Trim made horse sore or arthritic

[Mango_goose]

Update from earlier post - my beloved 2010 gelding didn’t feel right out hacking - very tentative and sore. Instructor was sent videos and it was decided he’s slightly unlevel in the hind, it’s the left that’s bothering him. But honestly I couldn’t really see it on camera but I could feel he was touchy on all four feet. We think we’ve noticed he’s resting that leg more, at least since the trim, and that he was “showing” me the foot when picking out his hooves - a habit when he has stones in his hooves that he’s learnt. Ie, I hop down because I can feel he’s picked up a stone, I get out my hoof pick and he lifts the offending foot. Only today he was persistent and wouldn’t pick up the other hind until I got him to take a few steps and then asked again.

He’s been a bit tricky to pick out his feet for the last week. Very fidgety but otherwise picks them up fine and this was only in his new pea shingle pen - fine on the road, paddock etc. so I figured footing felt unstable? Farrier trimmed today in the pea shingle and remarked he was being a pain but that I had let him get away with it so he most likely had learnt that when in the pea shingle pen he can mess me around. Farrier was very relaxed and just persisted until he stood nicely which happened in under ten seconds.

Anyway, we now think it’s one of three things
1. He’s arthritic in his hocks. It would explain the resting of foot, the unevenness, and perhaps the reluctance to have his feet picked up - although this behaviour isn’t consistent and fine elsewhere so it’s probably a correlation, not causation. His age would perhaps support this and a confirmation fault I was told about years ago by some yard busy body “straight hocks like that will go arthritic!”
2. He’s been trimmed a little short - he was never shod on backs anyways, but possibly a weird adjustment or change in pattern out of discomfort at being trimmed. In this case not overly worried as he’s still transitioning.
3. He’s thrown out something in the field/ out riding. A few years ago he came up “ever so fractionally not quite right” and we toyed with arthritis then, but after the physio saw to him he was back to normal and felt fine. Not unlikely this has happened again considering an inconsistent work load due and lots of summer fun.

I’m guessing if it’s the trim he’ll feel better in no time but I’ll have the vet out to x ray him asap - if vet finds nothing I’ll book him into the physio, despite the fact he’s going on holiday in two weeks .

I’m reluctant to think it’s arthritis. Perhaps I’m just scared that it is - I’ve honestly been crying about it (ridiculous I know!) A month ago he won a dressage comp and his straightness and tempo were admired - this was on a very hard paddock. This unevenness has only started since going barefoot and reoccurred when trimmed. He has no heat, no swelling, and the texture of the tarmac seems to make the difference - he’s not 100% on any hard surfaces as of today, but he’s much more uncomfortable on coarse tarmac than he is the nice smooth stuff - which makes me think it’s the trim. He also is merrily schooling on the grass with no issue and lunged sound on a tight circle tonight - I did notice a little reluctance on the right rein but he moved well and was probably sick to death of it (he hates lunging at the best of times).

Also am I wrong in thinking a dodgy left hind could indicate the real issue is in the front right? He feels uncomfortable the most when asked to go down coarse slopes or gravel/ rough tarmac, like he’s unsure, whereas grassy/ turf slopes aren’t a trouble for him. He also despises those little bumpy yellow paving slabs and had an ouchy step on one a few days back with that hind, again making me assume it’s the barefoot transition?

I’ve felt no abnormal heat, or noticeable digital pulse (he’s always had warmer hooves than my other horse, but I think he runs warm all over)

Also, this is a horse who’s normal bodily pain response is to throw a mean buck but I haven’t had so much as a hump from him - surely if a tight arse muscle can make him go vertical arse up, then a sore hock would sent him into the air too? Whereas past stone bruises etc he’s always held me the sore foot out like he has been - as if to say “look I have a problem!”

Sorry for the long post. Just worried about what is most certainly my heart horse - mushy stuff aside he’s genuinely been my rock - he made my dressage dreams come true, placing every time, as my instructor says, because pleasing me makes him happy. This is the horse who I snuck out of school to give him my apple, who threw off much better riders but let me stay on (perhaps because of aforementioned snuck apples). Above all, this is the very sweet pony who taught my boyfriend to ride, and is so incredibly dependable. Hearing him call to me each morning is so brilliant. Eight years with this absolutely stubborn, quirky, funny horse and I can’t imagine ever having another because no one can top his personality. Hes so incredibly funny and clued up to the world - he’s always kept me safe, and I can’t help but worry I’ve failed him but noticing too late that somethings wrong.

