True outline? How can you tell?

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Olas11

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Hiya :) New to the forum *waves*

When looking through pictures taken by my OH when I was trying out my new neddy, I noticed that, particularly at walk, she appears to be round/on the bit. I wonder if this is my inexperienced eye tricking me and whether she is in fact simply leaning into the bridle or evading.

How can you truly tell whether a horse is working properly from behind or just superficially lowering at the poll? I understand it may be difficult to make any conclusion from the below photos, and seeing the horse in motion may be necessary, but any tell-tale signs that she was in fact working from behind and rounding her back or just leaning? She certainly didn't feel heavy in my hands.

Please note - I was riding in a child's saddle and my stirrups were also insanely short... So please don't judge my position! *Cringe* Here goes......

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Thank you!
 
What bit is she in, it looks like a dutch gag or similar, to me it looks as if she is just tucking her nose in because of the leverage, her tummy is definitely not lifting so her back will not be either, look at the tummy and see if there is a line about level with your heel to show her lifting up and using her core when she is moving.
You cannot tell one way or another definitively from a photo but just because it feels good does not mean it is correct, she may not be heavy but that is probably due to the bit rather than her carrying herself correctly, plenty of work in a snaffle ahead of you, get her using her core and that large tummy should start to take shape, enjoy your new horse and get a good instructor to help you develop your skills and bring her on, there is no reason she cannot carry herself.

I just realised the above sounds rather negative, which it was not meant to be, I was trying to answer your questions and give a reason why to me she does not appear to be carrying herself properly and how much you would benefit from some help to get you going.
 
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be positive said:
What bit is she in, it looks like a dutch gag or similar, to me it looks as if she is just tucking her nose in because of the leverage, her tummy is definitely not lifting so her back will not be either, look at the tummy and see if there is a line about level with your heel to show her lifting up and using her core when she is moving.
You cannot tell one way or another definitively from a photo but just because it feels good does not mean it is correct, she may not be heavy but that is probably due to the bit rather than her carrying herself correctly, plenty of work in a snaffle ahead of you, get her using her core and that large tummy should start to take shape, enjoy your new horse and get a good instructor to help you develop your skills and bring her on, there is no reason she cannot carry herself.
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Thank you for your response!

That's what I thought re the bit, as she is in a three-ring gag.. (all the riding school horses are put in gags to give novice riders 'better breaks' - I know how flawed this is..) and will be swapping for a snaffle as soon as she arrives.
 
The best person to evaluate whether the horse is truly through is the rider (educated rider, I should add); experienced observers on the ground can tell as the horse moves; the camera is the least qualified of all to form a true judgement.

How can you tell? Experience and education.
 
Cortez said:
The best person to evaluate whether the horse is truly through is the rider (educated rider, I should add); experienced observers on the ground can tell as the horse moves; the camera is the least qualified of all to form a true judgement.

How can you tell? Experience and education.
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Thanks for your reply :)

That's what I thought to be honest, but thought there may be some sort of tell-tale sign that would mean she definitely was *not* through. Would love to hear your description of what it feels like when a horse is truly on the bit!
 
It's difficult to describe the feel of 'on the bit' but I can give you my personal description of what it feels like when they move to go onto the bit. Imagine an articulated lorry, where the front is towing the back. Now imagine that you put power to the back wheels, and the trailer hitches onto the locking pad just behind the cab. It feels like an 'up and over and hitch' movement from behind the saddle ending in front of the wither.

If that's gobbledygook to you, sorry. I think the horse in your photos is going nicely for a thickly set cob, but as others have said, only feel or a good set of eyes on the ground will really tell you
 
The back end of the horse is the engine and the hind legs should allows step under, so really what you should be concentrating on is how the bum working? A 'three ring gag' is a curb bit and acts as a lever and pulls down the nose, and her head may feel quite heavy in your hands, when really if she was working properly it would feel light, but you would still feel in control. If the horse is flexing its neck too much, there is no weight at all, and its avoiding the bit.
Feel is a bit like riding a bike, once you learn you may not have it all the time but you will know when you have it. A trick I learned when I was young is when you are hacking and walking home the horse is always keener and more forward going. Quietly,maintain the same speed but feel the power of the hind legs stepping underneath, then using you hands tactfully try adjusting the pressure and release of the reins and see what effect it has, its not pulling back but giving and taking resistance, but keeping the same speed and momentum. Its good way to learn how your hands resistance effects the horse.
 
