Ownedby4horses
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Thanks TP, that article is very helpful.
Tragic horse deaths from contaminated food
- Thread starter Polos Mum
- Start date
AFB
Well-Known Member
Horrific, I saw (part of) the H&H article last night.
Hopefully the remaining horse(s) pull through, I can't imagine how it must feel waiting.
Hopefully the remaining horse(s) pull through, I can't imagine how it must feel waiting.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
Wow. I thought I was being hasty feeding HAY 6 weeks after baling. Haylage, especially big bale, needs treating with much more caution than that. I've known a yard get half wiped out from feeding big bale haylage. In that case it was leaving big bales out in the field for ages and not clearing away so horses ate haylage that had gone off essentially.
How utterly utterly devastating for the owners and the vets and vet nurses trying to save them.
How utterly utterly devastating for the owners and the vets and vet nurses trying to save them.
shamrock2021
Well-Known Member
I feel sorry for the owners and the horses that suffered as a result.
SO1
Well-Known Member
How awful, but if haylage needs 6 weeks to cure then if it was baled in 1st week of Sept and feed this week then 6 weeks has passed so it would not be negligence just bad luck.
If was made later then that and fed too early and the decision was made knowing of the risks then that is very different matter.
The poor owners who have lost their horses. I expect a lot of people have no idea of the risks around haylage.
If was made later then that and fed too early and the decision was made knowing of the risks then that is very different matter.
The poor owners who have lost their horses. I expect a lot of people have no idea of the risks around haylage.
southerncomfort
Well-Known Member
How utterly dreadful. Poor owners must be so traumatised.
I imagine the yard owners are also going through hell.
Just doesn't bear thinking about. ?
I imagine the yard owners are also going through hell.
Just doesn't bear thinking about. ?
TinseLeneHorse
Well-Known Member
This is so sad for everyone affected, including the livery yard owners.
A few years ago there were a couple of horses affected at the yard I'm at. Initially it was though to be grass sickness but eventually was diagnosed as botulism thought to be caused by contaminated haylage. Both horses pulled through but only after intensive nursing at the vet school. No other horses were affected although they were all on the same haylage - it was put down to very localised contamination possibly a dead animal in the bale. No-one was to blame in our case, it was just one of those horrible random things that happen.
A few years ago there were a couple of horses affected at the yard I'm at. Initially it was though to be grass sickness but eventually was diagnosed as botulism thought to be caused by contaminated haylage. Both horses pulled through but only after intensive nursing at the vet school. No other horses were affected although they were all on the same haylage - it was put down to very localised contamination possibly a dead animal in the bale. No-one was to blame in our case, it was just one of those horrible random things that happen.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Just as general info you don't need a dead animal, if you mow too short/turn too close to the ground then soil contamination containing Cl. botulinum spores can be introduced to the bale.
Germination/growth of the above is usually inhibited by the reduction in pH generated by lactic acid bacteria (they also make other antimicrobial compounds). I don't think we do it here but elsewhere spraying with lactic acid bacteria or lactic acid is done before wrapping to help that process along. Otherwise it does rely on the correct moisture content and good wrapping to for the process to be completed well, but given the low incidence this is something that is usually managed well.
Germination/growth of the above is usually inhibited by the reduction in pH generated by lactic acid bacteria (they also make other antimicrobial compounds). I don't think we do it here but elsewhere spraying with lactic acid bacteria or lactic acid is done before wrapping to help that process along. Otherwise it does rely on the correct moisture content and good wrapping to for the process to be completed well, but given the low incidence this is something that is usually managed well.
RHM
Well-Known Member
This yard is really local to me and I had gone to look around it a year ago thinking about moving on. So unbelievably tragic for all involved. It is believed to be botulism poisoning.
Is there anyway of knowing if haylage is contaminated? My current yard makes most of theirs but occasionally buy some in of very variable quality! Would be good to know what we are supposed to be looking out for to avoid this in the future.