 

[SpeedyPony]

A severe trim could make him lame behind- have you changed farrier? You say he's not been shod behind but you're transitioning, is this to no shoes in front (shouldn't make much difference to the hind limbs) or to a different farrier?
It could also be age/arthritis related, but that's not necessarily a major problem, injections and supplements can make an excellent difference when it comes to maintaining an older horse.
I wouldn't feel bad about not noticing until now, for one horses are hardwired to not show discomfort (evolutionary pressures) and for another mild issues that change very slowly can creep up on them just as they do on humans.

 

[Mango_goose]

A severe trim could make him lame behind- have you changed farrier? You say he's not been shod behind but you're transitioning, is this to no shoes in front (shouldn't make much difference to the hind limbs) or to a different farrier?
It could also be age/arthritis related, but that's not necessarily a major problem, injections and supplements can make an excellent difference when it comes to maintaining an older horse.
I wouldn't feel bad about not noticing until now, for one horses are hardwired to not show discomfort (evolutionary pressures) and for another mild issues that change very slowly can creep up on them just as they do on humans.

Same farrier, and I’ve never had a bad trim from him - if he’s arthritic would texture of tarmac be as big of a factor as it seemed?

 

[Highmileagereindeer]

Could be an abscess brewing up. Or a stone bruise. Have the heels been lowered so that he is weight bearing on the frog? Could also be hip pain? Process of elimination, unfortunately. Hope you can work it out.

 

[Mango_goose]

Could be an abscess brewing up. Or a stone bruise. Have the heels been lowered so that he is weight bearing on the frog? Could also be hip pain? Process of elimination, unfortunately. Hope you can work it out.

Called vet and they are completely useless ffs. I immediately asked “okay can you please bring the x ray with you, I don’t want you to come out without it” then I get a call back “x ray might not be available you’ll know when they arrive!” Vet has since rang me and told me she won’t bring her x ray because she thinks it could be an abscess brewing and if it’s not she’ll bring it next time fingers crossed for an abscess….?

 

[Highmileagereindeer]

A hoof abscess is about the only time I get a pain reaction from Old Dobbin. He had one break out of the coronet band on a hind foot back in the summer. I didn't realise, because he didn't make a. fuss - until I picked up to pick the hoof out and he snatched the foot away and smashed it down on my foot, breaking three toes.

 

[Mango_goose]

A hoof abscess is about the only time I get a pain reaction from Old Dobbin. He had one break out of the coronet band on a hind foot back in the summer. I didn't realise, because he didn't make a. fuss - until I picked up to pick the hoof out and he snatched the foot away and smashed it down on my foot, breaking three toes.

Mines been a bit funny to pick out too which isn’t like him in the slightest! Farrier remarked on it when he saw to him but at that stage he was sound. Would a trim have made it more pronounced?

 

[Mango_goose]

Update - both left are warm, especially the back. He’s uncomfortable when I tap on the left hooves but not on the right - perhaps he’s got an abscess

 

[sbloom]

Called vet and they are completely useless ffs. I immediately asked “okay can you please bring the x ray with you, I don’t want you to come out without it” then I get a call back “x ray might not be available you’ll know when they arrive!” Vet has since rang me and told me she won’t bring her x ray because she thinks it could be an abscess brewing and if it’s not she’ll bring it next time fingers crossed for an abscess….?

As long as they don't charge you a second call out...

 

[Mango_goose]

As long as they don't charge you a second call out...

They will which is f ing annoying but I’d rather have them out now instead of waiting, I am very worried. I’d kick myself if I didn’t call them out and he was in more pain tomorrow just to spare £50 . I’ll try to arrange it on the area day to limit the second fee.

