Towing for numpties

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alcraw

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I passed my driving test after 1997, so to tow over a certain weight I need to take and additional test. However, I'm not sure if I would exceed the weight limit on a normal driving licence.

I want to use a Ford Mondeo estate to tow a 2 horse Ivor Williams trailer, containing 1 14h2 cob. Does anyone know if I'd need to take the extra test for this?

Thank you!
 
Your Mondeo's kerb weight is about 1500 kg, that's how much you would be able to tow legally on your license.
2 horse Ifor Williams is about 950 kg so you have about 550 kg payload left:)
 
I *think* that the cut of is 750kg for the trailer weight - which your Ifor Williams 2 horse trailer will be over - as I think most IW horse trailers are cracking on a tonne.

I did my HGV test to drive lorries a few years ago, but am thinking about doing my towing now, so that I can just have to do one lot of tax, insurance etc etc. TBH I wouldn't want to be out on the road with a trailer of that size behind my vehicle without some training. I think after I did my HGV I found I learned so much more, and I would not want to have been let loose in a 7.5 tonner without additional training (if that makes sense... :) )

Also - not sure if a Mondeo will be heavy enough to tow a IW? Check the weight of the vehicle, and the weight ratio for the trailer to see if your car is big enough. I googled this the other day and found what I wanted fairly quickly

:)
 
On a B category license you can tow trailers up to 750 kg OR heavier, providing that the weight of vehicle+trailer doesn't exceed 3,5t and the weight of the trailer+load does not exceed the weight of the vehicle.
Max towing weight for a Mondeo Estate 2l is 1800 kg:) but it only weighs 1,5t therefore this is what you can tow on a B cat license.
 
Also bear in mind that a ford mondeo I believe is front wheel drive, which means once you put a trailer on the back the weight is moved to the rear wheels, therefore taking power away from you..
 
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073

By law on your license you can take up to 3.5 tonnes combined ( car and trailer). However, the trailer cant be heavier than the car. SO lets say your car weighs 1200kg, and is allowed to tow 1500kg ( in the cars manual) you could only tow 1199 kgs. SO with a trailer of around 1000kg and a horse of 400kgs you coulndt pull it as the trailer is heavier than the car. (nothing to do with your lisence as its still under 3.5tonnes

:):)


So me for example ( passed after 1997), have a car that weighs 1500kgs, I can pull 1499 kgs ( as its lighter than my car and less than 3.5 tonnes)

So if i could find a trailer with a mam of lets say 1000kgs, i could put a horse in max 499kgs.

So its completely pointless for me to do the trailer test as its my vehicle that restricts me not my license.

If however i can a car that weighed 2 tonnes, and it could pull 2 tonnes, i would be restriced to a trailer of 1500 kgs as my license would be resitricting nme and not the car.
 
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Thanks all. Tara's around 420kg, so with a 1500kg car and a 1000kg trailer it looks like I'd just squeeze under the limit.

I only want to take her a few miles down the road to lessons. A friend's said I can borrow her trailer, so just trying to work it all out!
 
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Just dont forget that your trailer needs to have a Max laden weight on the chassis plate to match your car. So even if you are towing under 3.5t and all your weights add up, the trailer needs to be plated with the max laden weight your Mondeo can tow.
 
redmerl said:
Just dont forget that your trailer needs to have a Max laden weight on the chassis plate to match your car. So even if you are towing under 3.5t and all your weights add up, the trailer needs to be plated with the max laden weight your Mondeo can tow.
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Actually, it doesn't. The plate weight applies to much bigger trailers:)
 
Don't forget your tack, rugs, water etc etc that you will also be taking, you need to account for the extra weight. The only way to be sure is go and get your full outfit weighed at a weigh bridge and keep a copy of the recorded weight, then do the math to ensure you are definatley within the limit.

I have a feeling with an ifor with horse, tack, car you etc, you may find your over.

You don't want to get caught out otherwise your insurance will be void, and heaven help you if there was an accident (god forbid) and you were over.
 
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Quite a bit of miss-leading information in this thread!

