traditional or nat horsmanship/western?????

[Loudabell]

right, I am seriously torn and would like some advice/thoughts please.....

I have a 6year old IDX. Owned him for 5 months now and previous to me owning him,he had been in Ireland and hunted. Nothing much else. i'm not into showing, not got the balls for cross country yet and only jump small jumps. this could change though as I get to know my boy better but ive never been seriously confident or competitive though so at the age of 32 is it likely too?

I am an intermediate rider although have had horses for ever. I've not got balls of steel and just want to have fun with my lad. we've already done a load of farm rides and have weekly lessons with my instructor. my horse is a sweet natured goon and has the potential to do anything and would turn his hoof to anything if asked.

we have been working on his schooling, getting him to work in an outline, canter on the correct lead etc real basic stuff for now and he can throw the odd tantrum if he doesn't want to do something. he has the potential to be strong and a bit rude but that is because he is a baby and has never been taught. he doesn't get away with his strop and then he soon gives up.

I have done some Natural Horsmanship work, with a friend, with him in-hand and have loved it. he's responded so well and is developing some nice manners. he will move out of my space now, back up and we've got him out of a serious biting habbit. I'[m loving the bond we are developing through it and he enjoys it. I've always been seriously interested in the natural horsemanship methods as I just think it makes a lot more sense to me.

In lessons though my instructor is all about 20m circles, inside leg, outside rein and of course after 45 mins he throws a wobbler as indeed I would. if he does something right, ie picks up the correct canter lead, we do it again and again to show him it was correct. well, it's not sitting with me well at all as surely he will start to resent his schooling work? we have had a couple of instructors and the lady I have at the moment has helped us to make real progress so I have stuck with her. she has helped me to get my lad lighter in the hands and so much more balanced. we are getting there and I do feel a sense of achievement as he;s improved and I've improved loads but.....

my friend rides western and has a very good instructor that uses a lot of natural horsemanship methods. the methods that she uses seem to make a lot more sense to me and seem kinder. it has been suggested that I use her western instructor to teach me and my horse but still in English tack etc. the instructor has done this before.

im seriously torn.

I want my lad to love his work
I want to not worry constantly that he is hating having his head forced in and being forced to circle all the time
I want to enjoy my lessons
go on farm rides
go to clinics
not feel like i'm trying to conform to something that doesn't suit me
be good at something rather than feeling like i'm always the less experienced or confident one!

BUT

I want to still jump a bit
be able to do the odd low level dressage test
not confuse the hell out of my horse
not teach my horse methods that will be difficult to reverse if we decide to do something different later on


do I suck it up, continue doing things the traditional way, perhaps consider another English instructor if mine gets stuck in a circle rut again?

or

try something different that might suit me a lot better? maybe it wont?

i'm open to all advice. I feel a massive responsibility to do the correct thing for this wonderful, young horse that I've waited my whole life for.

 

[epeters91]

Have you tried talking to your current intructor? IT seems a shame if you have improved so much with her that you are now considering dropping her altogether because of too much repeated work. Maybe if you explain that you feel your young horse is starting to get a little resentful of repetitive school and ask if there is something you can do to mix things up? You could use trotting poles on the circles to make them a bit more interesting maybe or switch between things to keep him thinking and interested

 

[wkiwi]

When you look at the science behind 'natural' vs 'traditional' horsemanship there is very little difference i.e. they both use a combination of positive and negative reinforcement (operant conditioning) plus classical conditioning. (See Xenophon 400BC, who basically gives the principles of both). They both 'work' because they are based on how the horse learns i.e. neither method (or their variations) would work successfully if they were against the horses nature, but there are many examples around of happy horses working in a variety of ways and having been taught with a variety of different methods.

However, it is how it is used that is the crucial thing and each individual instructor is different (I am sure many others on here, like me, could provide disaster stories they have seen of both types of training when not used correctly). The most important things are rewarding correct behaviour, being consistent, getting the timing right, breaking learning down into simple steps, and not over-facing the horse either physically or mentally.

 

[Enfys]

"



"if he does something right, ie picks up the correct canter lead, we do it again and again to show him it was correct. well, it's not sitting with me well at all as surely he will start to resent his schooling work?
"

Wouldn't we all? I think it is give and take with Instructors, sure, you are paying for the expertise, but you must also be able to have some input. If I had a youngster and he did the right thing, I would give him a long rein and call it a day for that particular exercise.

As for other methods rather than the traditional BHS I would say that if you feel something works for you and your horse, he understands it, you understand it, then do what you feel comfortable with. I see absolutely no reason why you cannot have Natural Horsemanship lessons with English tack, there isn't a rock with "Thou shalt not use more than one trainer" carved on it somewhere, so try the NH trainer, see how it goes, if you want jumping lessons etc, there is no reason not to find another trainer for that.

Riding is supposed to be fun, make it so

 

[JillA]

When you look at the science behind 'natural' vs 'traditional' horsemanship there is very little difference i.e. they both use a combination of positive and negative reinforcement (operant conditioning) plus classical conditioning. (See Xenophon 400BC, who basically gives the principles of both). They both 'work' because they are based on how the horse learns i.e. neither method (or their variations) would work successfully if they were against the horses nature, but there are many examples around of happy horses working in a variety of ways and having been taught with a variety of different methods.

However, it is how it is used that is the crucial thing and each individual instructor is different (I am sure many others on here, like me, could provide disaster stories they have seen of both types of training when not used correctly). The most important things are rewarding correct behaviour, being consistent, getting the timing right, breaking learning down into simple steps, and not over-facing the horse either physically or mentally.

^^^^ This. It doesn't need to be one or the other, you can take the good from both and ditch the bad. I suspect part of your problem is your instructor - why not find one who is known for being less prescriptive? Enlightened Equitation instructors are trained in subtlety and effectiveness without coercion, http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/teacher_find.htm or ask around other local riders for one who is effective without being too pedantic.