Trying to find a suitable diet for a thin, ulcer prone Tb.

[Roisin_M]

Long story short, I'm about to get a TB gelding who loses codition through the winter, and i'm trying to find suitable feeds for him. The problem is in the past he has suffered from gastric ulcers so obviously I can't overload him with concentrate feeds.

I've literally been searching the internet, reading books, contacting feed suppliers and my mind is so muddled its unreal!

I've come up with this diet for now, as he's in very light work and i'm basically going to start from the beginning so it will be nothing but lunging, longreining and very short hacks for a while.

Dengie alfa a oil - (because this is what he's on atm, and it seems to help him hold abit of condition)

Hi Fi Balancer - (I think he needs a balancer to provide all the vits/mins he needs and the hi-fi one is much cheaper than the alfa a one and still suitable, when hes in harder work I may swap over)

BHF fibre beet - (This is where I got confused, because the fibre beet contains alfa a already, but I think he needs some succelants in his diet because the dry diet he currently eats bores him and he leaves alot, should I just use speedi beet instead or i've heard of this stuff called soft n soak solution mash?)

and also, Grass pellets soaked and fed in a bucket when he's having to stay in by day a few times to keep fibre passing through.

But what supplements should I give?

There is the really expensive ones specifically for gastric ulcers but he hasnt had ulcers for about three years now so i dont want to go down the route of spending a fortune on things he doesnt need, so i was thinking a general supplement but sort of aimed towards the digestion such as NAF Pink Powder, of NAF Thrive(which i've heard good things about)Equimins Pro Bio, Nutriscience Biotal Equine Gold?

Anybody got any idea about any of these supplements, or any suggestions?

Sorry if the above makes no sense atall, i'm not great with the nutrition side of horses!

Thanks!

 

[tobiano1984]

I'd recommend looking at Simple Systems - I've used their feed for several thoroughbreds, all in poor condition, and it's really good. I haven't had a horse with ulcer issues, but I gather that it's good for that too. It's mostly lucerne and grass based, and it's not expensive - similar to Hi-Fi etc. You feed huge buckets-full of the stuff to TBs, and it fills their gut up which is why I think it's meant to be good for ulcers.
Linseed supplement puts weight on really rapidly, without being unhealthy. Amazing shiny coats too!
Google the company - if you call head office they can advise you. I used to feed my TB lucerne nuts and unmolassed beet. He loved it!

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

Keep it simple - an umolassed, oil coated alfalfa, A&P Fast Fibre - it contains all vits and mins and unmolassed beet so does everything the beet and balancer would do - also contains linseed.

You can make up big trugs of it if necessary when staying in alongside ad lib hay. My nieces 20 yr TB has that and keep his weight on no problem. For extra calories when it is snowy etc he also has Coolstance.

Alfalfa between £7 - £10 depending on brand
Fast Fibre £8 a bag
Coolstance - £15 a bag

Simple, uncomplicated, no cereals or molasses.

 

[posie_honey]

agree above bar fast fibre - its a very low mj/kg feed designed for lamanitics etc - i'd instead go for their calm and condition - again its fully fortified so you'd not need to add anything in terms of vits and mins

i'd also be adding a glug of oil to each feed as an extra calorie top-up

and of course ad lib hay/haylege at all times - that is the most important thing of all

 

[Kat]

I've just started my difficult to keep weight on mare on Pure feeds pure condition. Would be worth a look at their website.

 

[jenz87]

My horse has just been diagnosed with grade 3 ulcers yesterday and im considering feeding the following;

Fibre-Beet
Readi Grass

Adlib hay & Turnout & Graze on Grass Pellets at lunch in winter (due to restricted turnout)

Not to hijack the post but does that sound ok?
Maybe a glug of sunflower oil to keep kals up?

 

[Horseback Rider]

I have had my TB for the third winter now and this year he has kept the weight on he is on

Alfa A Oil
Speedi Beet
Spillers High Fibre cubes
Adlib hay when in at night

He gets the above twice a day if stabled at night and once a day if out 24/7 on decent grazing which we get sporadically from a local farmer. He maybe doesn't need hard feed when he is out but if I take him off all hard feed then add it in again he gets gassy colic.

It is hit and miss with this type of beast and you will find something that suits you but some of the staples are:

No cereals
Ad lib hay
As much turn out as possible

I have also found that this winter I am on a bigger yard and there are loads mroe horses around which my ex racer seems to like as he lies down every night for a kip which he never used to do and I had to wait for him to get up this morning !

 

[kit279]

Pure Feeds - very straightforward and has kept the weight on all 3 TBs this winter. One in particular is very sensitive and hard to keep weight on and I really really rate the stuff. I wouldn't necessarily feed any supplements with it - the Pure Condition stuff is the only thing I feed and they do amazingly well on it.

 

[ofcourseyoucan]

a high fibre based diet, ad lib quality hay/haylege,oil, high fibre cubes, carrots and apples to encourage him to eat up. And of course a good rug based on temps in your area, worm check and teeth check. Good luck weight gain should be slow/steady, and in a few weeks dr green will be your best friend and you should see a significant improvement in 4 months or so. difficult to get them to add condition at this time of year, aim to maintain what he has got and gain slowly.

 

[kezimac]

another vote for pure condition

 

[CBAnglo]

As much hay as possible - this will really help keep the weight on. Not haylage, this just irritated the ulcers on my TB.

