Tricky to catch pony

[chaps89]

Small pony arrived start of December, very underweight, now at a good weight.
Has always been food aggressive and will question being caught but generally biddable/I could find a way that works.
The last few weeks that the grass is coming through he is becoming very tricky.
It doesn’t help he has cushings and history of laminitis so he must wear a muzzle.
I try to give them 5-6 hours out of the muzzle.
My issue is he will swing his bum on me and kicks out. He positions himself just far enough away not to get me but I’m pretty sure he’s the type that if I continued to put pressure on it would escalate and he would kick further. And frankly I’m not up for that, he might be small but the force he kicks out with I reckon it would still hurt if he got me.
He’s quite happy to come up to me and be within a stride of me, but I can’t actually get a hold of him. He doesn’t walk off particularly either.
He will not keep a field safe headcollar on, today I managed to shut him in the field shelter but I couldn’t get near him in there either. I’m hoping when I go up later he might be feeling more agreeable.

Any ideas? I try to keep calm and everything neutral but it’s driving me nuts now.
Once caught, so long as you don’t handle him whilst he’s eating, he’s very sweet.

 

[Nasicus]

How does he get the field safe headcollars off?
I had one that would wrangle her way out of any fieldsafe, often found them hung up in low tree branches! But she was unable to get out of a cheap, ratty, leather headcollar. It was rubbish enough that it would break in an emergency but not pop open like a fieldsafe. Not much help if you can't get near him at all, even in a field shelter, but something that might help in the future perhaps?

 

[blitznbobs]

Put a leather headcollar on - much harder to take off

 

[ponynutz]

My pony used to be exactly like this and if I'm perfectly honest it's never corrected itself, but it has got better and easier.

Firstly, leather headcollar yes - harder to take off but will break easier than nylon headcollars if he gets himself into a tricky situation.

Secondly, I always cut a leadrope very very short and left it attached to mine. Not long enough that he can stand on it but gives you something extra to grab.

If he turns his bum then try and follow him as best you can and always approach from directly in front so he can see you as much as he can. Keep your hands in fists by your sides (I read somewhere once that outstretched hands can look like claws which is spooky. Don't know if that's a load of codswallop but it seemed to help a little for me).

Thirdly a few rocks in a feed bucket that is shaken can work wonders - pony is curious and dip his head in to look and you can grab him. If you think he'll catch onto the fact it's rocks then you can always put a very small bit of feed amongst the pebbles/rocks.

If it's still bad I used to time riding for times when she was better to come in, i.e. dinner times, when everyone else was brought in (sometimes it'd take an hour but she'd follow the herd eventually) or even in the morning before they were turned out. If all the horses in the field are yours you could manipulate this a bit to get him in and then turn the rest back out.

The other thing is thinking about why he's doing this. From what you've said it sounds like he's just a greedy bugger but if his weight has changed lately it could be he's anticipating something like the saddle not fitting quite right. Not suggesting that's the case but finding the source might help. If he IS just greedy then I'm afraid there's not much you can do about that and will just have to try these and things others say until you find something that sticks.

Also you might have to rotate catching methods if he starts to catch on to your habits to evade being caught.

 

[Horseysheepy]

Yep, leather headcollar. I adjust it so that the noseband is sat well up on the horse's face, too low and it could damage the weaker structures of muzzle area if caught up on something. I don't think I've explained that very well, but hope you get the jist!

 

[HashRouge]

I've posted about my Welsh before I think, as he can be very difficult to catch. He never kicks out but does turn his bum and certainly wouldn't like to be behind him! I have left a leather head collar on him for long periods before although I have to say it actually doesn't help for catching him, because if he is biddable enough to be caught he will practically stick his nose in the head collar! Whereas if he doesn't want to be caught then he certainly won't let you near enough to grab the headcollar and on the rare occasion that I have managed to grab it, he just wrenches it out of your hand. We have tried multiple things, but have had to accept there is no "fix" for this horse. However, it is manageable and I have managed to develop strategies that mean I can always catch him if I need to. I find corralling him with electric fencing absolutely foolproof. Sometimes it takes a bit of setting up and if you have a very wide field might need a bit of thinking through, but in a smaller paddock it is very easy and works well. I just make the paddock smaller very very slowly (if spooked he will jump out). Once it reaches a certain size, it's almost like he shrugs his shoulders and goes "I give up" and then he is very easy to catch.

 

[stangs]

Firstly, leather headcollar yes - harder to take off but will break easier than nylon headcollars if he gets himself into a tricky situation.

Secondly, I always cut a leadrope very very short and left it attached to mine. Not long enough that he can stand on it but gives you something extra to grab.

This for starters.

Your issue is that the reinforcement for not being caught is very high as there's more grass available. I'd be rewarding with whatever his favourite treat is (even if it's just a single polo or some orange slices to account for weight gain) so there's some reason to be caught. Just make sure that, if he's food aggressive, you're treating away from your body.

Another option, if it's a feasible solution in your set up and if he's not keen on being alone, is to bring in his fieldmates. So something like: bring in horse1, then try to catch this guy. If he says no, ignore, and bring in horse2. Reward once he lets himself be caught or follows another horse to the stables.

Goes without saying as well to make sure he's avoiding being caught solely because of the grass and not because being with you/being worked with has become stressful or uncomfortable.

 

[chaps89]

He is retired and had a vet check in March so I think we’re all good from that perspective

I think it’s simply he doesn’t like having his muzzle on.

I do get that and I’ve asked his owner about a different muzzle to see if that helps but unfortunately it’s 24/7 turnout and metabolically he can’t handle that so needs must!

