So for example, Skoda Octavia 2.0D 2004 model. Kerbweight is 1350, 85% of which is 1147.50 but it has a towing capacity of 1400. (Appreciate you wouldn't tow my (hypothetical) set up with this car, just picked it at random to illustrate the point)
So am I looking to choose a towing vehicle on kerbweight or towing capacity as it seems there is a difference and towing capacity figures often seem higher than 85% of kerbweight figures.

 

[ROG]

Sorry, I'm back

So say allow 300kg for person/tack/miscellaneous crap that accumulates in the car, I really need to look for a kerbweight of 1200 kg in that instance? I was under the impression from what I've read that it's just 85% of kerbweight, I hadn't seen anything anywhere to say it was 85% of loaded car so not sure where my misunderstanding lies.


I'm with you on GVW of car and MAM of trailer, totally got my head round b license 3.5t limit.
I'm still confused about towing capacity vs being within kerbweight (regardless of being at 85% or 100%)
So for example, Skoda Octavia 2.0D 2004 model. Kerbweight is 1350, 85% of which is 1147.50 but it has a towing capacity of 1400. (Appreciate you wouldn't tow my (hypothetical) set up with this car, just picked it at random to illustrate the point)
So am I looking to choose a towing vehicle on kerbweight or towing capacity as it seems there is a difference and towing capacity figures often seem higher than 85% of kerbweight figures.

My advise is to forget kerbweight and the 85% completely

Vehicles are designed to tow their full capacity when only the driver is in the vehicle - This may FEEL wrong but is safe

 

[phizz4]

My Shogun has a towing capacity of 3300 kg. So, I could tow that weight legally, but would I want to? No. I wouldn't want to tow a weight that is greater than the weight of the car. Ideally I would tow a weight no more than 85% of the weight of the car. When my car is loaded with fuel, tack, driver and passenger it weighs somewhere around 2600 kg. The maximum weight I tow is 2000 kg (trailer is 1000 kg, horses are around 475 each). I could, legally, tow a much greater weight but I don't think it would be safe with a 'moving load'. I'm not going to give advice because at the end of the day it is your choice so long as you stay within the law, but, as stated above, I wouldn't want the tail to wag the dog when a huge artcic passes me on the motorway. For me, the weight of/in the towing vehicle counts towards my 85% guideline, which why I don't load the locker in the trailer with anything heavy. So, in a answer to your question, towing capacity is most often greater than the vehicles kerb weight, but I would forget that and focus on a vehicle that has the highest weight compatible with what you want to tow and the 3.5 ton limit. This site is very useful, it has all of the relevant figures for most cars. https://www.carleasingmadesimple.com/data/skoda/octavia/gross-vehicle-weight/

 

[ROG]

Vehicle designs are very different today than years ago

Many vehicles including LGVs are designed to safely tow more than what they weigh loaded or empty

Personal preferences and perceptions can often determine that a lower tow limit is opted for

 

[Kyle_86]

Hi guys! How can I go about downplating a Richardson Rice Horsebox, since I believe they've now gone out of business? Any ideas?

 

[ROG]

Hi guys! How can I go about downplating a Richardson Rice Horsebox, since I believe they've now gone out of business? Any ideas?

You cannot .... UNLESS another company has taken over ......

 

[Kyle_86]

You cannot .... UNLESS another company has taken over ......

Thanks for the reply.

My understanding is that they are no longer trading, but then on companies house the company still exists as operating. Do you know anymore?