Training re sheep worrying - Somerset area

[Broodle]

Hi All

One of my dogs has taken down a sheep I contacted the farmers straight away, who were incredibly gracious in the circumstances. I have, of course, compensated them financially, and given them my most heartfelt apologies They have very very kindly agreed not to press for my dog to be put down.

The fact that it happened was entirely my fault - we were walking in a new area and I had no idea that there were sheep grazing there so the dogs were off-lead. They ordinarily have excellent recall, but I saw them head off after the sheep a second too late to be able to get them before the red mist descended My younger dog (2 yrs) took down a lamb and gave it some pretty deep throat wounds, which will mean it will have to be shot The older dog joined in the chase, but didn't participate in the attack. I am practically 9 months pregnant and was just too slow to get there in time to intervene

I am normally so so vigilant, as younger dog has form from when she was a pup, but I totally failed this time

Please don't reply with vitriol - I already feel badly enough... What I need is advice. The farmers were of the view that it is not worth trying to scare younger dog by putting her in a pen with rams or similar, as now she has tasted blood it just won't work. Any thoughts on this? Is there anything else I can do? Any recommendations for good Somerset-based trainers who might be able to help??

I will obviously be even more careful to avoid sheep in the future or have her on the lead if I'm at all unsure whether there are any around, but is there any hope that training could help, just in case I ever end up in this dreadful situation again??

Please be kind - I am a bit of an emotional wreck right now

 

[Broodle]

After a bit of googling I found a website (link below) for Angela Stockdale, who apparently can provide training for livestock aggression problems. Does anyone have any information, good or bad, about her and her methods?

http://www.dogpartnership.com/livestock.htm#four

 

[Dobiegirl]

I am pming you with someone who maybe able to help.

 

[Jools1234]

not really sure how to offer help, what a nightmare, in your shoes I would avoid sheep dont think there is a lot else you can do.

2 full brothers to my lurcher were homed separately and both attacked sheep in their new homes. when the first one did it the breeder had him back and a good friend of his took the dog on, he was a game keeper on a large estate so could control the dogs environment to a large extent, but the dog got out and killed again-he was put down.
the second dog was taken back by the breeder and went to the same friend he has never really shown an interest in sheep again, there is huge doubt as to how much exersize and stimulation this dog was getting

I would speak to the farmer and see if he knows anyone but on the whole if they have that prey drive its tough to stop it cos sheep always run if scared-keep your dog muzzled and on a lead if you are in any doubt that there may be sheep in the area,

good luck with the birth of little one

 

[Broodle]

Thank you both so much for your replies. Good advice about the muzzle - I hadn't thought of that at all.

 

[Broodle]

Dobiegirl - I have been trying to reply to your PM, but for some reason I don't seem to be having any success. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks very much for the recommendation - will give him a call this afternoon.

 

[camilla4]

Thank you both so much for your replies. Good advice about the muzzle - I hadn't thought of that at all.

It is a good piece of advice, Broodle, but do bear in mind that this won't prevent any damage caused by a dog simply chasing a sheep - running through fence/ losing lamb etc.

So sorry to hear about your nightmare - really hope you can find some way of sorting this!!

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

Please don't reply with vitriol - I already feel badly enough... What I need is advice. The farmers were of the view that it is not worth trying to scare younger dog by putting her in a pen with rams or similar, as now she has tasted blood it just won't work. Any thoughts on this?

.......

Please be kind - I am a bit of an emotional wreck right now

Well, you've stood up, faced up to it, and accepted responsibility. I keep sheep, and I can assure you that most leg it into the distance.

Generally, those dogs which press home determined attacks, whilst their owners are present, and who they ignore, do so because there is a complete lack of discipline. The problem isn't the dog's natural desire to kill a sheep, but the fact that the dog needs to be taught that when you blow the stop whistle, or you bawl at it, then you WILL be obeyed.

I've never been the greatest fan of those who will throw a dog into a pen with a ewe and her lambs. Expecting the dog to listen to a sheep, is a pointless exercise, the dog must learn to heed it's owner. It can be done.

Alec.

Ets. Send the dog to boot camp, HERE if you like. Your dog will learn quickly, but it will be of no use if you don't maintain the work which is done, on your behalf. a.

 

[AmyMay]

Just keep the dogs on a lead where there is livestock, or you suspect there might be.

 

[CorvusCorax]

A previous forum member (not sure if she is still around) had a very good word for a trainer called Jim Greenwood for this issue.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Broodle I have received your pms and have replied again.

I think the op is being very honest and could have quite easily have walked away especially as she is 9months pregnant. The fact she contacted the farmer knowing full well he could have insisted her dog was pts is the action of a very responsible person who deserves all the help she can get.

 

[Broodle]

Thank you all for your replies. I have contacted the trainer (also a sheep farmer) recommended by Dobiegirl and he is going to help.

Alec - The chap I spoke to said exactly the same as you. Perhaps I have been deluded, but I thought that I had good discipline with my dogs and, normally, when I yell bloody murder at them they commando crawl back to me with their tails between their legs. But clearly they don't respect me as much as they should, or as much as I thought they did We are going to work on this, that's for sure. I really appreciate your bootcamp offer, and will definitely bear it in mind if that's ok?

