trotting up from behind - rude or acceptable?

[lannerch]

Acceptable really cannot see a problem with it

 

[darkhorse123]

I've hacked out and had some exciting times - ambulances at full speed, car crashes, trains, helicopters - you name it - I can't expect everyone to stop life to keep me safe.
You need to start to habituate your horse to whatever you think he is likely to meet - and a horse either trotting up from behind, or trotting/cantering away in front is quite likely.
What if you met the hunt?
S

i expect i would hear them and be ready = plus im not really likely to meet the hunt on leeds main ring road!

On country lanes, back roads - yes play - but my argument is dont play or risk on a windy country lane 2 mins from approaching leeds main ring road thats always full of busy fast traffic - just dangerous and silly

 

[darkhorse123]

i really wish i could show you all a pic - this is a farm country lane that leads onto main city inner ring road!
We have to trot down down this road for 50 yards (so we dont annoy drivers) to turn off into bridle path then countryside - its horrible and id think horse riders would understand and respect this

 

[Shilasdair]

i expect i would hear them and be ready = plus im not really likely to meet the hunt on leeds main ring road!

On country lanes, back roads - yes play - but my argument is dont play or risk on a windy country lane 2 mins from approaching leeds main ring road thats always full of busy fast traffic - just dangerous and silly

I have to disagree - I don't think your potential inability to control your horse is 'play'. I think it's very unsafe, and will eventually cause you problems (although I sincerely hope not).
Riding is a risky sport - particularly so on roads, and even more so on 'Leeds main ring road' so you owe it to yourself, your horse and other people to do everything in your power to minimise the risk.
For me that would include using PPE, high viz clothing, but also ensuring that I CAN control the horse in virtually all circumstances, by training him to accept likely scenarios.
And horses trotting or even cantering to and from you is not unusual - it happened to you today - it will happen again. Posting about 'rude people' will not stop it, nor keep you safe.
Losing control of a horse can result in a fatal accident; this is not a risk worth taking.
S

 

[darkhorse123]

I have to disagree - I don't think your potential inability to control your horse is 'play'. I think it's very unsafe, and will eventually cause you problems (although I sincerely hope not).
Riding is a risky sport - particularly so on roads, and even more so on 'Leeds main ring road' so you owe it to yourself, your horse and other people to do everything in your power to minimise the risk.
For me that would include using PPE, high viz clothing, but also ensuring that I CAN control the horse in virtually all circumstances, by training him to accept likely scenarios.
And horses trotting or even cantering to and from you is not unusual - it happened to you today - it will happen again. Posting about 'rude people' will not stop it, nor keep you safe.
Losing control of a horse can result in a fatal accident; this is not a risk worth taking.
S

so as i said - how do i learn then? how did you learn to hack out safely in all situations without going ont he roads?
Seems like a bit of a catch 22 - if you dont try how do you know?

 

[darkhorse123]

also - out of interest - where do you buy these robotic horses that dont get upset at anything - also - as i said previously - im perhaps more upset that its other horse riders that did this - not idiot drivers or cyclists who know no better.
If other riders cant be polite and courteous isnt it a shame - ps shilasdair this wasnt you in leeds today was it

 

[Shilasdair]

so as i said - how do i learn then? how did you learn to hack out safely in all situations without going ont he roads?
Seems like a bit of a catch 22 - if you dont try how do you know?

If you are a novice, get an experienced horse to ride.
If your horse is young/green, ride out in company - but TRAIN him so that he gets used to things/situations you may meet. If your horse is ok with horses trotting up behind him in a school, then on a road it should be no different, for example.
If he is scared of traffic cones, 'borrow' some and put them in his field/stable and decorate them with treats.
If he is scared of polythene/tarpaulins - flap a carrot filled bag/tarp at him etc.
Bit of creativity - you'll be there!
S

 

[Shilasdair]

also - out of interest - where do you buy these robotic horses that dont get upset at anything - also - as i said previously - im perhaps more upset that its other horse riders that did this - not idiot drivers or cyclists who know no better.
If other riders cant be polite and courteous isnt it a shame - ps shilasdair this wasnt you in leeds today was it

No horse is born 'robotic' and 'not getting upset at anything'; the point is you ought to train yours!
In this situation, I don't think the person trotting upsides with you in order not to inconvenience other road users was the 'idiot'...
S

 

[hannahmurphy]

Rude. You don't know how the horse(s) in front will react. Had it done to me, I was really annoyed.

