Towing with a horsebox

[cp1980]

I have a question:

Is there any legal issues (WATO or other such regulations) that say or suggest that you can't tow a trailer behind a horsebox if you only have a rear ramp.

Obviously it isn't ideal to have a trailer behind the only ramp that your horses can use, not always the most practical and could be a major headache in the event of an accident.

But would a VOSA or DEFRA(?) inspector or police officer pull you (over) and throw the book at you for this?

I regularly see horseboxes pulling trailers with carriages or caravans.

Such as this:

(Best example I could find LOL)

 

[cp1980]

Bump

Here is a photo of a caravan and carriage trailer, with portable stabling:

 

[perfect11s]

I have a question:

Is there any legal issues (WATO or other such regulations) that say or suggest that you can't tow a trailer behind a horsebox if you only have a rear ramp.

Obviously it isn't ideal to have a trailer behind the only ramp that your horses can use, not always the most practical and could be a major headache in the event of an accident.

But would a VOSA or DEFRA(?) inspector or police officer pull you (over) and throw the book at you for this?

I regularly see horseboxes pulling trailers with carriages or caravans.

Such as this:

(Best example I could find LOL)

No dont think there is any rule about being able to get the ramp down, however I think you could fall foul of the law regards licence intitlement
if the total weight of every thing is over 8200kg you need a hgv licence..and anything over 7500kg you would need to use the tachograph, ive seen horse box hire people towing vans and cars on an A frame behind horseboxes which is totaly illegal..

 

[Abbeygale]

I don't think it is HGV that you would need to drive something like that - you would want either C1 + E or C + E, depending on the size of the vehicle and the trailer. Straight HGV is rigid vehicles only - the +E denotes a trailer.

 

[cp1980]

however I think you could fall foul of the law regards licence intitlement

I'm aware of this already, thanks (but many friends are not/refuse to be aware!)

.
and anything over 7500kg you would need to use the tachograph

Said friends need to know about this one! Might finaly get their heads out of the sand on having trailer downrated to get it under 750 kg.

My OP was about the ramp v trailer issue specifically, but you raise some v. good points.

To avoid the tacho issue you have a 3.5t or medium-sized non-HGV (about 6t) which gives you capacity to tow a couple of tonnes or more without a tacho.

I spent a long weekend at a 3DE in a tent and, given the lack of funds for a luxary 'box, weather a horsebox pulling a reasonaly decent second hand caravan would serve the same purpose for a fraction of the cost.

 

[MrsMozart]

This used to be done a lot, back when I was a lass (yes, just after the last Ice Age lol), but there were a number of incidence where the caravan overturned .

 

[cp1980]

This used to be done a lot, back when I was a lass (yes, just after the last Ice Age lol), but there were a number of incidence where the caravan overturned .

Was it a frequent occurance with horseboxes? Any reason why this happend?

 

[perfect11s]

Was it a frequent occurance with horseboxes? Any reason why this happend?

horse box would be a very stable tow vehicle so it must have been one or more of- driver error, tyre/s failing, possibly drawbar the wrong hight, or caravan not loaded evenly......

 

[cp1980]

horse box would be a very stable tow vehicle so it must have been one or more of- driver error, tyre/s failing, possibly drawbar the wrong hight, or caravan not loaded evenly......

That would make sense.

I saw one old caravan looking overloaded with the towing ball well above the standard 500mm height: The chassis was bending like rubber bendy thing.

 

[perfect11s]

I'm aware of this already, thanks (but many friends are not/refuse to be aware!)



Said friends need to know about this one! Might finaly get their heads out of the sand on having trailer downrated to get it under 750 kg.

My OP was about the ramp v trailer issue specifically, but you raise some v. good points.

To avoid the tacho issue you have a 3.5t or medium-sized non-HGV (about 6t) which gives you capacity to tow a couple of tonnes or more without a tacho.

I spent a long weekend at a 3DE in a tent and, given the lack of funds for a luxary 'box, weather a horsebox pulling a reasonaly decent second hand caravan would serve the same purpose for a fraction of the cost.

Um I it wouldent make a jot of difference to plate the trailer at a lower weight... if the law or VOSA thorght you might be over they would take you to a weighbridge they would then do you if you were overloaded lorry or trailer , exceeding the trainweight, axel weights and or for having the wrong licence...
Maybe you would be better with a motor home and tow a horse trailer or yes you could tow a caravan or a trailer tent but why when a 7.5 can have living and carry 2/3 horses

 

[Mike007]

The problem is the high centre of gravity of a trailer compared with a truck. It was one of the first lessons given to me when I did my waggon and drag training(complete with video of how easy it is to roll a trailer with an iso tank on it.Because of the comparable weights ,you get a bit more warning in a car,with a truck ,a) its harder to feel that somthing is happening B) it is harder to see in the mirrors.and C) The tow hitch is generaly so far back from the axle(up to half the wheelbase)that even a slight turn gives the caravan an enormous whip.So yes caravans do roll easily behind a truck.

 

[cp1980]

Um I it wouldent make a jot of difference to plate the trailer at a lower weight... if the law or VOSA thorght you might be over they would take you to a weighbridge they would then do you if you were overloaded lorry or trailer , exceeding the trainweight, axel weights and or for having the wrong licence...

The law is clear: Without a trailer towing entitlement you may tow a trailer RATED at upto 750 kg.

A friend of mine pulls a trailer with a load that, in total, physically weighs less than 750 kg. However, it is rated at 1400 kg (this number is stamped on the manufacturer's plate on the chassis).

Therefore, as she can only tow upto 750 kg on her licence and as the trailer is RATED higher than this, her outfit unlawful EVEN THOUGH it weighes about 400 kg. Therefore I have recommened to her that she contacts the manufacturer (Ifor) to ask for a new, down-rated plate so the hoops are jumped through legally. They offer this service through their agents or customer care department.

There are two factors that determine how little you can down-rate a trailer. As you indeed state, it can't be heavier than the rating - other wise it would be overloaded in the eyes of the law. Secondly, the compenents are designed to operate between a minumum and maximum design rating.

Thankfully, in both cases my friend's trailer is OK. On the latter point, the tow hitch assembly states it is designed for min 750 kg max 1400 kg.

Maybe you would be better with a motor home and tow a horse trailer or yes you could tow a caravan or a trailer tent but why when a 7.5 can have living and carry 2/3 horses

In my OP I noted that horseboxes with good living (shower, heating, kitchen, etc) are very expensive. Motor homes are similarly over priced compared with what you can get on the used caravan market. It is tempting to convert my own motorhome from panel van, though.

However, I think that, in terms of capital cost, a used caravan pulled by a 'box with no living is better value for money than a 'box with living of equal specification. I'd guestimate it could be the difference of £5,000! (taking used prices as a guide).


i.e.

15 year old horsebox with FULL living (shower, heating, kitchen, beds, electrics) £10,000-15000 min

vs

15 year old horsebox with no living (hunting box, polo lorry style) £7,000-£10,000
15 year old caravan with FULL spec as above £1,500



I would also add that there is a practical advantage in being able to replace either you caravan or horsebox when one of them gets too old/goes wrong, rather than having to scrap the living section of a box for the sake of an MoT failure, if that makes sense.

 

[Mike007]

Unless the trailer is plated downrating has absolutely no meaning. What counts is the weight at the time A manufacturers design weight is of no significance except that the trailer should never exceed this weight.