To begin with, for the post '97 license holders, (like me) its not the actual weight of the trailer that counts, its the Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM aka GVW) that is stamped on the trailers plate that matters. So you can't borrow a friends trailer that has a MAM of 2000kg, load it to up to your vehicles unladen weight and drive off. The only way around this is to change the plate, downrating the trailer.

Alainax, if your cars unladen weight is 1500kg, but the towing weight is 1800kg, (for example a Mondeo) once you've passed your towing test the trailer can exceed the unladen weight of the car, up to 1800kg.

Martlin, all trailers have to display a plate showing the maximum weight.

Trailer dealer said I have to match the MAM of the trailer to the towing car to say within legal limits.

That is correct, there is a slightly grey area here, but its pretty well accepted with VOSA/Police that the MAM of the trailer cannot exceed the towing capacity of the car (which is Gross Train Weight - MAM (or GVW) as found on the cars VIN plate.
 
martlin said:
I didn't say they don't have to display a plate, just that it doesn't affect what she can or cannot tow.
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For arguements sake a police officer pulls you over, see's you don't have B+E entitlement, looks at the MAM of the trailer (that officer knows nothing of horses, so doesn't know what weight is actually in the trailer, only what the plate tells him) doesn't have a weighbridge nearby...... is he likely to believe an official plate or what the driver tells him??????!!!!

Personally just to ensure you are fully safe and legal, I would get weighed, ensure it's all within the limits AND get trailer downrated to show this amount. Whether it's a legal requirement or not, seems to be a grey area, but do you really want to leave yourself open to possibilities when so much is at stake???
 
sallybush - I'm glad you typed that all up, saved me the bother! This comes up time and time again, the MAM part is completely ignored and people think they can tow if they only have one horse etc.

My car/trailer is just out the limit, it's very annoying. I was going to get trailer downrated but never got round to it :rolleyes:
 
Competitiondiva, it's not a grey area, there is no such legal requirement.
the policeman can't actually tell if you're over the weight limit or not without weighing the vehicle and trailer, now, can he? Regardless of what it says on the plate, you could still carry to big a load and he would have no way of telling other than a weighbridge.
 
Sorry to hijack your thread but would anyone be able to help me figure out what I can tow?

I have a Vauxhall Monterey that weighs (according to manual) 1915kg and the horse weighs 435kg at the moment, though goes up to around 450kg in the summer (I try to maintain his weight around 440-5kg). The braked towing weight is 2600kg and has the capacity to pull 3.5 tonne in all. My Rice trailer is, I think, an older version of the Europa with a double wooden floor and rear unload only; I'm not sure exactly how much it weighs, though; any ideas?
So, say my trailer weighs a tonne, I would be able to tow on my own as the total capacity would not be more than 3500kg and the trailer weighs less than the car, is that correct? But if my trailer weighs more than a tonne, the total of unladen vehicle with the trailer + horse will come to over 3500 so will be illegal?
My brain hurts ;)
 
hahaha no you've just totally lost the plot!!!!

Martlin, my point was that the policeman who pulls you over doing vehicle checks (and believe me they are getting pretty hot on them working with defra etc!!) will base the fact that no B+E entitlement means no towing over a certain weight....... They see the mam on the trailer that says 2.6 tonnes, and one horse in it, they don't know what the weight with one horse on is, so either base it on the mam plate and book you for being over, or take/escort you to a weighbridge to be sure... which basically buggers up your day of what you were going out for!!!!

All i'm saying is for the sake of just getting a trailer downrated (not a hard job!) why risk anything????!!!!!!!
 
muffinino said:
Was that to me? Coz, tbh, I could have told you that :p Unless it's to martlin, then I wouldn't like to comment ;)

What's this getting the trailer downrated thingy all about? And how do you know what the MAM on the trailer is?
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Yes it was to you!!! hahaha

The MAM will be printed on the plate on the trailer usually has it's unladen weight and laden weight listed (the laden weight is the MAM!!)

With regards to downrating the trailer, you'd need to speek to a trailer dealer, but they did say if I wanted it done, it wasn't a hard job.

In the end I decided not to, instead I decided just to book myself in for the trailer test!!! Not worth the hassle!!!!
 
competitiondiva said:
hahaha no you've just totally lost the plot!!!!

