Turning out a laminitic on frosty grass

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Cadburys_addict

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my boy has had lami previously and after his last bout, my vet advised that he could not go out on frosty days (due to the sugar levels when the grass defrosts (normally sunny after a frost), which so far has been fine - it has been the odd day here and there....however now cos of this persistent very cold weather he has been stuck in his stable since last Wednesday with no end in sight :(

Is anyone else in the same boat? Do you turn out anyway? Has anyone elses Vet advised similar?

I am stuck between a rock and a hard place here as I do not want a rebout of lami and trying to give my horse a little bit of freedom....he would only be out for about 5 hours and gets hay....I have called my Vet to discuss and see what they say but i just wanted to see if anyone else was in the same boat as me....
 
I think the jury is out on frosty grass+sunny mornings and I wouldn't take the risk.

I do turn out on frosty mornings just to muck out and he doesn't eat it anyway. Why don't you hang a haynet if you must turnout - most horses would choose hay over frozen grass anyday.

(Whoops, just read you do give hay...)

I turn out with hay if I have to.
 
Mine had his first bout in the summer, I'm not risking it he stays in with the exception of an hour while I muck out. I'm paranoid as I've had to put him on wrapped hay because I can't soak my hay this weather and I worry about the dust too. I have had lots of problems with him this year and really don't want to take any chances.
 
My horse has had lami and is also EPSM. So sugar and starch are off the menu.

Sugar builds up in the leaves of grass during cold spells. It's not just about photosynthesis during the sunny spells but also that the sugar is not taken out of the leaves for storage elsewhere - so the leaves get a build up of sugar.

So for my lami horse, because exercise is critical for EPSM I do turn her out, but for the morning only.

We are not allowed to put hay in the field (which I would recommend if you can), so I feed her before turn out and let her eat a wedge of hay, so she isn't too hungry and therefore not tempted to stuff herself.

Being barefoot we can monitor her every day and if there is any footiness she has to stay in for a day or two. This manages both the lami and the EPSM quite well (so far touch wood etc).
 
its so hard to know what to do really - I also normally soak my hay as he is sensitive to dust but its just impossible in this weather...

I just worry he is a big horse with slight athritis in his back leg and although I am doing something with him every night to get him moving, I worry that he isnt getting the interaction with other horses and when he does eventually go out he will go ballistic and I worry he will injure himself!

god I hate having a horse that has had lami....it is the worst thing in the world!

I have been so cautious and normally if its a few days here and there its not too bad but I have no idea when its going to warm up.......thanks for your thoughts - makes me feel a little better that I am not the only one with lami dilemmas!!
 
Can't you put a grazing mask on? Some are not too expensive and at least it would get the horse out for some exercise.
 
he does wear a grazing muzzle normally but he would still be eating the frosty grass (albeit not as much) which my vet has said no to......but I will ask the question! I think if he did get any turnout it would literally be for 30mins or so whilst I mucked out with hay.....unfortunately I cant even turn him out in the arena with hay as its not fenced in on all sides.....
 
I'm in a similar situation except I cant keep my girl in as she suffers colic from the stress of being stabled. She lives out 24/7 and touch wood for the last 2 years i havent had a problem. During the summer she is either on restricted grazing or muzzled and in the winter she gets given hay. I am quite lucky that where her winter field has been rested since last March and hasnt been topped, the grass is long and stalky like hay, so def no goodness in that.
 
Speak to your vet, but when my laminitis prone pony was stabled at night, I made sure that he had a good feed before going out, plus there was hay in the field. Didn't have any problems. Now he's out twenty-four/seven we haven't had a problem either.

From what I have read, the sugars will stay low down in the grass, so better longer grass than shorter if possible (that's what Little Lad is on).
 
My laminitic/cushingoid pony is out 24/7 so can't really avoid frosty grass. I just make sure she has plenty of hay , she does tend to choose the hay over the grass when it has been a heavy frost.
 
You really need to determine what is causing the laminitis so that you can manage your horse accordingly. Also keep the weight of your horse down at all times so that the ribs/haunches are showing as this will normally reduce the chance of laminitis. Also depends on the type of grass. If it is old traditional pasture grass then there is much less chance of frosted weather causing high fructan levels in the grass or at other times. The issue with laminitis is that it can be caused by so many different things and at the end of the day you know your horse so do what best suits you.
 
yea everyone horse's situation with regards to lami is different - i think mine is more down to his gut function but that could be wrong! I am very cautious with his feed level and at the moment he is slim - actually the best he has looked for a long while.....:)

There is so much research being done on lami and that changes all the time so the issue with turnout is a real dilemma....the pasture he is on is not too rich and I manage his t/o with a muzzle normally during spring etc

I am simply curious to know what other people think as I feel that everyone on my yard thinks I am OTT with managing my horses Lami risk! rather be too safe then not enough! So thanks to everyone who has replied!
 
I know how you're feeling, its a nightmare and you just can't let your guard down.

My mare had lami earlier this year and I've been paranoid about this frost. I give her 1 scoop of Happy Hoof and 5lbs of soaked hay then I've been turning her out muzzled for about 3-4hours depending on the day. I rang my vet on Friday and he said that my routine sounded fine as long as she's okay with it.

The water at the yard is frozen and I just can't risk giving her un-soaked hay, so I'm bringing it home to soak. I'm going to be grey very shortly with all this worry.
 
It is a nightmare isnt it! I'm just reintroducing my mare to the wonders of grazing after her bad bout of laminitis. I had to wait until 11:30 this morning before turning her out to avoid the frost. I wonder if it really is as bad for them as they say.
 
Lotty said:
I'm going to be grey very shortly with all this worry.
Click to expand...

Me too! There doesn't seem a time of year that we don't need to worry.

My horse has to be turned out early because of my working hours, but I put mountains of hay as fortunately she's not keen on grass when it's frosty and will eat the hay.

I worry constantly, but know she'd hate to be stabled and can see no way around it.

I have actually become scared of grass.
 
eek now its started to snow! dont think any of the horses will now be going out if the snow gets any worse....at least my boy will have company!

Spoke to my vet and he didnt recommend him going out, not only cos of the frosty grass but also cos the ground is so hard that it may cause other issues (my boy has also had problems with his ligaments/tendon in his hind leg so do not want to have that flare up again :().....so its not just frost we are dealing with now grr!

Going to have to persist with my routine for the time being and hope that when I ride him he doesnt have a major bucking fit again and me doing a spectacular flying dismount like last year :eek:

I agree - I now hate grass!! Its such a stress the whole way through the year!!!!
 
I went to the Dodson and Horrell Laminitis Awareness day last year - and from what my old grey matter remembers, the whole fructans issue has been thrown out. Fructans don't cause laminitis all by themselves, its the accumulation of too many calories over a period of time that does it.

In brief, no horse can eat enough fructans in one go to cause laminitis - they tried to stuff some trial horses with loads of fructans in one go, and they could not induce laminitis. However they can be the last straw, so to speak.

In other words, if your horse is already storing too much fat and is close to being laminitic, turning out on frosty grass may well tip him over the edge. But if the horse is at a good weight, then he is not going to get lami in one day. So turning out with a generous amount of good hay is probably doing more harm than eating the frosty grass.

I would turn out without a rug, which ups the horse's metabolic rate, meaning he is then burning off the extra calories rather than storing them, as it's the fat storage that will trip the horse over the edge.

Edited to add: by horse at a GOOD weight, I mean slim!
 
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