Kenzo
Well-Known Member
Yes it has a part 1 and a part 2 because just as I hit post it button, it came back telling me it was too long so you'll need to read this first then my part 2.
Well last night I tried the two saddles and I shall try to explain my findings and views on various things, you may want to stick the kettle on Ill warn you this could be long!
First of all the Freemax:-
Lets just say it's not quite what I expected, I can only describe it as a hard piece of card board (although its some kind of other material I'm sure) with a metal velcro gullet plate in and straps attached to it and that's pretty much it.
I cant really understand why someone would come up with a design like this, I was expecting (and perhaps wrongly I admit) that they would have some kind of built in panels, cushioning or some kind of structure at least.
Ive heard you have to ride in the saddle for an certain amount of time to let them warm up which then allows the saddle to mould to the horse but surely a saddle should fit and be comfortable straight away as soon as youve girthed up.
Youd need one hell of a thick treeless pad to use under one of these to lift the saddle as it has this rim around the back (not where you sit) which on my horse anyway would dig/rub the back and even the spine unless the saddle is jacked up pretty high, as well as something offering a gullet for spine clearance.
The shape of the saddle (where the girth straps fall) did not line up with his forward girth groove but this was probably just one of those things, probably due to my horses confo rather than the saddle itself. The built in knee blocks were very hard, fine if you ride long as yes it is a the GP/Endurance style after all but you wouldnt want support from the knee blocks unless you didnt mind a few bruises around the knees.
The saddle is extremely light, without the irons etc you could balance it on little finger.
I could not bring myself to take photos of it on him because it looked terrible, no reflection on the saddle it's self but on my horse, it looked ridicules nor did I attempt to get on and even sit in it, as the pad wasnt the right sort of pad underneath (not that Im an expert in treeless pads but I know this one would not of done anything to improve the situation lets put it that way!) also the gullet plate may have been the wrong size for his withers but I doubt any gullet be it wider or narrower would of done the job without a some serious DIY padding but fact is the saddle was sitting in completely the wrong place on his back, it also looked huge on him and too long in the back, it looked extremely uncomfortable for my horse, Mackenzie kept looking round at me (no joke) as if to say ''mother what the hell is that'' I can read him like a book and he was not impressed.
If the Freeform is anything like the Freemax, Ill be hugely disappointed to say the least and Ill of ended up paying to try something that I doubt I will even put on my horses back let alone attempt to ride in.
I can see how a saddle like this may work, with the right pads and on the right shaped horse but I doubt its very often youd get both combinations right! I think that is why you see a lot of these saddles back up for sale on places like ebay and various other for sale sites, if they work for you great but certainly not my cup of tea.
Which brings me the topic of treeless saddle pads. I can now see how important it is to have the right pad and the different types you can get depending on what you want them to do, you can ready as much as you can about them but until you try and rig up a treeless saddle you then realise what you need and why and it could take a bit of time and money getting it right, if you do, I truely beleive it will work wonders.
The pad I was lent was (I presume) is one of those that are designed to distribute the weight to avoid pressure points, Im only guessing this because of the type of foam inserts (or shims are they called?) that were in as were very hard and I mean very hard, not soft or squishy, however they were quite thin. If this type of pad IS one of those types I can see how these would work to help distribute weight from the seat and the stirrups to avoid pressure points.
I have no idea what make of pad it was as it didnt say but the lady said she got it off ebay, it was only a cheap one as she said it was only £25.00 but I dont know if it was bought new or second hand so I cant comment on the quality/price but I presume or hope the more expensive ones (around £100 price range) are a lot better.
But and here is the but, surely if this type of pad is used directly onto the horse it would feel rather hard, also the gap between (spine of the pad) surely the edges of these shimmy things could actually rub or feel rather uncomfortable near the horses spine? see photo to see what I mean.
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x151/Becks_049/IMAG0236.jpg
Which takes to me to my next question, the gap width in these pads (spine) or in case the one I used here (see picture to see what I mean)
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x151/Becks_049/IMAG0238.jpg
would have to be the right also, as horses are all very different in this area depending on their back confo, as in how wide they are across the spine, for instance this one would not of been wide enough and I can imagine it doing more harm than good! (see picture)
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x151/Becks_049/IMAG0237.jpg
if not used with another pad underneath to form a comfortable cushion to protect the edges of the spine from the ridges of the shims (do you see what I'm getting at?), surely youd need a soft surface to between the two to cushion the back, again this would need to have a gullet channel for adequate spine clearance.
Anyone who would use treeless saddle without spine clearance be it built into the saddle or through a good pad(s) to create a gullet is going to cause problems youd be mad not to, so what Ive found so far is your pad or pads need to do these 4 things very well:-
Protect against pressure points by distributing your weight (by using a harder one I presume)
Create a gullet for spine clearance
Have a soft comfortable underside to create comfort, shock absorb and cushion the above pad as well as absorb sweat.
Be adaptable, so you can change the inserts, taking into account different thicknesses and be able to do this front and back .I think that is more than four things.
Now if you can tell me there is one pad that does all that, well pass the salt and pepper and Ill eat my jockey skull cap.