 

[Exasperated]

Update from earlier post - my beloved 2010 gelding didn’t feel right out hacking - very tentative and sore. Instructor was sent videos and it was decided he’s slightly unlevel in the hind, it’s the left that’s bothering him. But honestly I couldn’t really see it on camera but I could feel he was touchy on all four feet. We think we’ve noticed he’s resting that leg more, at least since the trim, and that he was “showing” me the foot when picking out his hooves - a habit when he has stones in his hooves that he’s learnt. Ie, I hop down because I can feel he’s picked up a stone, I get out my hoof pick and he lifts the offending foot. Only today he was persistent and wouldn’t pick up the other hind until I got him to take a few steps and then asked again.

He’s been a bit tricky to pick out his feet for the last week. Very fidgety but otherwise picks them up fine and this was only in his new pea shingle pen - fine on the road, paddock etc. so I figured footing felt unstable? Farrier trimmed today in the pea shingle and remarked he was being a pain but that I had let him get away with it so he most likely had learnt that when in the pea shingle pen he can mess me around. Farrier was very relaxed and just persisted until he stood nicely which happened in under ten seconds.

Anyway, we now think it’s one of three things
1. He’s arthritic in his hocks. It would explain the resting of foot, the unevenness, and perhaps the reluctance to have his feet picked up - although this behaviour isn’t consistent and fine elsewhere so it’s probably a correlation, not causation. His age would perhaps support this and a confirmation fault I was told about years ago by some yard busy body “straight hocks like that will go arthritic!”
2. He’s been trimmed a little short - he was never shod on backs anyways, but possibly a weird adjustment or change in pattern out of discomfort at being trimmed. In this case not overly worried as he’s still transitioning.
3. He’s thrown out something in the field/ out riding. A few years ago he came up “ever so fractionally not quite right” and we toyed with arthritis then, but after the physio saw to him he was back to normal and felt fine. Not unlikely this has happened again considering an inconsistent work load due and lots of summer fun.

I’m guessing if it’s the trim he’ll feel better in no time but I’ll have the vet out to x ray him asap - if vet finds nothing I’ll book him into the physio, despite the fact he’s going on holiday in two weeks .

I’m reluctant to think it’s arthritis. Perhaps I’m just scared that it is - I’ve honestly been crying about it (ridiculous I know!) A month ago he won a dressage comp and his straightness and tempo were admired - this was on a very hard paddock. This unevenness has only started since going barefoot and reoccurred when trimmed. He has no heat, no swelling, and the texture of the tarmac seems to make the difference - he’s not 100% on any hard surfaces as of today, but he’s much more uncomfortable on coarse tarmac than he is the nice smooth stuff - which makes me think it’s the trim. He also is merrily schooling on the grass with no issue and lunged sound on a tight circle tonight - I did notice a little reluctance on the right rein but he moved well and was probably sick to death of it (he hates lunging at the best of times).

Also am I wrong in thinking a dodgy left hind could indicate the real issue is in the front right? He feels uncomfortable the most when asked to go down coarse slopes or gravel/ rough tarmac, like he’s unsure, whereas grassy/ turf slopes aren’t a trouble for him. He also despises those little bumpy yellow paving slabs and had an ouchy step on one a few days back with that hind, again making me assume it’s the barefoot transition?

I’ve felt no abnormal heat, or noticeable digital pulse (he’s always had warmer hooves than my other horse, but I think he runs warm all over)

Also, this is a horse who’s normal bodily pain response is to throw a mean buck but I haven’t had so much as a hump from him - surely if a tight arse muscle can make him go vertical arse up, then a sore hock would sent him into the air too? Whereas past stone bruises etc he’s always held me the sore foot out like he has been - as if to say “look I have a problem!”

Sorry for the long post. Just worried about what is most certainly my heart horse - mushy stuff aside he’s genuinely been my rock - he made my dressage dreams come true, placing every time, as my instructor says, because pleasing me makes him happy. This is the horse who I snuck out of school to give him my apple, who threw off much better riders but let me stay on (perhaps because of aforementioned snuck apples). Above all, this is the very sweet pony who taught my boyfriend to ride, and is so incredibly dependable. Hearing him call to me each morning is so brilliant. Eight years with this absolutely stubborn, quirky, funny horse and I can’t imagine ever having another because no one can top his personality. Hes so incredibly funny and clued up to the world - he’s always kept me safe, and I can’t help but worry I’ve failed him but noticing too late that somethings wrong.

