Trot to canter transition - head shaking! Help and tips please!

[Haffie]

Hmm tried first canter of the year today and my pony put her head right down and shook it... If it wasnt for her mane i might have come off.

I tried repeatedly with loose reins and slightly tighter reins but she kept doing the same thing immediately as she went into canter. I kept at it and eventually she stopped going into canter at all and just did a fast trot, repeatedly.

I bought her late last year and she did the same thing when I cantered behind another pony. At the time i thought she'd just gotten a scare from a tractor nearby. I hadn't cantered since because i've just been hacking her at walk and trot through the winter.

When I bought her she had various problems (walking off when im mounting, not stopping, not staying stopped, biting etc) but i have fixed all of these now. She is very intelligent and she is not a mean pony at all!! Its just about knowing what works...

She has been vetted, had her teeth checked, hooves trimmed and her saddle fits well. I really dont think her behaviour is the result of a saddle or health problem. However i have read that sometimes horses can have a learned behavioural problem from a previous cause - perhaps the saddle she had with the previous owners didnt fit well? (I dont think theyd tell me, if i asked).

Anyway, i hope someome can give me some tips as im flummoxed as to how to fix it :-/

Id like to add that she is very happy and willing trotting.

Thank you!

 

[Shay]

Can you get help from a good instructor? You really need eyes on the ground to see what is happening.

It could be a learned evasion - in which case you'll need an instructor anyway. But I would also be wondering about subtle lamness preventing her bringing her hind legs under. Low grade neck injury or the start of kissing spines. Equally your body position could be hampering strike off and this is the only way she can get her hind leg under. The saddle position could be wrong for her - or it might not fit. You don't say when you last had the saddle checked. Is the surface too deep for her to strike off comfortably - or conversely too hard and she is a bit footy? Too many options I'm afraid!

Could you post a video perhaps?

 

[Haffie]

Can you get help from a good instructor? You really need eyes on the ground to see what is happening.

It could be a learned evasion - in which case you'll need an instructor anyway. But I would also be wondering about subtle lamness preventing her bringing her hind legs under. Low grade neck injury or the start of kissing spines. Equally your body position could be hampering strike off and this is the only way she can get her hind leg under. The saddle position could be wrong for her - or it might not fit. You don't say when you last had the saddle checked. Is the surface too deep for her to strike off comfortably - or conversely too hard and she is a bit footy? Too many options I'm afraid!

Could you post a video perhaps?

Hi thank you for your response, she was generally vet checked when i bought her late last year and it was all clear. I also had the vet out for her just over a month ago (for a parasite infection thats now cleared). Yes id be happy to try and get a video. I have the vet coming later this month so i can ask him re lameness, kissing spines and ill see if he'll check the saddle out for me too.

 

[Micropony]

Does she do the same thing on the lunge or if you loose school and ask for canter? Am not suggesting you chase her round in canter for ages, but sometimes you can tell a lot from watching them move without a rider.

 

[Haffie]

Does she do the same thing on the lunge or if you loose school and ask for canter? Am not suggesting you chase her round in canter for ages, but sometimes you can tell a lot from watching them move without a rider.

Hello! She often canters to me when i arrive at her field. She does do a head swishy thing sometimes (from halt or trot or canter) but i posted a video previously and people say thats just a happy thing.
When i ride her, she only does the head swishing when she goes into canter - and i dont think its the happy swishing that i see her do in the field.
Also shes not bucking or anything while she does it when im riding her and she stops swishing immediately she is not cantering.
Im pretty miffed :-/ im going to call the vet on tuesday but i suspect its a bad habit previous to when i got her... Shes good as gold but she does take advantage of any 'weaknesses' so im wondering if shes not just acting up because she can!
Im really really desperate to solve it asap before she starts thinking she can get away with it with me.
A good example is that when i trot on her she is perfect, moves forwards nicely without much squeezing etc and not trying to eat the grass...but when i had my friend on her last week for a little ride (my friend is a beginner) my pony was trotting nicely with me running alongside her.... until i stopped running beside her, at which point she went from trot to halt, head down eating grass, and my friend went right over her head!!!!!
Ive not fallen off her yet, but the head down and swaying in canter is difficult for me to keep good posture... Im starting to lean forwards when i ask her to canter now so that i can grab her mane to stay on!