 

[darkhorse123]

If you are a novice, get an experienced horse to ride.
If your horse is young/green, ride out in company - but TRAIN him so that he gets used to things/situations you may meet. If your horse is ok with horses trotting up behind him in a school, then on a road it should be no different, for example.
If he is scared of traffic cones, 'borrow' some and put them in his field/stable and decorate them with treats.
If he is scared of polythene/tarpaulins - flap a carrot filled bag/tarp at him etc.
Bit of creativity - you'll be there!
S

my horse leads others out in front of scarey objects - hes fab on the roads. He just doesnt like others running behind then in front of him - he wasnt scared - he wanted to race them which isnt safe at a junction or busy road hence why i had trouble holding him back - as you seem so expereinced im sure you can appreciate i need to control his pace on a busy road - especially when we have to turn off 50 yards down -for first time ever i feared he woudnt stop - he was going. But yes i did stop him so i cant be that bad - oooo and shil hes a hated cob!

 

[crabbymare]

Bit of a catch 22 situation, you are riding quietly along a small road towards a big main road, road is twisty and although you had seen them in the distance you had not seen the others coming up close behind you so horses heard them before you could see them.
Other riders set out for a hack see a group of horses in the distance and because they have a forward going type that may be fresh trot on for the sanity of the horse. They do not see you are a short distance ahead as the road is twisty which is the same reason you had not seen them coming up behind you. How are they to know that you are nervous and how are you to know they do not possibly have a young or sharp horse to ride?
Difficult from both you and them, and although yes it could be that they were rude or thoughtless equally how are they to know that you are on a horse that would get upset by horses coming up from behind? mine do not worry about that sort of thing and a lot of others don't either so although I would not do a fast trot up behind someone and shoot past them I would slow down and call out once I was within a reasonable shouting distance or if I thought one of them was having a problem.

 

[darkhorse123]

my horse leads others out in front of scarey objects - hes fab on the roads. He just doesnt like others running behind then in front of him - he wasnt scared - he wanted to race them which isnt safe at a junction or busy road hence why i had trouble holding him back - as you seem so expereinced im sure you can appreciate i need to control his pace on a busy road - especially when we have to turn off 50 yards down -for first time ever i feared he woudnt stop - he was going. But yes i did stop him so i cant be that bad - oooo and shil hes a hated cob!

just reread your post and second time it doesnt seem so horrid - im sorry if i "bit" but my horse is a good lad and im defensive of him - im upset because these idiots coudl have got us all hurt to day - i didnt and dont hack him out willy nilly. i go with safe sane horses and riders - hi vizzed to teh eyeballs and am peved other riders coudl risk us like this. Car drivers, cyclists - you half expect it - but not other horse riders and owners

 

[Maesfen]

so as i said - how do i learn then? how did you learn to hack out safely in all situations without going ont he roads?
Seems like a bit of a catch 22 - if you dont try how do you know?

If you practise at home so that you are confident that you can control your horse as and when you need to is a big start. Ask friends to pass towards and from behind as many times as they can (without warning you either!) so that you learn to control him whatever he does. Anyone got a starting pistol or similar, they're good to get used to in a confined space (school), umbrellas dotted on the ground, absolutely anything you can think of that could cause you a problem, even cyclist coming up behind you; it will all help you become confident in the handling of your horse which will help you when you start hacking out. Teach your horse to accept anything and everything but passing towards and from behind you while you stay at your same pace or stand are some of the most important things you can teach your horse which will always be useful.

 

[Kellys Heroes]

We've hacked out (always hi viz, sensibly riding and courteous of every other road (and land) user) and come across situations such as herds of loose cows, helicopters landing (that was a good one!), fire engines etc and coped with the lot but there is nothing that winds my horse up more than another horse (whether she knows it or not) approaching from behind at a spanking trot (or canter as we've experienced before) and carrying on past her I feel she is quite unconfident in herself and doesn't like being left behind and it takes us a while then to settle back down without her eyes being on stalks and ears on swivel mode!

If it was me, at the very least I'd call out and ask if it was okay for me to overtake or approach (or in this case, ask if it was okay to join to cross the road safely - I can understand if this was the reason they were trotting to ask, but again, I'd slow down once in shouting distance) - normally I divert my route if I spot a horse in front, as I do prefer to hack alone mostly tbh

You coped well OP, don't be put down x
K x

 

[darkhorse123]

If you practise at home so that you are confident that you can control your horse as and when you need to is a big start. Ask friends to pass towards and from behind as many times as they can (without warning you either!) so that you learn to control him whatever he does. Anyone got a starting pistol or similar, they're good to get used to in a confined space (school), umbrellas dotted on the ground, absolutely anything you can think of that could cause you a problem, even cyclist coming up behind you; it will all help you become confident in the handling of your horse which will help you when you start hacking out. Teach your horse to accept anything and everything but passing towards and from behind you while you stay at your same pace or stand are some of the most important things you can teach your horse which will always be useful.

ty i will really take this advice - ive got good friends at my yard who i know will help us - we really need to learn how to cope with other horses and riders approaching and overtaking us x

 

[darkhorse123]

We've hacked out (always hi viz, sensibly riding and courteous of every other road (and land) user) and come across situations such as herds of loose cows, helicopters landing (that was a good one!), fire engines etc and coped with the lot but there is nothing that winds my horse up more than another horse (whether she knows it or not) approaching from behind at a spanking trot (or canter as we've experienced before) and carrying on past her I feel she is quite unconfident in herself and doesn't like being left behind and it takes us a while then to settle back down without her eyes being on stalks and ears on swivel mode!

