Turn out woes😔

laura_nash

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We are at a friends yard and could turn out 24/7 if we wanted, instead our three horses go out Saturdays only for around six hours which is plenty
I muck them out myself and have a routine that cuts the work to a minimum giving me plenty of time to ride.
Not sure why you would want a horse out any longer there is nothing in the grass for them and wading through mud in the dark to ride of an evening probably would not happen

I can only hope hope that all three of your horses are in proper work, that is at least an hour a day hard work or at least three hours a day lighter work.
 

windand rain

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Sometimes think there is a place for dry lots in the uk where horses can be outside and have dry underfoot conditions and be fed hay or soaked hay at stations around the lot. As long as hay is not just a round bale dumped in a knee deep area of mud horses thrive outside. the bigger the acreage in winter the less mud more or less irrelevant of weather conditions or soil type if your soil type cannot support horses it is not suitable for liveries unless of course you have hundreds of acres and can keep it in good condition
 

Cortez

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Sometimes think there is a place for dry lots in the uk where horses can be outside and have dry underfoot conditions and be fed hay or soaked hay at stations around the lot. As long as hay is not just a round bale dumped in a knee deep area of mud horses thrive outside. the bigger the acreage in winter the less mud more or less irrelevant of weather conditions or soil type if your soil type cannot support horses it is not suitable for liveries unless of course you have hundreds of acres and can keep it in good condition

Only "sometimes"? I've had a turn out arena for nearly 7 years.
 

MagicMelon

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Personally I would leave ASAP. I couldnt have my horse on a yard where I wasn't on great terms with the YO who had handlings with my horse. Turnout is massively important to me, Im very lucky to keep mine at my own house so they're out 24/7, but if I had to livery then all year round turnout would be a huge factor for me. And as yours has ulcers, I wouldnt make my horse put up with being stabled all the time even for any length of time...
 

Northern

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We are at a friends yard and could turn out 24/7 if we wanted, instead our three horses go out Saturdays only for around six hours which is plenty
I muck them out myself and have a routine that cuts the work to a minimum giving me plenty of time to ride.
Not sure why you would want a horse out any longer there is nothing in the grass for them and wading through mud in the dark to ride of an evening probably would not happen

I get that we have more room in Australia to turn out (I've always had horses out 24/7 with no stables and for years no undercover areas at all. Trees for shelter and appropriate rugging), but this is pretty shocking IMO. When did it become the norm to completely remove a horse from their natural interactions? Horses are no different to a bunch of schoolkids establishing order. There will be scraps and tantrums but at the end of the day that's how it has worked for thousands of years and how it will continue to. I think if we're so worried about injuries from normal herd interactions that we completely isolate contact, we have no business keeping horses :(
 

Cortez

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Horses used to be kept stabled much more than they are today, actually. When horses worked for a living they seldom got out in a field at all (re-reading Black Beauty at the moment...), and most were kept in stalls, not loose boxes. It seems that horse keeping has gone from one extreme to the other - over fed and under worked.
 

JulesRules

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I'm pretty sure I know where you are Jules and your yard manager is a fruitcake who shouldn't be in charge of a herd of guinea pigs

We have year round turnout and I think, possibly, one space left

I know we have spoken before but will you message me and let me know which yard you are on?

PS from our previous conversation I think the fruitcake is someone else just down the road.
 

Northern

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Horses used to be kept stabled much more than they are today, actually. When horses worked for a living they seldom got out in a field at all (re-reading Black Beauty at the moment...), and most were kept in stalls, not loose boxes. It seems that horse keeping has gone from one extreme to the other - over fed and under worked.

Arguably though, horses were worked damned hard in those days and had to earn their keep. I imagine they would be kept moving for much longer than just the hour or so of these days, as per your last sentence!
 

JFTDWS

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But we're also not suggesting that welfare was universally - or even generally - better when horses were worked harder and never turned out, I hope. In the evolutionary history of the horse, the period in which they were stabled and worked hard, and rarely allowed to interact naturally, has been very, very short. The time they've spent evolving to travel large distances slowly, while interacting naturally, is probably more relevant. The fact that we can't offer those sorts of distances is problematic, but supports more time in turnout, not less - with more acreage, and yes, for the majority of horses, as much work as is reasonably possible.
 