See next post (part 2) for the rest of my report!
Well last night I tried the two saddles and I shall try to explain my findings and views on various things, you may want to stick the kettle on Ill warn you this could be long!
First of all the Freemax:-
Lets just say it's not quite what I expected, I can only describe it as a hard piece of card board (although its some kind of other material I'm sure) with a metal velcro gullet plate in and straps attached to it and that's pretty much it.
I cant really understand why someone would come up with a design like this, I was expecting (and perhaps wrongly I admit) that they would have some kind of built in panels, cushioning or some kind of structure at least.
Ive heard you have to ride in the saddle for an certain amount of time to let them warm up which then allows the saddle to mould to the horse but surely a saddle should fit and be comfortable straight away as soon as youve girthed up.
Youd need one hell of a thick treeless pad to use under one of these to lift the saddle as it has this rim around the back (not where you sit) which on my horse anyway would dig/rub the back and even the spine unless the saddle is jacked up pretty high, as well as something offering a gullet for spine clearance.
The shape of the saddle (where the girth straps fall) did not line up with his forward girth groove but this was probably just one of those things, probably due to my horses confo rather than the saddle itself. The built in knee blocks were very hard, fine if you ride long as yes it is a the GP/Endurance style after all but you wouldnt want support from the knee blocks unless you didnt mind a few bruises around the knees.
The saddle is extremely light, without the irons etc you could balance it on little finger.
I could not bring myself to take photos of it on him because it looked terrible, no reflection on the saddle it's self but on my horse, it looked ridicules nor did I attempt to get on and even sit in it, as the pad wasnt the right sort of pad underneath (not that Im an expert in treeless pads but I know this one would not of done anything to improve the situation lets put it that way!) also the gullet plate may have been the wrong size for his withers but I doubt any gullet be it wider or narrower would of done the job without a some serious DIY padding but fact is the saddle was sitting in completely the wrong place on his back, it also looked huge on him and too long in the back, it looked extremely uncomfortable for my horse, Mackenzie kept looking round at me (no joke) as if to say ''mother what the hell is that'' I can read him like a book and he was not impressed.
If the Freeform is anything like the Freemax, Ill be hugely disappointed to say the least and Ill of ended up paying to try something that I doubt I will even put on my horses back let alone attempt to ride in.
I can see how a saddle like this may work, with the right pads and on the right shaped horse but I doubt its very often youd get both combinations right! I think that is why you see a lot of these saddles back up for sale on places like ebay and various other for sale sites, if they work for you great but certainly not my cup of tea.
Which brings me the topic of treeless saddle pads. I can now see how important it is to have the right pad and the different types you can get depending on what you want them to do, you can ready as much as you can about them but until you try and rig up a treeless saddle you then realise what you need and why and it could take a bit of time and money getting it right, if you do, I truely beleive it will work wonders.
The pad I was lent was (I presume) is one of those that are designed to distribute the weight to avoid pressure points, Im only guessing this because of the type of foam inserts (or shims are they called?) that were in as were very hard and I mean very hard, not soft or squishy, however they were quite thin. If this type of pad IS one of those types I can see how these would work to help distribute weight from the seat and the stirrups to avoid pressure points.
I have no idea what make of pad it was as it didnt say but the lady said she got it off ebay, it was only a cheap one as she said it was only £25.00 but I dont know if it was bought new or second hand so I cant comment on the quality/price but I presume or hope the more expensive ones (around £100 price range) are a lot better.
But and here is the but, surely if this type of pad is used directly onto the horse it would feel rather hard, also the gap between (spine of the pad) surely the edges of these shimmy things could actually rub or feel rather uncomfortable near the horses spine? see photo to see what I mean.
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x151/Becks_049/IMAG0236.jpg
Which takes to me to my next question, the gap width in these pads (spine) or in case the one I used here (see picture to see what I mean)
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x151/Becks_049/IMAG0238.jpg
would have to be the right also, as horses are all very different in this area depending on their back confo, as in how wide they are across the spine, for instance this one would not of been wide enough and I can imagine it doing more harm than good! (see picture)
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x151/Becks_049/IMAG0237.jpg
if not used with another pad underneath to form a comfortable cushion to protect the edges of the spine from the ridges of the shims (do you see what I'm getting at?), surely youd need a soft surface to between the two to cushion the back, again this would need to have a gullet channel for adequate spine clearance.
Anyone who would use treeless saddle without spine clearance be it built into the saddle or through a good pad(s) to create a gullet is going to cause problems youd be mad not to, so what Ive found so far is your pad or pads need to do these 4 things very well:-
Protect against pressure points by distributing your weight (by using a harder one I presume)
Create a gullet for spine clearance
Have a soft comfortable underside to create comfort, shock absorb and cushion the above pad as well as absorb sweat.
Be adaptable, so you can change the inserts, taking into account different thicknesses and be able to do this front and back .I think that is more than four things.
Now if you can tell me there is one pad that does all that, well pass the salt and pepper and Ill eat my jockey skull cap.
See next post (part 2) for the rest of my report!