If it was me, at the very least I'd call out and ask if it was okay for me to overtake or approach (or in this case, ask if it was okay to join to cross the road safely - I can understand if this was the reason they were trotting to ask, but again, I'd slow down once in shouting distance) - normally I divert my route if I spot a horse in front, as I do prefer to hack alone mostly tbh

You coped well OP, don't be put down x
K x

ty x

 

[darkhorse123]

If you practise at home so that you are confident that you can control your horse as and when you need to is a big start. Ask friends to pass towards and from behind as many times as they can (without warning you either!) so that you learn to control him whatever he does. Anyone got a starting pistol or similar, they're good to get used to in a confined space (school), umbrellas dotted on the ground, absolutely anything you can think of that could cause you a problem, even cyclist coming up behind you; it will all help you become confident in the handling of your horse which will help you when you start hacking out. Teach your horse to accept anything and everything but passing towards and from behind you while you stay at your same pace or stand are some of the most important things you can teach your horse which will always be useful.

yes i think you are right - hes fine with traffic but his antics today have shown me he needs to learn how to not race when confronted with passing horses - ty, i have a school and can ask friends to help me with this

This is why i asked the origianl op - now i feel silly. Of course my horse should be controlled if a tank of horses pass him - ty

Though i still would have manners and not pass another rider - especially on busy roads

 

[EllenJay]

And how do you get experience of coping with these situations if you don't get out there and do it?

The OP DID cope, but she was shaken by the experience. All she asked was if we considered the other riders to be rude - and most people think they were.

You get experience by hacking with experienced riders who are willing to teach you how to cope while out on the road.

This teaching includeds doing things like trotting behind and overtaking, and then letting you trot behind and overtake. Walking, trotting and cantering behind, infront and side-by-side.

They should also be teaching the inexperienced person to listen to their horse - i.e. the horse knows before the rider when something is coming up behind that the horse doesn't like, and will tell the rider by little "tells" like tense backs, shorter strides and maybe trying to look behind. If the rider feels this, and is not sure what is coming behind and what the horse is reacting to, you turn to face it. Horses are a lot calmer if they can see what is coming behind!

Hacking is an art and takes a lot of learning, both on the part of the rider and the horse.

The OP did do well in coping, but will have to learn to cope with this and more. I am very worried that if she had trouble with horses trotting up behind her, what happens when she is on the ring road if a lorry driver touches his air brakes or a motorbike overtakes at 60mph?

 

[rockysmum]

I have had that happen to me a few times in the 30 years I have owned my forward going rather explosive cob. I have to say that never the same person twice These rather rude people can get quite upset when they end up in a trotting race with a cob who a traveller once stopped me and said "that thing could road race"

But seriously I find that talking to people usually works. I would have called to them and asked them to stay behind as your horse would be upset. Many people ride along in their own little world and dont consider the consequences. I have had a few people pull faces and act a little superior, but never actually ignore me.

Well done for surviving it

 

[siennamum]

I've got to be honest. The other rider/s joining your group prior to crossing the main road is IMO the sensible thing to do. Another horse trotting along a road which I am also riding on is a trivial matter. A group of horses trotting off into the distance, when I am waiting to cross a road is potentially dangerous situation. I would always cross roads as one group, would wait if I saw another rider coming up behind me and might well trot to catch up with someone who is due to cross a road ahead of me.

I am entirely confused about why a horse with a novice rider on board would find what you have described distressing. It should be completely bombproof if you are nervous and inexperienced.

 

[traceyann]

If i see or am behind or approach allways in walk weather i know them or not. Its good manners. My horses know the rules will do it themself if they hear them before i see them

 

[*hic*]

I've got to be honest. The other rider/s joining your group prior to crossing the main road is IMO the sensible thing to do. Another horse trotting along a road which I am also riding on is a trivial matter. A group of horses trotting off into the distance, when I am waiting to cross a road is potentially dangerous situation. I would always cross roads as one group, would wait if I saw another rider coming up behind me and might well trot to catch up with someone who is due to cross a road ahead of me.

