Training aids - lowering head

[vicm2509]

My instructor has asked me to use draw reins when riding my horse to encourage him to lower his head in trot.

I work him in as long and low as possible but although he stays 'on the bit' he has a highish head carridge in trot especially.

I am not a fan of draw reins, and also not too good at riding with 2 reins and keeping contact with them both. I am wanting something that is not severe and will encourage him to lower his head and work over his back but the pressure will release when he does so. Possible something I can ride and lunge in but riding is more important.

I was looking at the Market Harborough but this looks like it just pulls the head in and down and the rider need to release pressure but lessening contact on the reins.

Ive also been looking at the de gouge which seems to be quite nice.

I am not a great fan of riding with gadgets, my horse is ridden in a plain snaffle and cavesson noseband with no extra bits and bobs. I am doing this on advice of my instructor and want to find an alternative to draw reins before my next lesson

 

[samp]

How about an elastic bungee? it will realease when the horse lowers his head

 

[elliefiz]

id second that the elastic bungees are great and they are so cheap to buy aswell!!

 

[vicm2509]

If they really work it sounds like a great option, just seen one for £4 on ebay

 

[evsj]

I have this problem with mine. Has your instructor shown you how to get your horse working long and low without gadgets - this is always the best way. Assuming as well there is no physiological reason why he goes like this.
Anyway, if a gadget it must be, have you tried a harbridge? Attaches to the bit then runs down between front legs and attaches to the girth. Rider does not need to hold the device, it works by encouraging the horse to come down (device has elastic inserts too, and is adjustable) through increased pressure on the mouth when head comes up above the correct outline. I use one when I am hacking out more because mine has her head up looking at EVERYTHING otherwise. You can lunge/ride on flat in it but no jumping.

 

[Krysha_n_Helga]

i use a harbridge i think they are really good

 

[vicm2509]

Yes, I work him long and low a lot of the time and always when im warming him up, there is no physical reason, he is just still quite green and needs bringing on a little more. He still goes in a nice outline, she just wants me to encourage him to work deeper into it and thinks draw reins will help, which like I said im not a fan of.

It is just for the flat/lunging I am wanting something, im open to as many suggestions as possible.

Here is the difference in head carridge, this shows he can lower it but is not consistent

He hires it even more when making a canter to trot transition. In trot he loses contact quite a lot. I have done a lot of work with him since getting him last April, he used to be constantly on the forehand and snatching at the bit.

 

[samp]

I have tried all gadgets and found the bungee the bet of horses that tend to resent being asked to work long or low or when out hacking chuck their head up

 

[Forget_Me_Not]

Harbidge! Brillant after you have a long and low outline. The elastic bits will stop tension. And you can tighten it slowly as his muscles increase

 

[dressagespain]

I only have one comment to make as I would as a trainer recommend draw reins cos all these other gadgets are just variations of the draw reins. Why have the trainer if you are not going to do as he/she recommends?

In all honesty, the horse is actually working long and low enough as is - it is a common misconception about long and low for a young/green horse and can be overused. If you are not happy using a gadget such as a drawrein - try a martingale to start with, you will find the horse going in a better more balanced outline with this to start with.

 

[Sal_E]

I hate to say it but someone inevitably will so it may as well be me...

I am surprised that your instructor would recommend such a thing - you look to be doing really well with him & as such, it will be such a shame to now 'cheat' & create problems elsewhere (most likely tension related). From what you've said, it sounds as if you've got more to do in terms of improving his balance & getting him working through, but moving his head into a lower position won't solve any of that.

Any chance of getting a further opinion from another dressage instructor?

 

[Ashy]

Definitely recommend bungee reins. I had the same problem with my mare who had contact issues and I dont like gadgets. So lunged in side reins and progressed to riding with the bungee so she understood the link to ridden work. I used it twice and she was transformed! It only needs to come into play as a gentle reminder when the horse lifts its head. Its elasticated so even if they spook or throw a strop they dont feel restricted in any way.