 

[Micropony]

Well if she isn't doing it without a rider then I would imagine it's either the weight of a rider that's making her uncomfortable, perhaps because of an underlying issue, or there's something about your position or contact or the way you're giving the canter aid. If she's not done much canter work for a long time it could also be that it's just difficult for her as she's lacking the right muscles.

If your gut tells you she's uncomfortable then get the vet out.

However if it were my horse my starting point would be that it was probably my riding, and I would be asking for my trainer's input first, and possibly asking him to hop on to see what happens and what it looks like from the ground.

Hope you manage to get to the bottom of it and come up with a plan of action for her.

 

[Haffie]

Well if she isn't doing it without a rider then I would imagine it's either the weight of a rider that's making her uncomfortable, perhaps because of an underlying issue, or there's something about your position or contact or the way you're giving the canter aid. If she's not done much canter work for a long time it could also be that it's just difficult for her as she's lacking the right muscles.

If your gut tells you she's uncomfortable then get the vet out.

However if it were my horse my starting point would be that it was probably my riding, and I would be asking for my trainer's input first, and possibly asking him to hop on to see what happens and what it looks like from the ground.

Hope you manage to get to the bottom of it and come up with a plan of action for her.

Thank you for your reply . Im sure my riding skills are faaaaar from good but ive done loads of canter over the last year on different horses. Im going to call the vet tuesday just so im sure theres no medical issue, and ill ask him to look re saddle fitting too. Next step after that is ill get someone good to ride her and see if she does it. Hoping to have money with new job soon so i can get regular lessons too

 

[tallyho!]

Once the vet has ruled out anything physiological and equipment issues and you still get the problem, sometimes it really is just the ask and working through the misunderstanding.

Make sure your aids are clear and you are off the inside shoulder when you ask. It always used to help me to look ahead towards the turn so that my shoulders were turned in the direction. That was enough to weight my outside seat bone very slightly during the "ask". The half-halt has to be just right so think which hind leg is under you. Some people find it easier to "step" into the canter lead so as to take the weight off the outside quarters, but I find this is counter-intuitive for some reason. I had to really exaggerate the aid for my filly and then we were ok.

 

[Haffie]

Once the vet has ruled out anything physiological and equipment issues and you still get the problem, sometimes it really is just the ask and working through the misunderstanding.

Make sure your aids are clear and you are off the inside shoulder when you ask. It always used to help me to look ahead towards the turn so that my shoulders were turned in the direction. That was enough to weight my outside seat bone very slightly during the "ask". The half-halt has to be just right so think which hind leg is under you. Some people find it easier to "step" into the canter lead so as to take the weight off the outside quarters, but I find this is counter-intuitive for some reason. I had to really exaggerate the aid for my filly and then we were ok.

I think she understands because she goes into canter, just shes problematic in canter. Im ordering a saddle pad today with sheepswool (read that was best for shock absorption) as she has a new saddle so although it appears to fit well, maybe it is still 'tough' and uncomfortable for her.

 

[tallyho!]

I think she understands because she goes into canter, just shes problematic in canter. Im ordering a saddle pad today with sheepswool (read that was best for shock absorption) as she has a new saddle so although it appears to fit well, maybe it is still 'tough' and uncomfortable for her.