It also means that it’s every day, not like it’s riding he’s taken an issue too and so he has some days he’s not ridden which would help.
I do try and make it though that sometimes he comes and has a groom first or a haynet. It doesn’t help though tbh!
And sometimes I do just need to do a flying visit, check they’re upright, pop muzzles on and go.


A smaller space doesn’t help (as proved when I tried the shelter this AM), he’s always happy for me to get within reach of him, he doesn’t run off, he’ll just turn his bum. Often he will walk towards me but then past me and then kick out. All very slowly but intentionally!

If he keeps a headcollar on that’s usually enough for me to get him, it’s the putting a lead rope around his neck or headcollar on that seems to be the issue - if I don’t have them with me I can just about walk up to him to give him a scratch.

However he won’t keep it on. Will ask owner to invest in a leather one and see if we have better luck with that!

Taking his field mate away usually helps but not so much in the last few weeks, and using food for the actual catching is a bad idea with his aggression (a treat once he’s caught he is fine with but going in with a scoop of food would be silly. I did try using his breakfast to catch him this morning and it was a stupid mistake.

I can guide him to where I need him to be/move fields without catching him etc but he needs his cushings meds and a proper check over if nothing else so I can’t just leave him to be feral.

So grateful for my other pony who is a lovely friendly chap and came and mopped up my tears earlier when I got all fed up with it all!

 

[TPO]

Chase him away; turning on you and kicking is not OK.

Keep him moving and his "reward" is being allowed to stand still turned in to you.

Obviously best if you can catch him and do some organised groundwork then ots easier to teach that being still is best for everyone.

But get up hum if he swings his butt. Swing the rope (in a circle not at him) if hand waving and shouting doesn't work. He absolutely is not allowed away with this behaviour towards people.

 

[Gloi]

I think I with the Cushing's I would be keeping him in a bare area through the summer and fetching hay to him that he doesn't get until he has let you catch him, keeping headcollar and short rope on.

 

[chaps89]

Chase him away; turning on you and kicking is not OK.

Keep him moving and his "reward" is being allowed to stand still turned in to you.

Obviously best if you can catch him and do some organised groundwork then ots easier to teach that being still is best for everyone.

But get up hum if he swings his butt. Swing the rope (in a circle not at him) if hand waving and shouting doesn't work. He absolutely is not allowed away with this behaviour towards people.

Tried that, it did not end well, had feet whistling past me far too close for comfort.
I think being a small pony he has learnt to get away with murder, and I personally know I’m at my limits and not brave enough to push it further. Trust me I’m not happy that he has got away with it!

Plan is they will go on the track tomorrow and be hayed accordingly, but they will need muzzles on initially as it’s a rested bit of field.

 

[TPO]

Tried that, it did not end well, had feet whistling past me far too close for comfort.
I think being a small pony he has learnt to get away with murder, and I personally know I’m at my limits and not brave enough to push it further. Trust me I’m not happy that he has got away with it!

Plan is they will go on the track tomorrow and be hayed accordingly, but they will need muzzles on initially as it’s a rested bit of field.

Long rope swinging from beyond kicking range ? but fully understand not wanting to be in the firing zone

 

[ponynutz]

Tried that, it did not end well, had feet whistling past me far too close for comfort.
I think being a small pony he has learnt to get away with murder, and I personally know I’m at my limits and not brave enough to push it further. Trust me I’m not happy that he has got away with it!

Know the feeling. Mine never probably kicked but she would run at you if she got fed up enough.

Good to hear it's not an issue with being uncomfortable with you that's caused it - although it could be he's anticipating the muzzle being put on as you say (although of course WE know that's for his own good).

If having a headcollar helps you then definitely would reccomend getting the leather headcollar like you say.

I think I with the Cushing's I would be keeping him in a bare area through the summer and fetching hay to him that he doesn't get until he has let you catch him, keeping headcollar and short rope on.

^^
We used to have what was called a 'starvation paddock' at my old yard. This helped mine want to come in as well as helping her health bc she was anticipating a nice big juicy haynet in her stable. Also might help if he is associating you coming with the muzzle!

 

[Highmileagecob]

My EMS lives out 24/7 in the summer wearing an American Tough 1 Easy Breathe. The eating hole is square, around half the size of a credit card and is the only one he will tolerate.
Naughty ponies who won't be caught are such a pita! Tricks we have employed on our yard include herding the offender down to the small paddock and catching from there.
Slowly walking behind the pony keeping him moving at a walk until he has had enough and turns to face you - at that point approach his shoulder with no eye contact and catch hold of halter.
Have crackly paper in your pocket and rustle it as you walk past the pony and totally ignore him. If he approaches you give a small chunk of carrot or a couple of pony nuts, then walk away rustling the paper. Curiosity usually gets the better of them and pony will eventually follow you, the more you offer a tiny titbit and walk away the more determined he will be to follow.
If you get within a certain distance and the pony starts to move to swing his quarters, stop and bend down as if you are tieing a shoelace and turn away from him (obviously keep an eye on those back legs). Hopefully, he will turn to face you because he is not getting the usual response.
Very time consuming and not good for everyone's temper, I hope you crack the problem soon!

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Chaps, this is why my smalls have a tiny feed all of their own twice daily.
6 nuts on a dessert spoonful of some chop, possibly with a slither of carrot or apple draped across.
Little B (the late lamented furry ball) was a total shyte to catch when I got her, took a week of twice daily buckets to ensure she rocked up at the gate to come in for food.
You've seen the teeny buckets and food, would he come for a bucket?

Little A wears a muzzle all day, but does have a small bare paddock to herself at night, it's worked for me to keep her this way.

Good luck, hope you find a method to work x