Treeless question from a treeless sceptic, aimed at endurance bods especially

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poghag

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I've researched, but ultimately steered clear of treeless as I can't get beyond the stirrup bar/pressure point issue. Am slightly disillusioned with my chosen saddle, and am going to experiment with increased longlining and possibly treeless (albeit if I go the treeless route, I still think I might keep trotting to a minimum and either walk or canter, staying in the saddle) to see if I can rebuild lost muscle behind the withers.

Quite interested in treeless Westerns, and in the past have been pointed towards Hilason and the Barefoot Nevada. Interested in any treeless endurance bods - if you had pressure point issues, you'd know about it, surely. Or any saddle option with a subapad, perhaps.

Opinions please, from people who do a LOT of ACTIVE riding in their treeless. Not interested, to be frank, in those horses who have lovely padding behind withers, "all because of their treeless saddle", when they only get sat on half an hour a week at walk.

Thanks all.
 
Sorry, my opinion is only limited to my research of treeless. I was going thru hell trying to work out a saddle for a horse who's back is difficult to fit. Initially I really liked the idea of treeless after initial reports, but then found the further and deeper I dug, that later people who used treeless beyond a year or two started having back issues again. I think short term they sound fab, but then in many cases it goes wrong again.

I ended up going to a Reactor Panel saddle. They are fairly popular with the endurance lot, but are pretty darned heavy. Most of the opinions I garnered were from Endurance folk with pure bred arabs (I have a pba).

FWIW, I don't do endurance, but dressage. I just happen to have a really odd shaped back (well, the horse does!). One year on, there is a huge improvement.

Check out Arabian Lines -- lots of endurance folk on there.
 
We originally got our treeless as a 'spare' saddle for the off season when my horse was too fat for his regular saddle. We used it more and more, and then bought another, and now the treeless are our main saddles. We've got the dartmoor/exmoor treeless and I think they do a western version. They have a diamond shaped mesh in an attempt to spread the weight over the saddle rather than a single stirrup strap over the back. They also have a gullet.

As with anything, it depends on the horse. But I've done up to 80km in mine and have used it on four different horses (albeit horses with similar back shapes - 2 round arabs and 2 araby welshy pones). The jury is out as to whether it would be up to longer distances but all the while it isn't causing a problem we'll stick with it.
 
I have a solution saddle and think they're the bees knees. Plenty of people use them for much longer than a couple of years and don't have any issues as so much research has been done into the pressure points. (One of the reasons for the price.) I've had Louie in it for about 6months now and the difference to his way of going is huge. He's got better paces uses himself so much better than before and jumps like a stag. I've had no back issues yet and had a fitter come out yesterday and comment how much muscle he had over his back (very dainty pony who's still angular so to be told he's got a lot of muscle is huge.)

I'm not an endurance rider but he's ridden 6 days a week for a minimum of an hour. He does 2/3 days schooling and jumping and 3 days hacking sometimes a just a plod around the woods but mostly lots of fast work around 4 hours a hack. We also visit the gallops frequently so one very fit pony.
 
PucciNPoni said:
... but then found the further and deeper I dug, that later people who used treeless beyond a year or two started having back issues again. I think short term they sound fab, but then in many cases it goes wrong again.
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With you on that.

PucciNPoni said:
I ended up going to a Reactor Panel saddle. They are fairly popular with the endurance lot, but are pretty darned heavy. Most of the opinions I garnered were from Endurance folk with pure bred arabs (I have a pba).
Click to expand...

I considered Reactors, just ended up with another back-friendly top brand. I guess, with both dressage AND jump "back-friendly-top-brand" saddles (to the tune of over 4 grand), I was looking for a short-term cheap option just while horses is relegated to casual hacking and longlining while I'm in latter stages of pregnancy and until eventing can begin again.

PucciNPoni said:
I just happen to have a really odd shaped back (well, the horse does!). One year on, there is a huge improvement.

Check out Arabian Lines -- lots of endurance folk on there.
Click to expand...