Is there anyway of knowing if haylage is contaminated? My current yard makes most of theirs but occasionally buy some in of very variable quality! Would be good to know what we are supposed to be looking out for to avoid this in the future.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
Yes, and as a general thing, farmers are all about getting as much off the land as possible, and when I made haylage on site I had an annual battle getting the contractor to not cut down to the base to avoid mud in the bales.
As a rule of thumb, I wouldn't feed this year's haylage until Christmas. I kept some over from the previous year for the start of the winter. If it's well made and well wrapped and stored properly (not all stacked on top of itself) it will be fine to feed the following year.
My heart goes out to everyone involved in this particular instance. What a tragedy.
Munchkin
Well-Known Member
It was five weeks baled and they were fed it on 12/10
SussexbytheXmasTree
Well-Known Member
I don’t think it’s helpful to speculate what’s happened although it’s obviously something we all want to learn about so that we can hopefully avoid it happening to us.
I’m not convinced feeding the haylage too early if indeed did happen actually makes a difference if botulism is the cause. The bacteria was already in the bales and afaik it’s a toxin produced by the bacteria which causes the deaths and I don’t think that would have been neutralised by being stored longer.
I’m not convinced feeding the haylage too early if indeed did happen actually makes a difference if botulism is the cause. The bacteria was already in the bales and afaik it’s a toxin produced by the bacteria which causes the deaths and I don’t think that would have been neutralised by being stored longer.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
It makes a difference because of the pH change over time.
Munchkin
Well-Known Member
I am not speculating.
Will not be commenting further.
Will not be commenting further.
The Jokers Girl
Well-Known Member
My thoughts to all those who lost their dear treasured friends over the last week ? ?
Ownedby4horses
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Munchkin, I have found your information helpful as have others who are worrying about the source of this toxin and whether other yards could be affected.
I think it is safe to say that our hearts are with everyone involved, from the poor owners, the YO and staff and vets who are I imagine desperately trying to stop any more horses dying.
it is safe to say that this will be a legal case and perhaps for that reason, no more information should be released and obviously we can continue to offer our heartfelt support to all affected. It could very well have happened to any of us, at any time. God bless all involved.
I think it is safe to say that our hearts are with everyone involved, from the poor owners, the YO and staff and vets who are I imagine desperately trying to stop any more horses dying.
it is safe to say that this will be a legal case and perhaps for that reason, no more information should be released and obviously we can continue to offer our heartfelt support to all affected. It could very well have happened to any of us, at any time. God bless all involved.
SussexbytheXmasTree
Well-Known Member
So if had been fed at the recommended 6 weeks instead of 5 the toxin will have been neutralised for want of a better word?
SEL
Well-Known Member
I've never really thought about a minimum storage time for haylage until reading this thread. How incredibly awful and unlucky for everyone involved - I really hope the other horses pull through.
Munchkin
Well-Known Member
Okay, one more comment... for clarity.
a) The horses had botulism with the highest level of certainty you can have before all tests are complete
b) The horses on hay were not affected
c) The haylage wasn’t 6+ weeks old
I am not suggesting that point c is relevant in what happened but it still suggests bad forage management.
None of the above three points are speculation.
Hope that helps. Please keep everything crossed for the one pony who is still fighting.
a) The horses had botulism with the highest level of certainty you can have before all tests are complete
b) The horses on hay were not affected
c) The haylage wasn’t 6+ weeks old
I am not suggesting that point c is relevant in what happened but it still suggests bad forage management.
None of the above three points are speculation.
Hope that helps. Please keep everything crossed for the one pony who is still fighting.
Ownedby4horses
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I will say a prayer that the pony survives. x
SussexbytheXmasTree
Well-Known Member
It’s absolutely tragic and it’s been praying on my mind as I’m sure it has with all of us who love our horses.
Hoping with all my heart that the pony survives.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
Munchkin,
please don't feel you cannot comment. Accurate information as to what has happened can only be helpful. People can be very catty on here.
If people now realise the risks of feeding haylage too soon it may have helped them. Everything crossed for the pony still fighting. This is going to be a very long fight if it makes it. Please come back and update us on it.