Martlin, my point was that the policeman who pulls you over doing vehicle checks (and believe me they are getting pretty hot on them working with defra etc!!) will base the fact that no B+E entitlement means no towing over a certain weight....... They see the mam on the trailer that says 2.6 tonnes, and one horse in it, they don't know what the weight with one horse on is, so either base it on the mam plate and book you for being over, or take/escort you to a weighbridge to be sure... which basically buggers up your day of what you were going out for!!!!

All i'm saying is for the sake of just getting a trailer downrated (not a hard job!) why risk anything????!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

TBH I don't know why would you do it or not, I just said that there is no such legal requirement...
It does not affect me personally, if it did, then I would consider it more I suppose, but as I don't tow horses, only livestock and have an adequate livestock trailer I don't have to worry.
I would, however, make them escort me to the nearest weighbridge just on principle:D
 
competitiondiva said:
Yes it was to you!!! hahaha

The MAM will be printed on the plate on the trailer usually has it's unladen weight and laden weight listed (the laden weight is the MAM!!)

With regards to downrating the trailer, you'd need to speek to a trailer dealer, but they did say if I wanted it done, it wasn't a hard job.

In the end I decided not to, instead I decided just to book myself in for the trailer test!!! Not worth the hassle!!!!
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That's what I thought the MAM was - there must be one on my trailer somewhere but it's pretty old, so I'm not sure :o

See, the fact I'm so confused by it shows how rubbish the guidance given by the DVLA is for somebody who is just starting out towing and has nobody that can explain the law to her. I've always assumed that I cannot tow without the company of someone who has the proper licence, and never have, but having seen other posts I thought maybe I would get away with it if I had to (for example, if I needed to tow on my own due to an injury to another person where I'd have to get the nags home or something like that). However, having read the guidance a few times, I still couldn't figure it out! I towed 2 horses to an event for the first time yesterday, having decided I was better off getting a trailer/car and practicing real life towing before possibly looking at a few lessons in how to pass the test, with a view to taking it eventually. It's all very well saying do the trailer test, but those things cost a hell of a lot of money when you factor in training and the test cost. And that's taking that you pass it first time.

So what is the answer to my original question?
 
Oh heck, it's all a bit complicated for me.

Not sure about getting the trailer downgraded, as it's not actually mine... am thinking the only way to get around this is to stick the L plates on and get someone with a pre-1997 licence to come with me...
 
I recently took my trailer test. I spoke to the dvla and our local police neighbour (who happens to be part of the traffic unit) and they both said it goes on the MAM and not the fact that you only have an actual weight on board within your limit. The fine is £5000 and you will get 6 points on your licence if caught. Also your insurance would not bed valid if you were in an accident. You can either get the trailer downgraded or take the test but I would not recommend towing thinking you are ok because your combined weight is under 3.5t
 
competitiondiva said:
hahaha no you've just totally lost the plot!!!!

Martlin, my point was that the policeman who pulls you over doing vehicle checks (and believe me they are getting pretty hot on them working with defra etc!!) will base the fact that no B+E entitlement means no towing over a certain weight....... They see the mam on the trailer that says 2.6 tonnes, and one horse in it, they don't know what the weight with one horse on is, so either base it on the mam plate and book you for being over, or take/escort you to a weighbridge to be sure... which basically buggers up your day of what you were going out for!!!!

All i'm saying is for the sake of just getting a trailer downrated (not a hard job!) why risk anything????!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Im sick of this misinfomation YOU DONT NEED TO DOWN RATE A TRAILER THATS UNDER 3.5 TON IF YOU HAVE THE FULL INTITLEMENT ON YOUR LICENCE
if the police or VOSA belive you are overloaded the only way they can 'do' you is to take you to a weighbridge they carn't make laws up as they go along...
 
god its got complicated! im in the process of having training before my trailer test. My instructor said that unless you are 'old' (sorry) you have to have to do an extra test unless you only want to tow a box trailer (eg one that bearly holds a lawn mover). tbh i think people are crazy to even try and get around the law because if you get caught, as someone has already said, youl get a whacking great fine, 6 points, and if you had an accident i highly doubt that your horse insurance would be willing to pay. Also your insurance will go up because you will have been driving with no licence or insurance.
For the sake for a £115 test i would just do it!
Charlotte x
 
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