Turning a stallion out with a mare for covering - advice

[pootleperkin]

Hi all,

I have a half share in a stallion. In the spring, his other owner wants to put her mare in foal to him and we are contemplating turning him out with her.

We are worried that he (more than she, as he is a Luso and the mare a leg at each corner, bossy coloured) will get hurt on first introduction, so was just wondering if the collective brain has any advice, stretching from don't do it, to useful tips on how to make it all go smoothly.

He has served in hand many times and is thought of as a pleasant boy when doing so (very lovely temperament) but has never been turned out with other horses before. He lives in his own field and can chat to my two over the wall (with a lane in between), so is used to talking to other horses.

He is hacked out regularly with geldings (very calm) and occasionally mares (less so, but still fine).

His other owner wants to breed a foal to keep, to ride and drive.

As I said, advice appreciated

 

[SusieT]

Don't do it! The risk to your investment in this lad is really going to be significant. Ther isk to the mare is also going to be high. What is the point in doing this? Just cover in hand and reduce the risks. What if she kicks him and breaks his leg?

 

[classicalfan]

If the mare is in season and fancies him then it will be fine. If they can be stabled next to each other or have a safe means of introduction prior to turn out then you can assess whether she will be receptive to him or not and thus lessen the chance of injury.

 

[marmalade76]

If he covers in hand fine, what's the point? Why risk it?

 

[pootleperkin]

The thought behind it was to be able to leave them together for some considerable time (spring/summer) and give him some company. We have always thought it was a shame that he is on his own, and know of some folk that run stallions with mares, hence were considering it.

It might be naive, but that was why I was asking!

We were thinking of having him in a small paddock next to her for a while to see how they reacted with each other, but yes, obviously our worry was broken legs etc....would not be good.

 

[brucethegypsycob]

unless you are very sure about the temprement of both horses dont do it. if you do leave your stallion running out with mares be aware that they (the stallion) can loose weight/condition fairly quickly.

 

[SusieT]

In t hat case, I would probably introduce them like any other horse, ideally pre-season though so hormones aren't a factor. Assuming both are good temperment, keep the shoes off etc.

 

[haras]

Maybe cover her in hand first so that you know how she reacts to him before turning them out?

Another thought though... If he is quiet with the geldings, can you introduce one as a permanent companion for him? I know of several stallions who run with geldings quite happilly.

 

[pootleperkin]

Hi Haras,

Unfortunately we don't have a spare gelding, as we think he would turn out with one. Also, pressure on land means we don't want to get another horse in just as a companion.

TBH, he is pretty happy (had lived in all of his life before he came to us and he loves grass, running and being able to speak to our two!), but we just thought it might be a good way to kill two birds.

Wil consider some more.

 

[TuscanBunnyGirl]

Try putting faeces from one another in their paddocks and see how they react to that. It can often help with introductions.

 

[emlybob]

I too am not convinced it's worth the risk. I do know stallions who have run with mares but they have done this all their lives, they live permanently in the herd, even with foals in with them

However if it is really only a matter of giving him company then i two advise to cover in hand. Some stallions get very bashed about and as already said can lose a lot of weight.

To me its just not worth the risk

 

[angrovestud]

I have run my sports horse stallion out with two mares to help him recover from no turnout it was advised by my old vet, he will soon get out of the way of any kicks and I would think now is a great time for them to get to know each other if i were doing it again I would have a field divided by electric fence him one side with the fence on and introduce her to her side with fence on. they wont like getting a belt so should keep away from the tape use good wide tape and two three strands.
let him talk to her after a few hours you should be able to take fence down quickly and let them run together now is a great time to introduce as its not spring when hormones drive brain! he should be able to have a lovely life with wife but a word of warning stallions do not like having wives removed and he will pine if she goes so for his happiness you need to think about this if you ride him he may resent leaving her. good luck with your stallion and mare and if i can be any further help please pm me
my stallion ran out for 7 months but was brought in every night make rules and stick to them other wise they can get cross

 

[Enfys]

My stallion is very much a workman, he's not a showhorse so a few battle scars are neither here nor there...he doesn't think so either. He doesn't always have company, he is a gentleman at all times and always chats a lady up first, if she is firm enough with her "Not if you were the last man standing" response then he simply shrugs and goes back to his beer at the bar as it were.

Some mares simply refuse to be covered in hand - I have one of those myself. She stays with him for a couple of months, they spend about three days bonking like rabbits then the rest of the time they are just a pair of friends. He has one girlfiend who has come back twice, she is such a tart, won't even look at him in hand, turn them out and within seconds she's begging. When her owner last came to collect her we almost had hysterics, that darn mare BACKED underneath poor Zeus for one last session! He loves her, they start yelling before she is off the trailer, but I think the dear boy is glad of the rest when she leaves

During the winter he usually has a barren mare or some yearling colts in with him.
Hope and Glory had the pleasure of his company last year.

 

[EstherYoung]

Those are beautiful pics, Enfys. As things should be.

We used to run the pony stallions with herds. If introducing a new mare, we'd turn her out next door to tease her first, then once she was in season they'd do the deed in hand, and then they'd go out together straight afterwards. It was the boss mares in the various herds who were more of a problem with new mares than the stallions.