 

[dressagespain]

"will encourage him to lower his head and work over his back but the pressure will release when he does so"

This is exactly what the draw rein does?? I don't get your point then? As long as you ride into the draw rein and it only comes into effect when the head is lifted, it will work as it is supposed to and you don't ride as such with 2 reins, you just hold the drawrein.

 

[vicm2509]

Ah ok, well maybe I will give them a try then, I just dont really like having to hold the reins and the draw reins aswell, I may get used to them the more I use them. And perhaps the bungee rein for lungeing.

The fact is im not keen on using and gadgets at all but im presuming that as my instructor has suggested them then they will do him good, she is a very good instructor and competes at high level dressage herself. She has ridden him and I do value her opinion.

I put side reins on him but only when he is in the walker, I generally tack him up and put them on really loose to encourage him to work low for a while before I get on him.

 

[dressagespain]

If you put the side reins on really loose, you may as well not put them on at all.

The idea is not for them to work low, what you are looking to achieve is the horse rasied its back and therefore relaxing into the work, this is why the head goes lower to allow the horse to do this.

I'd listen to your trainer, give the draw reins a go and see how you get on. We can only assume things having not seen you or your horse in the flesh.

 

[vicm2509]

When I say really loose I dont mean so loose that they are not effective I mean not tight as some people use them so they are actually pulling his head so far in he cannot move, he works nice with them in walk, salivates and rally works into them. My instructor suggested that from now on I set them lower on the girth than they usually are while hes in the walker.

I will give the draw reins a go and see where we go from there.

 

[clairencappelli]

Another bungee rein vote here. Im not a gadget fan but ive found it really helped my horse. Dont use it all the time i used it alternate schooling sessions and then less and less.

I have the john whittaker one it was a good bargin and only 9.99 . I tried the shires one but it came up really really short and wasnt very stretchy- not good on a long necked tb.

I either attach mine inbetween the frount legs or go the girth depending on why im using them in the first place.

 

[Bossanova]

I dont know why so many people have the mis-conception that if a horse's head is down and in, it's working through its back.
He looks super in the pics you've posted. You should aim for balance first, he has to learn to take more weight on his hind 1/4s into a steady contact. Once he's truly balanced you can alter the head position as you like but the head position should be the icing on the cake, not the starting point.
Long and low is fine for short periods of time but make sure it's that- not low with nose tucked in. Long and low should be the horse stretching forwards into the contact.

 

[evsj]

Trouble with draw reins is that if you don't ride effectively from behind the reins just encourage the head to come down without the back being engaged etc. Some horses that have had draw reins used incorrectly can develop a 'break' in the neck (muscle).
He looks like he doesn't really need the help though!!

 

[vicm2509]

Perhaps this shows what he is really like - better idea than the pics. He isnt always like this but this is the problem I am trying to overcome...

Trot video (not me riding so no comments on rider please)

 

[vicm2509]

My dressage test sheets also say inconsistent in contact, always on the trot. Ive only ever done 3 tests (were just starting now) and they all say the same.

I am really pleased with him and he does his best to please me, I would never have put anything on him to ride if my instructor hadnt suggested it. I just thought that as she suggested it then I should do something about it. Im not really happy (or confident) riding in draw reins, hence looking for an alternative. Also wanted something to lunge in as I like to do a lot of ground work.

 

[evsj]

How old is he? No offence meant to the rider in the video but her hands are not steady which won't be helping him. Consistancy took ages with my mare - and a change of bit and sadddle!

 

[vicm2509]

He is 7, I got him in April when he was 6 but he had a year off work before that so IMO he is a year behind what he should be.

Could that possible be why trot is the hardest then? Due to rising up and down it makes the hands unsteady? I know to a certain extent I can be guilty of the same thing.

