Turnout in winter

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julie111

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Hi, just wondered what people's views were. We have two coblets, 13.1 and 14.0, we only have just over an acre of grazing so have fenced of an area measuring 80 foot by 18 foot and put stone chippings down along with a field shelter which has a new concrete floor and will be fitted out with rubber mats next week, this will be for the ponies to stay on while the field is so wet. They will have as much hay as they want in the shelter and will be ridden c.4 times a week. Would you say this will be ok for them? And is anyone else struggling with all this rain. thanks in advance for your thoughts.
 
Sounds ok to me! In a perfect world we'd have our horses out in dry grassy fields, but we don't have that world, so your set up sounds fine to me, and something I would be happy with. :)
 
As long as your horses are happy. Ofcourse alot of us would all like more land but there are hores are stabled most of the day over winter just to get perspective on this. I have an individual paddock on DIY and it is not an acre, she is a 14.1hh coblet and its more than enough grass for this type of horse. If your horses seem happy and are well cared for and fed plenty of forage i do not see the issue
 
No thats not enough land imo. should ideally be an acre per horse and you have eaten into your only acre by eighty foot .... if i haf two horses on that amount of land i would get livery for them both for part of the year to rest and maintain your land
 
I think the acre per horse rule is about the availability of grass really, so I would say that is the best way to manage your current set up as long as you have plenty of hay.

I'd prefer that to say 2 acres of ankle deep bog water and no shelter, or being stabled all winter to save the ground!
 
Achinghips said:
No thats not enough land imo. should ideally be an acre per horse and you have eaten into your only acre by eighty foot .... if i haf two horses on that amount of land i would get livery for them both for part of the year to rest and maintain your land
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The standard acre per horse (acre and a half, depends which book you go by) ratio is only if the land is supposed to sustain an animal by grazing. I keep some of my horses in acre paddocks and I certainly don't send them off to livery for part of the year so I can rest and maintain the paddocks. If the horses are off the remainder of the land then is it not, in fact, being rested?

I would far rather keep horses on a dry section as mentioned than in a larger space that is an absolute morass and does them/or the land no favours at all.

If the horses in question are being exercised then the space they have is fine. 18' is quite narrow but wide enough for horses to turn around in, afterall lots of people now favour using a variation of the track system and I bet 18' would be quite wide by their standards. It is surprising how little horses move around by choice if they do not have to find forage a point that several people on here have mentioned.
 
Sounds fine so long as the coblets get on well together as limited space. I have kept 2 ponies successfully full time on 1.5 acres for several years. The land is level and neither very wet or light. The field is long and thin, approx 25m wide. I divided it into 6 small paddocks, using 2 for winter and the rest for summer. With careful management this is enough, but i feed hay Nov-March as not enough grass for winter keep. I don't have a surface or chippings but field drains ok except very soggy this week. We have field shelter but no stable and ponies are happy and healthy. My vet, farrier and horse dentist all comment on how fit and well they are. Of course I'd love 10 acres but no chance!
 
Another who'd much rather see neds kept like that than stood in mud or kept in for days on end! As someone else mentioned, as long as they get along then this would be fine. I used to have turnout pens of about the same size (individual) & they were invaluable in wet weather & ment that instead of trashing the field (2 acres of watermeadow) they had lovely grazing the rest of the year when the weather was good.
 
No idea why people are obsessed with keeping their horses out ankle deep in mud.

Mine are kept in a cattle shed with a small corral over winter, if its dry they go out, but recently have been in

Hardy breeds are better on limited grazing as otherwise can lead to laminitis
 
I would also look to rent more land as an acre between 2 is not enough year round. I used to have free access to three quarters of an acre with a field shelter and great ground but also did diy livery for large parts of the year.

You can keep horses in less than ideal circumstances, I have, but the closer you can get to the ideal the happier they and you will be.
 
Achinghips said:
No thats not enough land imo. should ideally be an acre per horse and you have eaten into your only acre by eighty foot .... if i haf two horses on that amount of land i would get livery for them both for part of the year to rest and maintain your land
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The only reason we say an acre per horse is so they have enough grazing. They do not actually need that amount of space per horse. If an owner is prepared to feed plenty of hay or haylage, then there is no reason why they need an acre per horse. If they want them out 24/7 all year round on the grass, on the other hand, then I would say they would need two to three acres per horse.