Great that you've found something that really works for you - my horse is a lean ISH, with withers (so probably very unlike most Arabs), not hard to fit at all, just hard to keep weight on and hard to build up correct muscles with because he is long, and finds it hard to really reach through, and I do not have a school.

Thanks though - keep all opinions coming.
 
Kokopelli said:
I have a solution saddle and think they're the bees knees.
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I like the fact that your pone is "angular" as well - that sounds like mine. Would you use this with a subapad or similar? I guess second had Solutions are fairly easy to come by also?
 
Gulp. Just looked at Solutions. They certainly aren't a cheaper option either are they?!

Does anyone have opinions on the Balance system? One of my options is to keep a wider headplate on my current saddles (alright, I'll come out with it, I've got Wows, and love the jump one but have issues with the dressage one), and pad up underneath to encourage musculature. Totally defeats the object of having a Wow, I know, which is why I'm so disappointed, but looking at all possible options now as I would like to persevere with Wow.

Interestingly, horse has done this headplate-wise with his Wows:

2-3-2-1-0-1-2-3-4-3-1

With 0 being pretty damn narrow and 4 being reasonably wide I think. At 0 he was 3-day fit and I just couldn't get enough food in him, at 4 he was on amazing grass and was regularly lunged and schooled, but he is a barefootie and the amazing grass compromised his feet... and we have moved to an ideal barefoot set up but I will never get that amount of weight on him again... but very disappointed that, partly because of saddles being not quite right, he's dropped 2 headplate sizes in last 4 months, partly because of not having a school so lunging/schooling is out the window.

Keep your opinions coming folks xx
 
I have had treeless saddles for many years. Bought a torsion when they were first available in this country. Long before Dream Team began supplying them. I've still got it and still use it. But now I like to have a saddle that I feel more secure in! I have a solution saddle which I really love. It fits all 3 of my horses. A specialist fitter can adjust the pad so it will fit any shape. I bought it as I was having terrible trouble finding a saddle to fit one of mine. His way of going has changed incredibly since using the solution saddle. Money well spent. I also have a nickers hybrid sensation saddle which I also really like. You would not need a suber pad with a solution saddle - just get it fitted by one of their agents. They will do this for you even if you buy one privately. You can try before you buy - the charge is £50 per week. I tried mine for a fortnight and bought it. Then the charge does not apply.
 
I got mine mega cheap secondhand, they do tend to really keep their secondhand value making buying one less scary. I did save for ages to buy mine and was so pleased with the result. Rather than have a fitter out first I spoke to lots of knowledgeable people on which was the best one to get (its a freestyle) then tracked one down off eBay then had someone come out and fit it. It was a bit of risk but hightl unlikely the saddle wouldn't have fitted without pads etc.

A good place to look for secondhand ones is the unofficial solution saddle Facebook page. A lot seem to have come up for sale recently because everyones upgrading to the smart ones.
 
I started endurance in a Thorogood Endurance saddle, but found my youngster wasn't developing as I wanted through her back & bucked when first mounted. Don't get me wrong, she came 3rd in the south east in her novice year off only 8 rides (up to 10 count to trophy). I switched to a Podium saddle (which is treeless) over the winter when I upgraded her to intermediate (now called open), & it was a revelation. We have done countless miles (she upgraded the end of that year to advanced after coming 3rd in the intermediate trophy again off limited rides - finances). She retired from competition aged 9 due to freak injury when being lead in. I still do low level graded rides & PR, not to mention hours of training in her podium, & have backed her daughter who is now also working in her mums podium. I adore it, they both have fantastic backs. Podiums don't have stirrup bars, they are based on old cavalry saddles with a rigid frame the length of the saddle onto which everything (Including stirrup leathers) attach, which is why you have to use caged stirrups with them as there is no safety mechanism for detachment in emergency. There was one UK supplier, a saddler who's number I have. Very good, honest guy. In the 10 years (is that a lon enough trial for you?;)) I've had to replace one air bag & that's it.