 

[Broodle]

PS I am all too aware that even 'just' chasing sheep is potentially very damaging and not at all acceptable. I only mentioned in my original post that my older dog chased but didn't attack because it seemed the lesser of two evils, and she at least did come back reasonably quickly when recalled.

 

[Aru]

Id be keeping them on lead in any green areas from now on.you can never be sure when there will be livestock unless its your own lands and its irreponsible to let them lose when they have shown to be untrustable.Training or not sheep chasers/killers lose off lead privlidges as there should be no option of a next time when they are lucky to have escaped a death sentence this time... that's said you dealt with is very well and im sure the farmer appreciates that. and I am so sorry to hear your dogs let u down so badly.you sound like you are a very responsible owner.

 

[Kaylum]

Keep on a lead if you have a dog near any livestock, where we live they have cows in the field and there are signs everywhere to keep dogs on a lead. It's part of being a responsible owner. fact I am afraid. Don't risk it. A woman I used to work for her dog was shot as it was chasing sheep.

Have to say it would be good if owners of livestock put up signs. At least you told the farmer good on you x

 

[Clodagh]

You poor thing, what a nightmare. My lurcher, once she is running, completely ignores me but she is obedient at other times, luckily she is fine with sheep so it hasn't been a problem. Now, on a deer farm I would have issues.
All the best with fixing it and I do hope you can.

 

[Luci07]

Just to say well done for manning up like that. I am interested to read there are trainers who can teach livestock control from a safety perspective. Cows are fine as my dogs view them in the same light as horses but I have always avoided sheep like the proverbial plague.

 

[zippo]

As a farmer,I will say,NO matter what your trainer says or does ,never,never let the dog/s off the lead again.None of us like shooting dogs but I am afraid we do it regulary and are then told,that the dog has never done that before.Are you aware that the sheepowner could have gone to the Police and requested that the dog/s be taken and put down.

 

[Broodle]

Thanks for all your comments, folks. I feel a little better about things today, now that we have a plan.

As a farmer,I will say,NO matter what your trainer says or does ,never,never let the dog/s off the lead again.None of us like shooting dogs but I am afraid we do it regulary and are then told,that the dog has never done that before.Are you aware that the sheepowner could have gone to the Police and requested that the dog/s be taken and put down.

I was fully aware that the farmers could have insisted on my dog being pts when I contacted them. If they had brought it up I would have asked for leniency on the basis of my plans for re-training and increased vigilance, but was prepared to go through with it if necessary

Although I can see why you think the dogs should now never be off-lead again, we are lucky that most of our walking is forestry and moorland where there are guaranteed to be no sheep or other vulnerable livestock. Of course, they will now always be on leads where I have any doubt about livestock.

ETS I don't expect the training to change the above btw, I only hope that it will provide an extra back-up in extremis and also shore up our clearly crumbly discipline.

 

[Dry Rot]

As a farmer,I will say,NO matter what your trainer says or does ,never,never let the dog/s off the lead again.None of us like shooting dogs but I am afraid we do it regulary and are then told,that the dog has never done that before.Are you aware that the sheepowner could have gone to the Police and requested that the dog/s be taken and put down.

Here in the UK a farmer has the right to shoot a dog that is clearly out of control if there are sheep in the same field, whether it is worrying stock or not. He has to report the incident to the police (and, I think, hand over the dead dog) but that is all.

Most young dogs will chase sheep the first time they see them, just out of curiosity. The thing is to be prepared for the problem and nip it in the bud. I am very surprised that the OP's dog so savagely attacked the lamb that it had to be destroyed as it usually takes a few incidents for them to learn how to kill. If you have two dogs loose at the same time, the danger is doubled as they are then a pack.

The worst thing you can do if your dog chases sheep is to run after it shouting as most simply interpret that as encouragement! Best to call and run in the opposite direction. That sometimes works. Other than that, find a local shepherd and ask for his help in re-training the dog. (There's at least one on here). I wouldn't recommend a trainer for the simple reason you want to do the job under conditions as near to those under which the problem occurs as possible.

 

[Broodle]

Thanks for your reply dry rot. The chap who is going to help us is a sheep farmer and sheep dog trainer, so I have confidence that he will do well by us. He doesn't seem the type to mince his words, and is by all accounts not a fluffy bunny type.

I was astounded at the savagery tbh. This dog chased and cornered a lamb at foot when she was a pup but did no damage. So has form, but not in this league. Thought we'd stamped on her enough back then, and since, but clearly not

As an aside, yesterday she left the lamb as soon as it was down and imobile, and slunk back to me on her belly.

 

[Luci07]

Growing up, my neighbour ended up with a really bad sheep killer. He was obsessive. She could not let him out in their garden ( which kept everything else in) as he was gone and sheep hunting. He was PTS as they didn't think there was any way back for him.

actually around us, there are not always signs up saying stock is in the field. There is one great field on a hack but invariably if we have dogs with us, we won't go through as cant see if anything is there till we are halfway in.