Train methods....

[runaway]

Who uses what, why and with how much success? Am really curious on what methods are out there for doing basic training.

I have a 14wk old Collie who I'm going to train to work the sheep. My problem is what should I really be teaching him at this age and how? I used the treat over the nose to get a sit (suggested by a HHO member) and it's worked nicely. He is coming on nicely in some areas but is terrible in others, e.g. walking on lead.

I've also bought and watched "The Dog Listener" DVD!!! What on earth??? Feel training methods etc is a bit of a mine field like horse feed

All thoughts welcome please, thanks

 

[Booboos]

I am afraid I know nothing about sheepdog training, but I would imagine that a number of approaches may be useful?

I use clicker training which is reward based operant conditioning and find it very useful both for training and for overcoming problems. If you are interested in this I would recommend "Go Click" by Elizabeth Kershaw which goes through the basic principles and how to do the exercises.

Most cases of failed clicker training I have seen are usually down to the owner not the dog. Some people can't get the hang of clicking at the right time and some people seem confused over the "behaviour, then clicker then reward" sequence of events. I have only ever seen one dog that was impervious to clicker and that was an Afgan Hound (but it seemed impervious to everything!).

 

[Spudlet]

I use a variety of methods - clicker training but also plain food rewards and 'life' rewards, just to be difficult

I find clicker training great for teaching new behaviours such retrieves (including holding the dummy btw), roll over etc.

Plain old food rewards are for recall out and about.

Life rewards basically involved finding out what he wants to do and use it for a reward. Henry will turn to me on a certain whistle and either return or go to where I am pointing and sniff about in that location because he associates that whistle with the reward of hunting, and thinks I know something he doesn't about good sniffing places. I also drop treats sometimes when he is not looking and send him to find them, so he occasionally gets a reward beyond the sniff of a rabbit.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

[ QUOTE ]
Who uses what, why and with how much success? Am really curious on what methods are out there for doing basic training.

I have a 14wk old Collie who I'm going to train to work the sheep. <font color="purple">My problem is what should I really be teaching him at this age and how?</font> I used the treat over the nose to get a sit (suggested by a HHO member) and it's worked nicely. He is coming on nicely in some areas but is terrible in others, e.g. walking on lead.

I've also bought and watched "The Dog Listener" DVD!!! What on earth??? Feel training methods etc is a bit of a mine field like horse feed

All thoughts welcome please, thanks

[/ QUOTE ]


Should learn at so and so age? Hm,

I didn't know there was a time limit on training my dogs to do things?

I'm not a fan of clicker training and I think that what Booboos said about clicker training and those who fails with it, also works for non clicker training, it is about the timing, rewarding what you really want to reward and not what happens five seconds before or later.


Personally I try to not use "No!" unless it is really necessary, as in that they really are about to eat rat poison or running towards a motorway etc.

Try to take advantage of the opportunities when you spot them do something naturally that you can build on, as in they walk up to you (even when they're just passing by on the way to something else) = can be the base to a future recall, you see that they're about to sit down = say sit and praise etc.



Before you train, decide what you want to train during that session and focus on good quality training, rather than saying that this is the homework for this weeks puppy class, so we begin with A and do everything once or twice, until we reach Z. If they do something naturally that you hadn't planned on training, be open to taking advantage of the opportunity and change your training plan for that session.

Training several short sessions is better than one long session, especially when we are talking puppies or a new dog.



Remember that puppies have a lot of things to learn that you might not think about as training, different environments, new family, other dogs and being housebroken etc.
E.g. taking your puppy with you to the vets, going in and sit or walk around in their waiting room for maybe 15 minutes, before going home again, is also training.
Calmly praise your puppy sometimes when it is lying and relaxing indoors. Stop at walks, stand still or sit down and wait until your puppy waits together with you. To be inactive and wait until your owner tells you that it is time to do something again, is also training.




Decide your priorities, what is most important for yourself that your one day adult dog is able to do? Personally I would prefer having a 99,999999% safe recall rather than a dog that can do a whole list of things but only have a so and so recall.

Good luck, whatever you decide you want to teach your puppy.

 

[CorvusCorax]

The on lead training should work on the same principal as the sitting (I think I sent you that video of the young puppy doing the heelwork?)

You want something? You stay by my side and you look at me - make yourself the centre of the dog's planet.
He is still very young so I wouldn't stress out at this stage, just be teaching very small elements so as not to overwhelm him. I know dogs who are a lot older than that who have no lead manners!

Run backwards, lots of directional changes, keep the dog engaged with treats or a toy and your voice and encouragement, keep everything positive and fun, make the dog WANT to be with you.
This will not preclude you from getting the dog to work remotely when he is older.
He should act the same way on a lead and free.

Sheep herding is a manipulation of the prey and game drives so ball play and fetch is quite important too.

But like I say at this age, keep it simple and in short sessions/ bursts, dogs get bored very easily and you can sour a puppy by asking them too much, too soon.

 

[runaway]

Thank you everyone for your help I feel less anxious about whether I'm doing enough with him now. I know there's no time limits every dog is an individual. My concern stems from having had a lab which I wanted to train and it all went terribly wrong and I believe it was due to a lack of basic training - was also told this and that I wasn't firm enough with her!
Mac is doing so well and I use the principle of using his own behaviour and actions to train him e.g. when he sits telling him the command etc.
We have 3 terriers, do you think it would be better to walk Mac (pup) separately so that he is more likely to concentrate on me? He's not madly food orientated or toy mad, so I try to use a little of both to attrack his attention.

Thanks again everyone x

 

[CorvusCorax]

If you plan to do training with him then yes, I would do him seperately, they get too distracted in a pack to work and focus properly.
When B was in training they were walked seperately (I was half the person I am now

)

Conversely the other day when I was training his sister, I let him run free and have a bimble about but every time I said 'heel' he would run over and try and get his head between her and my knee, what a good boy

When he is older you can introduce the 'free' command so he knows that he is free to go once you have decided, that makes it easier when there is more than one dog involved and he may also work better for that command - so five minutes of sit and heel then 'free' off you go, back for another five, 'free', that may suit him better than rewarding with food or toys.