The OP's ponies are ponies, not horses, and so need less space. I think the set up sounds great. Much better than horses standing knee deep in mud. I find that horses prefer good quality forage to grass at this time of year.
 
The only thing that would concern me is on that amount of land, they don't get much exercise, so for two good doers I would be looking for a way of exercising more.
 
I have a 16h and a 17h ISH out on a hardcore turnout area all winter. I don't know what it is in feet, but its about 30mx10m in an L shape. We put four haylage nets up for them. They do wander a lot between nets. It works very well for them, they are out in the fresh air all day, can see everything that is going on, move around a lot, and don't get mudrash! They go out in the big field once or twice a week, but they don't seem to have pent up energy - they don't charge around when out, they just roll for England and eat. They are MUCH happier than our previous system of them being in most of the time with an hour or two's turnout daily.
 
I think it is much better than keeping horses in a relatively little box all winter or standing in mud if there is no escape from it. There is a tendancy to get obsessed with having enough grass for our horses and if there isn't, the alternative is usually keeping them in the little box. Personally I would prefer my horse to have a space to roam around in even if there was very little or no grass, as long as it is safe with hay/haylage, water and shelter provided, with the forage spread around to encourage movement. So many times I have been on livery yards where I have been sternly told, 'If you put your horse out every day in the winter, there will be no grass for them in the summer!' so they will have to stay in the little box for hours on end. It might suit some but it fills me and my woolley native with dread!

I have a livery yard across the road from my house, but my horse is five miles away because of the all year turnout offered. Unfortunately the turnout is about to be restricted to alternate days in winter, meaing 40 hours in for my horse at a time and difficulties in giving him exercise and attention because of the distance and work committments.

The yard across the road offers daily turnout only whilst mucking out but if you are there you can leave them out longer, but at least they would get out every day regularly (summer turnout is 24/7). I have considered making a little corral at the back of my house, so I could bring him home too for a short time, and at least he would be in the fresh air, if I was offered a stable at this yard. I would have more time to spend with him as I wouldn't be spending time travelling in busy traffic (can take me up to 40 minutes at busy times, and about 20 coming back). Hope I don't hyjack the thread but opinions would be appreciated thanks.

When I bought my horse I was hoping to be able to keep him as naturally as possible, but it has been a nightmare with restricted turnout in my area, with hindsight, unfortunately I would have thought twice about buying a horse, but I have him now and want to do the best for him within the limits I have.
 
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Another problem I, and I'm sure many others, have discovered, is that if you try to discuss the turnout debate with some yard owners, you basically just get told, 'That's how it is, if you don't like it you can leave', and get spoken down to as a child, even if you are a mature adult, as they know they can usually easily replace you with someone else, saving themselves the bother of putting themselves out. Of course, there are exceptions, there are some lovely forward thinking YOs that do understand your concerns.
 
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I bet I'm not the only owner who has considered putting stables in the garden when a livery yard's promise of daily winter turnout didn't happen and the menage's were unusable, I thought they might as well have no turnout and be stabled at home instead of paying for grazing and facilities we could only use in dry weather.

Few years ago, my 3 were on a yard 8 miles away because yards nearer home didn't do winter turnout. When it snowed, we used to spend hours at the yard walking the horses in circles around the yard, not going home in case we couldn't get back again.
 
my 2 have 5 acres in winter, helps keep the ground decent. If I had less grazing for them I would do what you are doing OP. Sounds a reasonable enough arrangement to me. If they start bullying or squabbling over hay or feed they would be better separated into individual pens where they can touch and see each other but not kick and bite each other.
Yours sounds a far better arrangement than mud and poached paddocks.
 
This sounds like a very good idea, OP :)

Horses have a variety of needs, summed up by Brambell's Five Freedoms (should apply to all domestic and farm animals)

1. Freedom from Hunger and Thirst – by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour. You are providing this.

2. Freedom from Discomfort – by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area. You are providing this.

3. Freedom from Pain, Injury or Disease – by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment. You are providing this, and in addition, by allowing them to forage around outside, you are lessening the likelihood of them developing the problems that horses who live in during the winter tend to develop - RAO, breathing problems, stiffness in joints etc.

4. Freedom to Express Normal Behaviour - by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal’s own kind. Your set up is superior to stabling from this point of view, as they can move around with a companion, groom each other, roll, and if you provide different things to eat, they can forage rather than standing in one place eating from a hay net.

5. Freedom from Fear and Distress – by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering. By providing space to move away from things that frighten them, and by providing constant access to an equine companion, you are reducing the stress associated with individual stabling, so you win on this front too.