PurBee
Well-Known Member
This is such sad news. How awful for all the owners going through this heartbreak.
Botulism is always a risk with haylage.
Due to this risk, i personally believe that anyone who wants to supply haylage as animal feed should legally have to take a course in the vital aspects of making haylage correctly, be an ‘accredited supplier’ fully authorised, certificated and insured to guarantee their product.
The haylage industry needs to be regulated imo.
It’s really not easy to make good quality haylage. It cant be approached with a ’making wet hay’ mindset. When and how the crop is cut is different to hay, how its baled and raked has to be more careful, wrapping and storing is different to hay.
These kinds of mass horse losses are becoming more regular, and action needs to be taken - how devastating.
I’ve tested various haylage brands, many are over-fermented and vinegary, baled too wet, very few are ‘perfect’, many have had clumps of mud mixed in, which as ester says, can also contain clostridium and germinate botulism toxin.
The other end of the scale is way too dry, almost hay wrapped, and thus not fermented yet sold as ‘haylage’. Its simply sweated hay.
Haylage is a very good food source when properly made, but if moisture parameters are not strictly adhered to and obtaining a clean crop of grass without animal poop, dead mice and mud included, bad haylage harbouring toxins can be the result.
I now use 2 companies who have years of experience and consistent bales every year. It’s taken over 5 yrs to find such good quality haylage.
Botulism is always a risk with haylage.
Due to this risk, i personally believe that anyone who wants to supply haylage as animal feed should legally have to take a course in the vital aspects of making haylage correctly, be an ‘accredited supplier’ fully authorised, certificated and insured to guarantee their product.
The haylage industry needs to be regulated imo.
It’s really not easy to make good quality haylage. It cant be approached with a ’making wet hay’ mindset. When and how the crop is cut is different to hay, how its baled and raked has to be more careful, wrapping and storing is different to hay.
These kinds of mass horse losses are becoming more regular, and action needs to be taken - how devastating.
I’ve tested various haylage brands, many are over-fermented and vinegary, baled too wet, very few are ‘perfect’, many have had clumps of mud mixed in, which as ester says, can also contain clostridium and germinate botulism toxin.
The other end of the scale is way too dry, almost hay wrapped, and thus not fermented yet sold as ‘haylage’. Its simply sweated hay.
Haylage is a very good food source when properly made, but if moisture parameters are not strictly adhered to and obtaining a clean crop of grass without animal poop, dead mice and mud included, bad haylage harbouring toxins can be the result.
I now use 2 companies who have years of experience and consistent bales every year. It’s taken over 5 yrs to find such good quality haylage.
PurBee
Well-Known Member
Actually, if you cut for haylage in september where i live and tried to make haylage or hay from the crop, the biggest risk of poisoning would be from ergot on the seed heads.
Thats a neurotoxin to mammals and could mimic botulism Poisoning.
Thats a neurotoxin to mammals and could mimic botulism Poisoning.
SussexbytheXmasTree
Well-Known Member
If you’re referring to me I’m not “catty” but I don’t think it’s fair to cast blame when we only hear something from an anonymous unverified source.
Merrymoles
Well-Known Member
Feel desperately sorry for all involved but just wanted to add that my previous dealings with Hird and Partners have been very positive and there could not be better vets dealing with this. I am sure they are putting everything in to establishing the whys and wherefores and into caring for the remaining pony.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
I was referring to people in general not you. I am not casting any blame however when 18 horses die with a suspected toxin and have all been fed haylage then if you are familiar with botulism it is not rocket science to have a good idea as to why. I am afraid, sadly, I have heard this many time before.
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Its the stuff of nightmares
meleeka
Well-Known Member
To save me googling can anyone tell me if storing haylage for longer than 6 weeks kills botulism? I don’t currently feed haylage but I’m curious to know how botulism ends up in it.
munchkin - Thank you for the info. I don’t know how close you are to it all, but I hope you aren’t too badly affected x
munchkin - Thank you for the info. I don’t know how close you are to it all, but I hope you aren’t too badly affected x