I am entirely confused about why a horse with a novice rider on board would find what you have described distressing. It should be completely bombproof if you are nervous and inexperienced.

^^^ this.

Further, I'd consider it rude not to wait for the other group.

 

[Flame_]

This is an interesting thread. OP and Darkhorse, go on lots of fun rides so your horses get used to following and being passed by other groups without the traffic to contend with.

I once caught up with a girl leading her horse along a lane with one of the driving ponies. She shouted me to stop, which I did, then she turned round and carried on walking at a snails pace, so I set off again. She then shouted "Can you get back, he doesn't like them?" I said, "Well I need to come past you". Her, "He's been on box rest for weeks, you can't come past, he'll go mental, you'll have to wait or go back."
Me, "You've just walked past a gateway that you could have pulled into. I will happily keep still while you come back and walk past me, which is what I thought you would do when I stopped for you. One way or another, I am trotting down this road. either you can turn round for a sec and pass me, or I will be passing you, your horse's box rest is not my problem."

OK, she got me on a bad day, and I don't like being told what to do, but it really annoyed me that she thought her horse's freshness and her inability to manage it were somehow reason to control traffic and it pushed my awkward button.

It didn't end very well. She got in a flap and started running down the road with this horse (I wasn't right up their backside or anything) horse starts jumping about and she lets its lunge line out, it kicks her and she starts screaming at me. The driving pony's just stood there while her horse is losing the plot. Fortunately, a car coming past was going to this woman's livery yard. Passenger takes the loopy horse and screaming woman gets in the car. Passenger walks no longer loopy horse straight past the carriage and back home. Stupid woman for bringing such a fresh horse out in hand anyway but had she just circled round past me in the first place it should have been drama free.

The point about hacking is that much can happen which is out of your control, and people on horses or in other forms of transport will always catch you up and sometimes want to pass. That isn't rude.

 

[diggerbez]

oooh interesting post...sorry you've had a scare OP but i have to say that i don't think that someone who considers themselves to be a nervous novice should be riding on the Leeds ringroad! i'm not a nervous novice but no chance would i ride on there! i won't even ride on our local main road which is only 30 mph because its a busy road and ambulances are always whizzing up and down to the A&E....as are buses etc. my horse is bombproof and hacks happily over the motorway (over the bridge above it!) but i've been run over before on old horse- fortunately at slow speeds and it was scary the thing about hacking is that you can't control what others- riders, cyclists, drivers, dog walkers- do. yes we might expect people to behave in a certain way but they might not....
FWIW i often overtake people when hacking and on farm rides etc. my horse goes faster in walk than most horses and when on a farm ride i do a lot in a very forward canter. however, i don't sneak up on people and do try to shout to ask to come past. my old TB was a sod for people coming past him but that was MY problem- not anybody else's.....

 

[marmalade76]

Very well said, Diggerbez. Totally agree.

 

[maresmaid]

You get experience by hacking with experienced riders who are willing to teach you how to cope while out on the road.

This teaching includeds doing things like trotting behind and overtaking, and then letting you trot behind and overtake. Walking, trotting and cantering behind, infront and side-by-side.

They should also be teaching the inexperienced person to listen to their horse - i.e. the horse knows before the rider when something is coming up behind that the horse doesn't like, and will tell the rider by little "tells" like tense backs, shorter strides and maybe trying to look behind. If the rider feels this, and is not sure what is coming behind and what the horse is reacting to, you turn to face it. Horses are a lot calmer if they can see what is coming behind!

Hacking is an art and takes a lot of learning, both on the part of the rider and the horse.

The OP did do well in coping, but will have to learn to cope with this and more. I am very worried that if she had trouble with horses trotting up behind her, what happens when she is on the ring road if a lorry driver touches his air brakes or a motorbike overtakes at 60mph?

This is very true - but all this "teaching" will not take place in one lesson, it is a gradual process and will take many outings to perfect, the OP has made it clear that she intends to continue to address this problem with her horse.

The original question asked was if it was acceptable to approach a unfamiliar group of horses in this particular situation, and in this particular way, surely it would be unreasonable of us all to simply assume that every horse we come accross will always be perfectly behaved, and always perfectly trained, and always ridden by an experienced rider? There will always be the inexperienced rider, the young horse out for the first time on the roads, the experienced rider not yet fully familiar with a new horse in this situation. Why is it so difficult for us all to simply apply some courtesy and consideration towards each other? We all enjoy the same sport - surely we should be encouraging others to become more confident and learn about it and enjoy it too, even if that sometimes means we need to be just a little more patient, and tolerant, and remember that we weren't all born perfect riders, even the more experienced ones among us can find ourselves in the middle of an unexpected "freaky" moment, is it really entirely unreasonable to suggest that we should all try to help eachother out when we can?