The key thing is that they have (a) a companion, (b) space to move around, (c) constant access to forage and water, (d) access to shelter and (e) somewhere to lie down and sleep in comfort.

People get hung up on providing grass, so think that an acre is not enough - and that's right, it's not enough space to provide grazing - but it is plenty of room to make sure the 5 Freedoms are catered for - and that's more than many livery yards do where horses are stabled individually all winter.
 
Thanks for your replies, would also like to add our ponies are the best of friends, they eat from the same haynet or hay bar and have plenty of room to lie down together in the field shelter. Their field is in a village so always plenty going on for them to watch and listen too, and have regular dog walkers who say hello to them over the gate. They certainly seem happy with this set up and so are we! Thanks again and you all have a Happy Xmas x
 
Jen_Cots said:
No idea why people are obsessed with keeping their horses out ankle deep in mud.

Mine are kept in a cattle shed with a small corral over winter, if its dry they go out, but recently have been in

Hardy breeds are better on limited grazing as otherwise can lead to laminitis
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^^^^ This.
 
Sounds like a sensible set up to me...better than having them wading through mud all winter and way into the spring whilst everything recovers. I am going to be moving my horse to a new set up on our own land next year. We have an acre and a half paddock that I will be putting a stable and hay store onto. So that will take out some of the land also.
I will be doing the opposite to you in that the area around and next to the stable is currently overgrown hardcore with some grassy areas. I plan to put my lad in this area over the summer and feed mainly hay and then let him have the roughly an acre or so over the winter. But this is due to him having laminitis in the past so will work better for me to keep him off the grass in summer.
 
I think it sounds a very sensible and well-thought out compromise - wish I had access to similar for my mare who can't go out on grass when it's frosty. Confined to stable/horsewalker and daily exercise much of the winter - it would be nice to have a small space to mooch around in without chewing up land.
 
OP it sounds very similar to our set up in winter, and I have a maximum of 12 horses on 70 acres, so stuff the books and the ratios, if your land can't take it then you have to compromise :).

Thankfully my liveries understand that we live in the wettest county in the UK and winter turn out (or even spring and autumn turnout on occasions) is not always possible - whatever the majority of HHOers may decree ;).
 
Rowreach said:
OP it sounds very similar to our set up in winter, and I have a maximum of 12 horses on 70 acres, so stuff the books and the ratios, if your land can't take it then you have to compromise :).

Thankfully my liveries understand that we live in the wettest county in the UK and winter turn out (or even spring and autumn turnout on occasions) is not always possible - whatever the majority of HHOers may decree ;).
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^^^^^^^^^^^^
good post. I agree.
 
Of course it's fine. Ad-lib hay, small turnout area and shelter.... I see no problem.

Am another for not getting people being happier seeing them ankle deep in mud waiting at gates!


I've just bought my lot in for winter now as the grass has nothing in it now. To me, I'd rather keep them in a barn loose, on adlib haylage, out of the wind to stop wasting effort [and money] into losing energy keeping warm and going out for a little while each day in a new small stripped off paddock outside also. Works for me.
 
I have a very similar setup for my 15.3hh TB and 13.2hh companion pony. My TB is a box walker and weaver and in a stable he will not keep weight on, the last year i had him stabled he finished the winter looking like a hatrack no matter what feed i pumped into him and adlib haylage, as he just stressed it off. On the set up i have, he hardly ever shows these vices, This setup has been wonderful, i have two healthy and happy ponios this year, no fights over food as its available all the time, they arent even on hard feed and they have put on weight! :D

Mine share a shelter which is deeply bedded down with straw and have a large rubber matted yard area outside roughly 30' square with shelter taking up one corner. They are dry, have shelter, have as much haylage as they can eat but cant gorge as i have made them a haylage slowfeeder attached to the outside of the shelter along one side, to prevent them from pulling the whole lot on the floor. They have free access to a trash paddock, which is now just mud, but they can have a hoon around and a roll if they choose to, but iv found they prefer to stay where there isnt any mud, recently build a temp round pen outside for when i cant get them on the roads due to the ice, so i can still exersise them.

Wouldnt go back to stabling now, and as my field will not support summer and winter grazing without trashing the whole lot, this is the way i will continue to keep them every winter. Well next year the trash paddock will be much bigger and woodchipped so it isnt just a mudbath but thats the only thing il add :)
 
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