Ok, number three sounds unlikely, could be either of the others, or something else - which your vet should be able to notice, with or without the x Ray. If the vet practice is that level of unsuitable, change.
Try making his hind feet more comfortable, ASAP.
Buy a pair of hoof boots (secondhand would do, just need them to functionally stay on without rubbing), put a pair of ‘Comfort Pads’ inside and ride him in those. If it significantly helps travelling over the rougher surfaces, yes, the trim won’t have done him any favours.
If not, then there is definitely something else, possibly abscess, possibly arthritis flaring up - don’t know where you are, but dropped temperatures and rain have certainly annoyed my arthritis! - possibly something else (which a decent vet should advise). The other concern would always be low grade laminitis, given sharp change in growing conditions, altho farrier would probably have noticed any changes and whatever sounds to be ‘grumbling’ along rather than becoming acute - which is more common. Your vet would at least consider lami.
Not all horses successfully transition to barefoot for hacking. Some need cushioning outside an arena surface or off grass. When the conditions have been very dry, then very wet, there is often more softness and sensitivity in the soles, which could be your issue.
If abscess brewing, you’re going to find out! Obviously would be better to relieve it earlier than later.
If onset arthritis, that’s not the end of the world, and at 15 /16 years old, not uncommon.
No point crying, try to ease his immediate soreness and work through the possibilities, he sounds a sweet little horse! Good luck.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

I'd also consider if it could be laminitis.

 

[Mango_goose]

I'd also consider if it could be laminitis.

He’s a really nice weight and on very restrictive grazing (a limited amount of mature grazing grass twice a day), so I’m not sure it’s that but we’ll look into it today when the vets out. He seems very comfortable so I hopefully if it is, it’s a minor flare. I remember my farrier showed me a study years ago that suggests a lot of stone bruises were actually very low grad lami, and that some horses went laminitic and didn’t put a foot wrong the entire time - which makes me hopeful it’s not to severe.

Some nasty bruising was also present although it’s now grown out so perhaps concussion lami? Or general soreness from banging around the place

 

[Mango_goose]

, he sounds a sweet little horse! Good luck.

He’s genuinely the sweetest horse. So incredibly patient with me! I’m a sack of potatoes but he’s never once complained lol

 

[Exasperated]

He’s a really nice weight and on very restrictive grazing (a limited amount of mature grazing grass twice a day), so I’m not sure it’s that but we’ll look into it today when the vets out. He seems very comfortable so I hopefully if it is, it’s a minor flare. I remember my farrier showed me a study years ago that suggests a lot of stone bruises were actually very low grad lami, and that some horses went laminitic and didn’t put a foot wrong the entire time - which makes me hopeful it’s not to severe.

Some nasty bruising was also present although it’s now grown out so perhaps concussion lami? Or general soreness from banging around the place

Well, hopefully your vet visit will rule out laminitis, although it can present in other than the ‘classic’ stance and symptoms, and can certainly be caused by other than too rich diet or being fat.
I would definitely look at finding some suitable hoof boots for your hacking, though.
Occasionally horses come out of shoes and set off up a flint byway without seeming ever to notice;
others are never comfortable, no matter how much attention to diet, trimming, ‘transitioning’;
but many more are in between those extremes, can sometimes need degrees of support and cushioning for aspects of their work - irrespective of ‘the theory’!

 

[Mango_goose]

Well, hopefully your vet visit will rule out laminitis, although it can present in other than the ‘classic’ stance and symptoms, and can certainly be caused by other than too rich diet or being fat.
I would definitely look at finding some suitable hoof boots for your hacking, though.
Occasionally horses come out of shoes and set off up a flint byway without seeming ever to notice;
others are never comfortable, no matter how much attention to diet, trimming, ‘transitioning’;
but many more are in between those extremes, can sometimes need degrees of support and cushioning for aspects of their work - irrespective of ‘the theory’!

Thank you, should be here any minute now so fingers crossed!

 

[Mango_goose]

Vet has seen to him and said he’s so slightly unlevel that he wouldn’t be surprised if I hadn’t felt it at all, hard to say which leg as one was positive on flexion mild/moderate (same thing happened five years back with same leg so no changes there!) and that the other hind hoof was reactive. He’s on Bute for now and will be turned out for a few days, see how he goes.