For me you physically feel them lift up and underneath you. Like image sitting on a slight arch rather than a slight dip. It feels powerful and not something you can miss really. where the face is, is the absolutely last piece of the puzzle :)
 
be positive said:
I just realised the above sounds rather negative, which it was not meant to be, I was trying to answer your questions and give a reason why to me she does not appear to be carrying herself properly and how much you would benefit from some help to get you going.
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Not at all, this is exactly what i'm looking for! I'm not looking for someone to tell me what I would of course want to hear, I am looking for fact and constructive help and that's exactly what your post is :) - thank you.
 
Having only recently got my horse to the point of working correctly (albeit inconsistently) I can only describe it as feeling like your horses back has jumped up. You'll feel them under you more and they will have so much more balance and consistent rhythm. Once you've felt it, you'll immediately know when they don't do it!
 
alainax said:
For me you physically feel them lift up and underneath you. Like image sitting on a slight arch rather than a slight dip. It feels powerful and not something you can miss really. where the face is, is the absolutely last piece of the puzzle :)
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^^ this is what I've been taught. Once we had this cracked the whole thing improved.
 
really good thing to do is to go and get a lesson on a dressage schoolmaster to get the feel of what it should be like.
 
She looks through to me. Moving her hind leg under to support her body on the 2nd photo, her legs are parallel (forearm at front and metatarsal at back) which is often not the case if they are hollowing their back. Her neck is arched but not broken at the 3rd vertebra, her poll could be higher but it still too early in the training (plus she might have a thick gullet).
Now to keep that at trot. I would avoid any fiddling with the contact (except 1 sponging with legs and lighter in seat if she needs a half halt to rebalance) but rather lots of circles with leg yield on the circle, figures of 8 and transitions to be in front of the leg.
Good luck, she looks lovely. Did you just buy her from the riding school?
 
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Palindrome said:
She looks through to me. Moving her hind leg under to support her body on the 2nd photo, her legs are parallel (forearm at front and metatarsal at back) which is often not the case if they are hollowing their back. Her neck is arched but not broken at the 3rd vertebra, her poll could be higher but it still too early in the training (plus she might have a thick gullet).
Now to keep that at trot. I would avoid any fiddling with the contact (except 1 sponging with legs and lighter in seat if she needs a half halt to rebalance) but rather lots of circles with leg yield on the circle, figures of 8 and transitions to be in front of the leg.
Good luck, she looks lovely. Did you just buy her from the riding school?
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Thank you very much for your reply - really excited to start playing around with this!

Yes, I have just bought her from a riding school, she really is a diamond in the rough, she is so so quiet on the ground and a really lovely, honest ride. I had tried several - both private and from the same riding school - but I knew she was special as soon as I saw her. She will be moved to my yard this coming Friday!
 
honetpot said:
The back end of the horse is the engine and the hind legs should allows step under, so really what you should be concentrating on is how the bum working? A 'three ring gag' is a curb bit and acts as a lever and pulls down the nose, and her head may feel quite heavy in your hands, when really if she was working properly it would feel light, but you would still feel in control. If the horse is flexing its neck too much, there is no weight at all, and its avoiding the bit.
Feel is a bit like riding a bike, once you learn you may not have it all the time but you will know when you have it. A trick I learned when I was young is when you are hacking and walking home the horse is always keener and more forward going. Quietly,maintain the same speed but feel the power of the hind legs stepping underneath, then using you hands tactfully try adjusting the pressure and release of the reins and see what effect it has, its not pulling back but giving and taking resistance, but keeping the same speed and momentum. Its good way to learn how your hands resistance effects the horse.
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Thank you for your reply, will certainly have a play around on the way back from a hack!
 
paddi22 said:
really good thing to do is to go and get a lesson on a dressage schoolmaster to get the feel of what it should be like.
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This might give a false impression when comparing to a cob... I am not anti cobs (my traditional is working at medium) but they don't feel the same in any respect to warm bloods ... The feeling of being on the bit is one of lightness everywhere and the horse carrying you forward willingly while it feels like you are sitting on an arc made of the horses back with you in the balance point in the middle. If when you move your hand the horse doesn't respond appropriately it is not thru properly.
 
It's a lovely feeling and once you achieve it you will know.....the horses back elevates and you feel slightly uphill. The front is light, with power coming from the rear but in control.
 
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