 

[evsj]

[ QUOTE ]
My dressage test sheets also say inconsistent in contact, always on the trot. Ive only ever done 3 tests (were just starting now) and they all say the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's very early days for you both! I must have done about 20 tests in the last 4 years on mine and we still get the same comments (tense horse, not going forward etc etc despite all the good work we do at home, it some comes unravelled in a test)!! I wouldn't use draw reins if I felt unsure about them.

 

[dressagespain]

I would seriously consider a martingale to start with. They help to balance and staedy the horse without you having something extra to hold onto. A lot of horses go much better in this. Also get a balancing rein (the little strap that goes between the D's), you hook your thumbs into this to help keep your contact more consistent and away you go! Practice makes perfect!!

 

[evsj]

I wouldn't feel qualified to say and obviously, your trainer is the best person to advise you.
My instructor constantly nagged me about keeping my hands still (one of my many habits too). I found trot easier to get consistancy but that's because mine went forwards better in that gait.
Maybe if your instructor suggests draw reins, you get her/him to give you a couple of lessons to show you how to use them correctly?

 

[samp]

I would say the hand movements would not be giving you a consistent contact with your horses mouth. Try a balance strap to hold on to and see what happens. Your horse has a lovely trot and think it is a babyish thing really. it will just take time but try a bungee as you need very quite hands for draw reins

 

[4whitesocks]

Just to say I had a post about this recently - my instructor has recommended the same thing for me & I have really battled with it....my old instructor is totally anti them - mainly from a safety perspective as in if a horse has a paddy about something then there's nowhere for them to go....on the other hand i had a lesson in them on Tuesday night and my boy went brilliantly...after about 15 minutes they weren't in play at all, in fact I had a really light contact with my regular rein, draw rein loose & he was really comingu p underneath me.
I found it messy at first to manage both reins. It felt a bit safer as I was in a lesson & knew if I wasn't using them properly she was there to correct me.

I think I'm going to try another lesson in them and then make a call on it

Good luck whatever you decide

 

[Partoow]

Ok sorry but you dont need to draw this horse down. This would 'break the neck' in a down ward way but the actual 'problem ' if you want to call it that is that he needs to learn to carry you a little more in his own balance.
This would be achieved if you would BEND YOUR ELBOWS!. You would not believe how many times a day that a shout this this why ive put in bold. So you are not alone. The only reason we have reins is because our arms are'nt long enough to hold the bit rings. There should always then be a straight line from the bit rings to your elbow with your elbow bent and above your hip. Think of there being lead in your eldows and helium in your hands, so you hand wants to float..Then think of keeping the bit still relative to the horse not relative to you. To get this idea imagine holding a tray with glasses on it full of gin and tonics and then ride around the school turns ,circles rising trot, without your glasses falling off, therefore keeping it level and still. This is then what happens to the bit. It becomes still and even in the hand and then you are ready to be able to work on the connection with your horse and how he understands it.
Your horse looks lovely and he has trot he is tending to go onto your hand rather than carry on his hind leg. This will also explain the problem with the trot/canter trans. By learning how to stabilise this connection you will start to see him need your hand less and work more from the hind leg to the connection, thus softening at the poll and that is really where your lack of 'roundness is. you do need help learning how to do this as everyone needs eyes on the ground. This is about how us as riders communicate with the horse and we must look at our own riding when we have difficulties.
Please dont use a gadget you will only put him more on his head and that would be a pity as he obviously hes a lot to give . I dont want to say anything against your instructor but this would not be my coarse of action and i have trained and do train a lot of people and this is not something i would use on a relatively easy combination. Its not a difficult problem to solve . Good luck you look like you have great promise.

 

[Sags_Deer]

well please dont take offence to this but i really dont see why you need any gadgets at all you just need to keep your hands still, imagine how your horse feels with your hands moving.. Maybe try swapping trainers your horse looks nice. and get a trainer that will get on and show you what to do. its the leg to hand thing.