Training

[Clodagh]

This is a gundog book but I’m posting it here as a lot of it is good for all training.
(I mean, ultimately mainly what you want a gundog to do is the same as a pet, recall, heel, stay, give things up to the handler).
I expect lots of people have read it but it new to me. It’s all positive training, and just very easy to read and simple. I need simple.
What I found very interesting is it says people that say dogs work for praise also have to use aversives to back up, as all dogs work for rewards (food, play, whatever) better. I’m no guru and do use aversives as well eg I can scream like a banshee and have been known to throw clods of dirt.
Anyway, anyone wanting lightish reading it’s worth a look.

 

[twiggy2]

This is a gundog book but I’m posting it here as a lot of it is good for all training.
(I mean, ultimately mainly what you want a gundog to do is the same as a pet, recall, heel, stay, give things up to the handler).
I expect lots of people have read it but it new to me. It’s all positive training, and just very easy to read and simple. I need simple.
What I found very interesting is it says people that say dogs work for praise also have to use aversives to back up, as all dogs work for rewards (food, play, whatever) better. I’m no guru and do use aversives as well eg I can scream like a banshee and have been known to throw clods of dirt.
Anyway, anyone wanting lightish reading it’s worth a look.

I find it odd that those that say dogs don't work for praise but work for reward don't see praise as a reward...
With most of our collies if I gave them the choice between a cuddle and a food reward they would snuggle in for a cuddle. Of course the reward for the collies is more work.
I use adversives too, 'No' hollered across the hill is very effective for one of mine and then I can re direct her, she can be headless and headstrong in equal measures somedays

 

[stangs]

I find it odd that those that say dogs don't work for praise but work for reward don't see praise as a reward...

I think praise can be a reward but owners' ideas of what praise/affection as a reward is is more likely to be aversive than food or toy rewards.

A depressing number of people want to "reward" their dogs by patting them on their head, pushing their face up against the dogs, screeching at them what a good boy he is, etc, and don't realise that the dog is cringing trying to get away from them. These people think they're rewarding their dogs whilst the dog perceives it as punishment.

 

[Clodagh]

I used to say dogs should work because we tell them to (praise) and with a super driven dog like Ffee it’s great, she won’t take a treat if she can retrieve but her recall is sharpened by one.
A reluctant dog like Scout really does need a bit of motivation.
So no longer do I say they should do it for nothing. I use treats and rewards like a thrown ball. I also praise a lot.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'm sure we all know spaniels and collies that would work until they dropped because they love it. A lot of people come into my sport from these sorts of breeds and their dogs 'do everything' but look as flat as pancakes and then when they are told to be a bit more motivational, they say the dog should 'just do it because I told them to'. There's no happiness or joy or harmony, just function. Which is fine if you like that sort of thing but can lead to dogs looking pressured/stressed.
Some dogs do just work for fun/because they love it but a lot of those lines are dying out because the pet market doesn't want a dog that wants to go go go all day.
I don't work for free/to be told I'm a great girl and I don't expect the dog to either.

 

[twiggy2]

I suppose the most important thing is to find the 'motivators' for each individual dog and also to realise that they can change in different circumstances for each dog.
I have pretty much loads worked because I enjoy the job (there have been exceptions) or the company is the motivators if we are going to look at our own motivators, if I hated a job I would find another.
That is how it works for our collies too, if the dog is not motivated enough to do the job day in day out we find then a good pet home.
The hardest dog to train that I had came to me at 12 weeks old, it took almost a year to teach him to play with a toy and probably a similar time for him to become food motivated, he was easily flattened emotional and hard to re engage, ended up being one of the 2 best trained and motivated dogs I ever had, once he had learnt something he loved to do it but it was really hard to boost his confidence enough to get him to try something new in the early days.

 

[Clodagh]

In the book it explains how to teach a dog to play if they won’t. I’m going to try to get Scout to play tug, I’m not sure it will be possible at his age but I’ll follow the instructions and give it a go. He’ll take treats while retrieving but as he’s prone to spitting dummies and isn’t keen on holding them any longer than he need to they aren’t always the answer for him.