However, these were stallions who had been brought up with other horses from the off. They understood horse body language and so could keep themselves out of trouble. They also got turned out together in small batchelor groups over the winter. For all that yard's faults, the ponies had a pretty nice life and I would rather come back as one of them than one of these fully stabled unsocialised 'competition horses'.

However, our situation was entirely different to a large stallion who has no clue as to equine interaction. You may have missed the boat if you wanted him socialising. I know when we acquired Spud he was a 7yo ex serving stallion with no clue - no way could we have just stuck him out with mares, he'd have got shredded. Once he'd had the snip we put him out with a very dominant aged TB gelding, who calmly and patiently and very very clearly taught him in no uncertain terms where the boundaries of decent civilised eqiuine society lay. Spud still has no clue but he does at least understand 'feck off' when another horse says it. Joe taught him that.

 

[marmalade76]

The thought behind it was to be able to leave them together for some considerable time (spring/summer) and give him some company. We have always thought it was a shame that he is on his own, and know of some folk that run stallions with mares, hence were considering it.

It might be naive, but that was why I was asking!

Awww!

I do think that a lot of stallions have very sad and lonely lives, stabled alone, turned out alone, etc, and some don't even get to cover real mares and therefore must have no physical contact with other horses at all Good on you for putting his contentment first!

 

[pootleperkin]

Thanks for all your replies.

My worry would be the same as yours Esther, that as he is now 13 and has never been turned out with another horse, would he just not be able to settle as too excited by it all? He certainly can be a bit of an edjit - we tried to turn him out in a new field this summer, and despite having him in a small section, he just ran and ran and ran....not so good for his weight!

The bottom line is we don't want to risk him getting hurt, and at present he has a nice enough life (certainly better than before), so I guess will take more advice and continue to mull it all over.

Looking at Enfys' lovely photos though, it would be great to let him live with other hosses. One option we could try is borrowing a shetland gelding and seeing how he goes with him......he certainly isn't a nasty stallion, so whoever was in with him would only have to fear being 'loved' too much!

 

[Kaycee]

I can understand your concerns and the replies of others saying don’t do it, however, this is my experience with my two boys:

A homebred Spanish stallion who was always turned out with geldings until 5 years old when we turned him out with his first mare. He’s run with his mares and foals ever since, including visiting mares and he’s nearly 20 years old. He’s not stupid and if a mare says no he backs off totally, and politely and cautiously asks her again a while later. He’s an extremely laid back stallion that we believe is down to his lifestyle.

The other was an older imported (and unused at the time) Spanish stallion used to being mainly stabled with a little turn out (alone). He immediately settled when we turned him out with a mare (to breed from and for company). He then happily covered others in hand and loose with no problems. Incidentally, he put weight on when turned out with mares, probably because he was no longer stressed at being alone.

I know of stallions that have been injured when covering in hand (and their handlers!) and we are talking experienced studs.

I agree with another poster, if you are at all concerned then cover her in hand and then turn them out together afterwards.

Personally I would rather not keep a stallion if it meant a life of isolation from other equine company, but everyone has their own opinions regarding this and I respect that.

Stallions are highly sociable, given the chance, and I applaud you for thinking of his well being and considering this option for him.

 

[pootleperkin]

Hi Kaycee,

your second boy sounds just like ours - he was also imported, and as discussed, used to be in and now has grazing (24/7 at present as so mild).

I would like to think ours would act like yours; in truth I'm more concerned about the mare, as she can be feisty. However, today she has just been consigned to weight watchers (wasn't getting fit despite ride and drive work, loads of tests done and the verdict is she is just too overweight), so perhaps wait until she is weakened by hunger (lol, not really!) until we turn out together! Also slightly concerned he/she would become too clingy to each other when taking one or other out of field. I guess if push came to shove, he could just be taken away again - his field at present is at other end of village and he doesn't 'socialise' (i.e. ever see ) with the mare.

 

[merrypath]

You are right to worry more about the stallion than the mare. A mare with a foal at side could kill or maim the stallion before you can stop it. We tried. The mare was in standing heat and had been next to the stallion and she still tried to kill the stallion and nearly killed her own foal as well. We were nearly run down too as she was chasing him and he was trying to get us to save him...very frightening. He was terrified. She was murderous. Another mare foaled with him and they did fine together. I would not risk a stallion or foal. If she did not have a foal at side that would be another thing. We do run stallions with mares and this particulare stallion allows himself and his mares to come and go from his herd and allows other bands of mares in adjacent pastures and even allowed another stallion and his band in a near pasture his second year. His first years he was managing the mares a lot and was very thin. the second year he was cool and got an early band and a late band.
Not all stallions allow this. Be careful. PatO

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

There is nothing wrong with it as long as you take precautions. After all horse do run free in the wild. My geldings dad runs free with the mares he has 100% success rate .

You need to make sure of the mares temperament , if she is a dominant mare you would need back hoof boots on

I would take your time and let them see each other with safety barrier a few times before you actually let them run free