I hope you get to the bottom of it... certainly sounds as if something is amiss somewhere. Hope the vet does her justice

 

[Haffie]

I hope you get to the bottom of it... certainly sounds as if something is amiss somewhere. Hope the vet does her justice

Ive been looking closely re her saddle and it turns out this could be the cause or part of the cause as i think it was too far forward and interfering with the movement of her shoulder / scapula. Im going to ask horse vet re how it fits and if its not good then ill buy another saddle. Im not in situation to have a professional saddler out for a saddle fitting which is not convenient because i really want her to not have saddle problems!

 

[Leo Walker]

A vet wont know if your saddle fit. They have zero training in saddle fitting. My fitter is brilliant and she only charges me £40 for a visit. It can be slightly more if she flocks and slightly less if its a total no go. She doesnt sell saddles so is totally unbiased. If you've identified the saddle as an issue get a really good fitter out, then a physio to make sure there are no issues. If that doesnt resolve it, then its vet time.

I'm the first to say vet! But a new saddle, followed by issues needs a saddle fitter first. And a good physio, who will insist on vet permission to see your horse. My vets would recommend that

 

[Haffie]

A vet wont know if your saddle fit. They have zero training in saddle fitting. My fitter is brilliant and she only charges me £40 for a visit. It can be slightly more if she flocks and slightly less if its a total no go. She doesnt sell saddles so is totally unbiased. If you've identified the saddle as an issue get a really good fitter out, then a physio to make sure there are no issues. If that doesnt resolve it, then its vet time.

I'm the first to say vet! But a new saddle, followed by issues needs a saddle fitter first. And a good physio, who will insist on vet permission to see your horse. My vets would recommend that

Hello! Ive decided im going to buy a new saddle! If i have a saddle fitter come out, would he or she bring some different saddles to try? Ill have about 200€ so will be getting a low price range one from the shop or a better second hand one. Obviously i dont want saddle no2 to not fit either :-/ thank you

 

[tallyho!]

Hello! Ive decided im going to buy a new saddle! If i have a saddle fitter come out, would he or she bring some different saddles to try? Ill have about 200€ so will be getting a low price range one from the shop or a better second hand one. Obviously i dont want saddle no2 to not fit either :-/ thank you

Where are you in Europe?

 

[Haffie]

Where are you in Europe?

Im in france but im scottish, my french isnt great especially for specific vocabulary so ive not been able to ask people here re saddle fitters etc :-/. Ive bought a good 'half pad' i think its called with sheeps wool and a bit that goes down the middle to stop it pressing on the spine by hkm so far. Im now hoping to find a good saddle new or second hand. The problem is i dont have my pony at a riding stables now so ive noone i can ask, and when i did have her at a riding stables, i think ive been given bad advice re her current saddle fitting :-/ im currently eyeballing the norton rexine saddles either close contact or multi purpose as you can change the piece that affects the way the saddle sits on the withers/scapula/shoulders...sorry if im not explaining very well, rediculously my horse related vocab is a mix of english and french now.

 

[tallyho!]

Im in france but im scottish, my french isnt great especially for specific vocabulary so ive not been able to ask people here re saddle fitters etc :-/. Ive bought a good 'half pad' i think its called with sheeps wool and a bit that goes down the middle to stop it pressing on the spine by hkm so far. Im now hoping to find a good saddle new or second hand. The problem is i dont have my pony at a riding stables now so ive noone i can ask, and when i did have her at a riding stables, i think ive been given bad advice re her current saddle fitting :-/ im currently eyeballing the norton rexine saddles either close contact or multi purpose as you can change the piece that affects the way the saddle sits on the withers/scapula/shoulders...sorry if im not explaining very well, rediculously my horse related vocab is a mix of english and french now.

I know there are knowledgeable folk here from France... I think you could try posting a request in the title. I know less than very little about france. There must be some decent saddlers around

 

[J&S]

Have you ever tried lungeing (sp!) her? Will she go from trot to canter quite happily? It may be she is not able to hold herself correctly yet so teach her to balance her self on the circle, then try mounted work again. Obviously a correctly fitted saddle is needed as well.