Dave's Mam

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I must have the ultimate Holy Grail of yards. We are on over 60 acres of well rotated fields. We tend to do a few months on each field then move. We're in at night from November til April, but you can turn out & bring in at will, as long as no pony left out alone, but we work that between us. Yes it's a large commercial yard & staff always able to help.

Absolute bonus is a lovely bunch of folk. Icing on the cake.
 

GTRJazz

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Why would you keep food scarce when they are turned out in a group? That's just daft surely?! Ours interact in a walking round sort of way as the one in charge keeps thinking the next hay pile is better so round they go.
We have an interconnecting space between stables too, now that actually does cause more arguments between our specific two but it's totally inadequate for good interaction and movement.

https://www.facebook.com/paul.cawson/videos/vb.527888236/10155148680103237/?type=3 our horses are fine but have had a few kicks when out with others. It is a regional thing as regards turn out around here which is Essex a lot of yards will not let the horses out at all for up to 7 months of the year which is why I purchased my first field as it is a must for my horses to go out at least once a week.
 

Chuffy99

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Sadly JFTD-WS with good old Essex clay there are a lot of overhorsed yards that close the fields in October and they don’t open them till April in a dry year. We have one yard in the area that go out one day a week all year round, well fed but they just stand there, it’s dire
 

JFTDWS

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Sadly JFTD-WS with good old Essex clay there are a lot of overhorsed yards that close the fields in October and they don’t open them till April in a dry year. We have one yard in the area that go out one day a week all year round, well fed but they just stand there, it’s dire

I've kept horses in Essex for 20 years and I have never encountered a yard which didn't turnout at all over winter. Most of those years were spent quite near to the poster who claimed the local yards shut their fields all winter too - I know that he is wrong about that.
 

Quigleyandme

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I bought my first horse in 2001 and was at a livery yard for 7.5 years. The yard owner was a good egg and a good manager but her husband would not entertain any investment in the place so the fields were 99% rank weeds and the fencing was woeful. Then there was the yard bully to contend with. I too worked long hours and had a long commute and a kid in primary school but I got my own place and got out of bed by 05:00 to do what I had to do before work. Happy owner = happy horses. If you are tense and angry at the yard your horse will know about it and your own emotional health will suffer. If you genuinely can't find the time to DIY I think you will have to accept your yard owner's regime until Easter even though she mislead you about turnout which is unacceptable.
 

Bernster

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Glad you seem to have resolved things for now OP and hope you can move somewhere better soon.

I’m with the turnout crew! Mine doesn’t get as long out as I’d like, which is pretty consistent for the area, but he’s out every day apart from the odd flood and the snow. 7 hours in winter, longer in summer. My mare is out 24/7. I viewed some in west Essex and they did have pants turnout so a no go for me.
 

Cortez

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But we're also not suggesting that welfare was universally - or even generally - better when horses were worked harder and never turned out, I hope. In the evolutionary history of the horse, the period in which they were stabled and worked hard, and rarely allowed to interact naturally, has been very, very short. The time they've spent evolving to travel large distances slowly, while interacting naturally, is probably more relevant. The fact that we can't offer those sorts of distances is problematic, but supports more time in turnout, not less - with more acreage, and yes, for the majority of horses, as much work as is reasonably possible.

No, I'm not suggesting that everything was rosy in ye olden days, but I really don't think that horse welfare is optimal when horses are kept, as so many seem to be: overfed & overweight, on tiny postage stamp turnouts, minimal exercise, often with poor riding and training. Working horses were usually out up to 12 hours a day (most horses were pulling carriages or carts), 6 days a week, earned their feed and really needed their stable to rest.
 

ester

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I've kept horses in Essex for 20 years and I have never encountered a yard which didn't turnout at all over winter. Most of those years were spent quite near to the poster who claimed the local yards shut their fields all winter too - I know that he is wrong about that.