I feed hi-fi lite/good doer chaff, something low cal as it is just something to add the supplements to and to feed 30 mins before exercise to avoid splash ulcers. I also feed Spillers fibre cubes - amount depends on how much work he is in.

I avoid sugar/treats etc as this just sets him off, as well as garlic, which really irritates his stomach. I feed speedi-beet in winter when he needs more weight on.

If he still has ulcers, then you need to clear them and then manage his routine to help prevent him getting them again. As much turnout as possible and ad-lib hay is really the best way to go.

 

[whizzer]

What you've got planned sounds fine,I would add in some Linseed though as it good for stomach health & good for keeping weight on.
Also Top spec cool condition cubes would fit the bill as they are no cereal & low starch but high fibre & high oil.

 

[whizzer]

a high fibre based diet, ad lib quality hay/haylege,oil, high fibre cubes, carrots and apples to encourage him to eat up. And of course a good rug based on temps in your area, worm check and teeth check. Good luck weight gain should be slow/steady, and in a few weeks dr green will be your best friend and you should see a significant improvement in 4 months or so. difficult to get them to add condition at this time of year, aim to maintain what he has got and gain slowly.

When I looked into diets for ulcer prone horses I found lots of stuff that said to avoid carrots & apples?

 

[FairyLights]

As much fibre as he will eat,hay;fast fibre[Allen &PAge] ; any other low cereal hi fibre cube;alfalfa chaff. Linseed to add calories charnwood mills do a micronised linseed, or you could boil seeds into a soothing gloop. Turnout is important to keep him strolling about and help digestion.

 

[LizzieJ]

Another vote for Pure Feeds

 

[Mince Pie]

Wow! Erm there are easier (and cheaper!) ways of feeding this horse. My TB was diagnosed with ulcers at the end of last year, had the typical sign of being grumpy when I touched her belly etc. She is now on ad lib hay (a round bale in the field and huge net at night), alha a oil, D&H build up cubes, micronized linseed, speedibeet and think pink vit/min supp. The difference in a month is amazing and she looks great. Yes fibre is a big part of the diet but it should be "high protein, high oil and low fat" as well (directly quoted from vet).

 

[Pale Rider]

Whatever you decide to feed in a bucket, I'm a big fan of Simple System, make sure the hay or haylage is ad lib.

 

[Roisin_M]

Thanks everyone for your help, I am still struggling tbh, maybe because the horse isnt in my care yet so i havent been able to 'try out' any new diet yet, I will be moving in a week or so and then he'll be mine.

He is already on copious amounts of Alfa A Oil & Alfa A, which he does okay on apparently, but he is atm, in no work whatsoever, its purely maintainance.

I have been reading though, and have been told by a feed supplier that not only the Alfa A but also the soya oil it is coated in, can be inflammatory and irritant to horses stomachs?

I'm definately going down the Linseed route, but which is best, a Linseed Oil or a Micronised/Instant Linseed?

Thanks for your continued help!

 

[xxRachelxx]

How about Saracen Releve? It is a mix that was designed for competition horses that are prone to tying up so it is high fibre, high oil, low starch and cereal free. Here is a link to their web page which has info and reviews etc

http://www.saracen-horse-feeds.co.uk/products/leisure/welfare/re-leve.html

 

[TigerTail]

I suggest you ring Debbie, the nutrionist at Thunderbrook. Her feed isnt crammed with fillers and binders like the pellets and nuts all tend to be. Nor is it molassed. The basemix, bran and live oats are great for weight gain.

Also the most important thing with ulcers is 24/7 trickle feeding, another benefit to thunderbrooks is its a tiny but nutritious and calorific feed, without being smothered in oil.

He should never be without food, living out tends to lend to this better and also stops stable vices and stresses which cause the acid in the gut to flare up again.

http://thunderbrook.co.uk/

 

[Dr_Horse]

I've got a mare who has ulcers and lost alother of weight due to colics.
She is on
simple systems blue grass pellets
Simple systems top nosh
unmollassesed sugar beet
mollichaff (showshine)
In terms of sups she is on
limestone flour
Garlic
top spec 10:10 joint support
and life force
she looked appalling 8 weeks ago and now she has a gorgeous gleam to her coat and is gaining weight really well!!!

 

[Roisin_M]

You guys are great! Thanks for putting up with my nonsensical ramblings

He will have ad lib, constant access to hay, not haylage, and will be out as much as possible! Aswell as ad lib hay when in, I will also give him a large tub of soaked grass pellets to keep him munching and happy if he's in longer than expected.

I'll also feed him just before he's ridden/exercised, what would you suggest for this feed, a small bowl of something soaked, like fibre beet? or a dampened chop like Alfa A?

I've been reading up on the Pure Feeds, and the Pure Condition sounds good, I contacted them and they assured me it would be suitable for him! Also, Mollichaff Condition looks good, it is much cheaper than the Pure Condition but I imagine its because its not as complete.

Its hard contacting feed comps really, because of course they all say their food is the best.

I'm abit worried about the alfa a oil now, because according to one feed company the huge amount of soya oil has the potential to be inflammatory? Has anyone else heard this?

 

[TopTotty]

If you need any help www.supplements4horses.co.uk give independent nutritional advice.

 

[jacksmum]

I know you are prob sorted by now but just wanted to add how fab Pure feeds are.
My TB loves it and is looking good on it