See a few western ssaddles in endurance but not many. To be frank most western saddles are so heavy riders don't want to carry excessive weight that is not essential.
 
They aren't often for sale, as limited supply. If you want further info I can pm you saddlers number. They are marmite saddles, love them or hate them. You sit slightly higher above the back, & with no panels you learn to sit up as it basically feels like riding beareback with stirrups, you can feel everything the horse does. When you go back to a standard treed saddle, it's like all the signals are being muffled.



80 km, Berkshire Downs, Grade 1. Setting out on second circuit. I don't have a badly conformed horse, the field is on a slope!

On my friends stallion. 30km, grade1.

 
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poghag said:
Gulp. Just looked at Solutions. They certainly aren't a cheaper option either are they?!
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When you consider the fact that you no longer need saddle fitters, reflocking, and new saddles every few months, they actually work out as a better option.

I have a Solution. My cob was in full work for 5mths in his Smart saddle - 6 days per week, hacks were often upto 2.5hrs, plenty of trotting. No soreness, no problems, he was happy in it, I was happy, it looked conventional and they're mega comfy. Worth the money, IMO.
 
Another vote for the Solution here! I have had mine on 6 horses now, all tb or sporthorse types and hunted two of them in it. They all, without exception, go better in it than anything else and one I hunted in it became a much tidier jumper almost instantly. Definitely worth the money imo and I wouldn't use anything else now.
 
Poghag I have a pure bred arab he is wide but has quite a high wither he has some wastage behind the shoulder and struggles to maintain top line, I had an Ideal that became too narrow on him but saddle fitter were telling me it was too wide but they were trying to fit it to the wastage, I tried a treeless and he went really well in it but I wanted to show him so wanted a treed saddle, I have a Lavinia Mitchell saddle now and its the best thing I ever did, I still have to shim it as she fits the saddle wider so they eventually fill it out with the lost muscle, he has a very big trot movement and it does not block this in any way like the other saddles did, have a look on her website saddles are not cheap but I think worth every penny for me anyway.
 
Had a torsion for years on a high withered tb, only sold it when I lost her. Great saddle. Currently using a cheap n cheerful Libra on the new cb who has some muscle wastage and the change in her way of going has been impressive. I use it with a shimmed haf pad. No jumping atm but lots of difficult terrain at all paces.
Intend to try the heather moffat soon too. My youngster will be coming into work next year and I have no intention of going back to treed. Ever!
 
Another brand of treeless saddle you may like to investigate is Freeform (NOT the cheap copies - like any saddlery you get what you pay for) I am not an endurance rider, though I was put onto the brand by a friend who is. My Welsh mare is a shape-shifter and quite a complicated fit with big shoulders, short back and withers. She likes the Freeforms (we now have two!!) very much indeed and once you've got the 'horse-side' of the saddle set up you can alter the seat and stirrup bar position on them. You will need a specialist pad - I use suber pads under my two.

I ride nearly every day either scampering over moorland or up and down steep West Country hills.

Like any saddle treeless models do not suit or fit every horse/rider combination - it's really best if you can try out a few styles and it can take a bit of experimenting to get the set-up just right for you.
 
Happytohack said:
I have had treeless saddles for many years. Bought a torsion when they were first available in this country. Long before Dream Team began supplying them. I've still got it and still use it. But now I like to have a saddle that I feel more secure in! I have a solution saddle which I really love. It fits all 3 of my horses. A specialist fitter can adjust the pad so it will fit any shape. I bought it as I was having terrible trouble finding a saddle to fit one of mine. His way of going has changed incredibly since using the solution saddle. Money well spent. I also have a nickers hybrid sensation saddle which I also really like. You would not need a suber pad with a solution saddle - just get it fitted by one of their agents. They will do this for you even if you buy one privately. You can try before you buy - the charge is £50 per week. I tried mine for a fortnight and bought it. Then the charge does not apply.
Click to expand...

Do you still have your ss saddle and do you recommend?
 
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