Yup I definitely don't know anyone on essex clay who keeps their horses turned out all year, oh no hang on 1, 2, 3....
For the most part it seems better than somerset levels below sea level clay :p but we manage there too.
 

conniegirl

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No, I'm not suggesting that everything was rosy in ye olden days, but I really don't think that horse welfare is optimal when horses are kept, as so many seem to be: overfed & overweight, on tiny postage stamp turnouts, minimal exercise, often with poor riding and training. Working horses were usually out up to 12 hours a day (most horses were pulling carriages or carts), 6 days a week, earned their feed and really needed their stable to rest.
And horses used to regularly drop dead in the street, so no it definitely wasn't better back then.
 

WandaMare

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I think we are all agreed that as much turnout as possible is best for horses. Its better for both their mental and physical health and its also an easier and more economical regime for most horse owners. But I don't think that means that as horse owners we are entitled to it! In our area if you move the muck heap you get an interrogation from both the council and the parish council so setting up new facilities or changing existing ones would come under scrutiny, meet with local opposition from people who don't like horse yards not to mention the cost. I'm not saying this would stop me having a go, its just that sometimes people don't realise whats involved. I didn't see any of this when I kept my horses at livery so I didn't understand why yards didn't just make changes that seemed so obvious to me lol. I think its likely to get harder too, rather than easier. So many of the bridleways and yards near me have closed down now, people have just given up because it seems to get harder and more expensive to do what you need to do. Round here you get quite nasty objections from neighbours if you try to increase horse facilities and sometimes landowners just don't want to start falling out with local people. Its probably a lot easier in more remote areas where people aren't peering over the fence every time you get any workmen in.
 

sportsmansB

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It does sound like your relationship with your YO has turned very sour OP
It could be that after last winter when turnout was reduced they noticed an improvement in the summer paddocks and the YO is trying to replicate this but without being open about it? Or maybe not that many liveries complained last year and she is hoping to get away with it again?
Turning out horses in high winds who might hoon about would obviously have a risk of injury (your issue) but could also churn up the fields and / or damage fencing (her issue) - maybe she is trying to not admit that is her priority, given that initially all year turnout was offered so she would rather make it about potential injury...

Possibly since she knows you are leaving she is just happy to hurry that process along, and get someone else in who will agree to less turnout, if thats what she wants to offer now. I would be away if I were you, lights or not - theres only a couple of weeks until it will be light enough to ride after work.
 

JFTDWS

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No, I'm not suggesting that everything was rosy in ye olden days, but I really don't think that horse welfare is optimal when horses are kept, as so many seem to be: overfed & overweight, on tiny postage stamp turnouts, minimal exercise, often with poor riding and training. Working horses were usually out up to 12 hours a day (most horses were pulling carriages or carts), 6 days a week, earned their feed and really needed their stable to rest.

I entirely agree with you on that score - postage stamp paddocks are an abomination with minimal real work.
 

Goldenstar

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Really unless you have huge undulating fields all horses need to work to be in optimum health.
In most situations horses need turnout and work .
The hideous small paddocks that are common now don’t provide exercise and I agree they are contributing to the fact that loads of people now seem to think a horse who is a healthy weight is one step off being a rescue case that and the add lib forage thing where people have lost track of the fact that for many many horses you need to manage forage consumption in a healthy way not just shovel the stuff down the horses 24/7 .
Fat fat fat horses they are very where sadly atm two of them are mine .
 

GTRJazz

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I've kept horses in Essex for 20 years and I have never encountered a yard which didn't turnout at all over winter. Most of those years were spent quite near to the poster who claimed the local yards shut their fields all winter too - I know that he is wrong about that.

Greentrees and South Hall farm both kept their horses in for that long
 

Darlabean

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Even worse for those stood in stables all week, at least those out, postage size stamp or not, are getting some fresh air, not breathing in dust and ammonia and moving more than a stiff stabled horse would! If a horse is stabled all week, for half a year that’s of greater concern, surely?
 

Cortez

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Even worse for those stood in stables all week, at least those out, postage size stamp or not, are getting some fresh air, not breathing in dust and ammonia and moving more than a stiff stabled horse would! If a horse is stabled all week, for half a year that’s of greater concern, surely?

Only if the stabled horses are not being properly exercised. The horses out in the little mini paddocks are not getting enough exercise unless they are also being worked daily.
 
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