Turnout issues..how can we nicely drill it into YO's head?!

[doris2008]

I moved to a new yard in October. YO has just taken on the lease and we were all new liveries. It was my main condition of coming that we had daily turnout (unless a very good reason). YO was fine with this and said if she was ever unsure whether to put him out she would text me first.
Alas this has never been the case! At the moment they are in more often than not. I appreciate we've had some rubbishy weather recently, but the track has been passable and the fields are fine once they are out.
She keeps her horses in a very different way. They live in, and rarely have turnout.
The problem is, she is a fab YO in every other way, I trust her implicitly with my horse, and she'll always help out where needed. Other liveries are great and I really feel like we belong there. Horse has settled amazingly well - more than he ever did at last yard of 6 years.
The thing is, all the other liveries feel the same, they all want their horses out wherever physically possible, come rain or shine, or snow!
But she is so nice we seem unable to get our point across, short of all ganging up together and sitting her down! We are not all often at the yard together and I dont feel we can do that without offending her. In all other respects she's great.
I have a good relationship with her and dont want to jeopardise it, but dont want to be blunt with her. Or are we just going to have to? At the end of the day I guess we pay for that as part of the service and they should be able to go out unless we say not? Or is it her decision??

Mince pies guys..not sure there is any other answer short of being very straight to the point, but wondered whether anyone else had handled something similar?

 

[touchstone]

I think the issue can be raised politely without falling out over it, perhaps sugggesting a monthly meeting where concerns/ideas can be raised might be worth doing to keep the lines of communiation open, people who can't attend could be given the information at a later date

I think I'd politely ask why your horse hasn't been turned out, the YO mght have a very valid reason that you aren't aware of, if not, then asking nicely never did any harm but if your horse is settled and happy then I wouldn't worry too much, the weather is exceptional at the moment and it might just be a temporary thing.

 

[Natch]

How about inviting her over for mince pies over the festive period - or arranging a yard outing to the local pub for a pint to celebrate christmas - and gently mentioning it then?

As long as she isn't a psycho, there shouldn't be any reason why she would take offence to you politely, and even friendly-ey (not sure of correct word there ) discussing the issue. Don't go in all guns blazing, don't speak for others unless they are present and I see no reason why it shouldn't work out fine It may be that she is worried about them slipping and getting hurt in the snow, and you blaming, and even sueing her for it. She might have a lower threshold for what is acceptable weather to turn out in, or your horse may have indicated to her that he wasn't chuffed going out and she thinks she is being kind. She might just not understand, or remember, that you don't feel like that and you have a strong preference for your horse to be out come what may. Until you have a conversation with her, you won't know.

 

[doris2008]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one have tried on several occasions to make it clear that I am happy for him to be out. She knows he gets stressy being in, and tucks up and goes off his food. He actually handled the last 2 weeks in better than expected ie he wasn't trying to eat me in rage, but I do feel like I am letting him down!
I am not confrontational at all, and part of me says let it go, it'll be summer soon, just to avoid annoying her!
God, I think I need to get a grip and just talk to her plainly about it! I know the other liveries feel the same, and if we all mention it nicely, maybe she will eventually get the message!

 

[T-Bag]

all you can do is to be informed when and why he isn't going out everyday, or every morning send her a text saying please make sure he is turned out.

 

[cobgirlie]

Don't go in saying 'we've all been talking' or anything that sounds like all the liveries have been bitching or chatting behind her back but just talk to her from your point of view. Otherwise she'll get her back up straight away thinking you've all been complaining and moaning about her.

Explain that you personally would rather more turn out for your horse because he's unhappy inside and you understand the need to protect the fields but would it be possible for you to turn out more. Let the other liveries speak for themselves, often you find if you speak on their behalf they'll say something different if confronted by the YO and it just ends up you looking like a 'trouble' maker (even though I absolutely 100% agree you are right your horse should be getting turnout if it was agreed).

 

[Bethie]

If you let it go then it will become the norm and much harder to effect any change later on. You are the client, she is your supplier of services, sounds like you have a good relationship with her so no need to make a fuss, just tell her that you moved there for daily turnout, as agreed when you moved there/entered into the contract with her and you expect her to put your horse out every day. She isn't doing you a favour this is a business relationship!

 

[Samantha008]

Whatever you do you wont be happy if your horse isnt happy!! S dont just leave it!! At the end of the day, youre paying this lady to keep your horse there, if there were danger issues then it would be different but everyone looks after their horses differently and if it was me, id just try and be very polite and smiley and just say your horse really hates being in and if its ok please please can you turn him out a bit more!!! Once one of you speaks to her it will be easier for you all to follow!!!

 

[Persephone]

Perhaps instead of saying you are happy for him to go out, you should say you WANT him to go out?

It's not down to interpretation then.

 

[doris2008]

Thanks guys, I did text her this morning asking specifically for him to go out as they didnt go out yesterday, despite the weather being the same as sunday when they went out all day! I haven't heard back, so will find out this eve when I go up.
I just feel like I am interrogating her all the time asking why why why! I dont want her to think I am a whinge bag but I have to put my horse first. Right..I am going to speak to her about it tonight. It will definatley be nicely nicely as I'm not good at stamping my feet!

 

[cobgirlie]

Perhaps instead of saying you are happy for him to go out, you should say you WANT him to go out?

It's not down to interpretation then.

Lol!! I agree with this!!! On friday the whole yard were unable to get to their horses so I rang the OH and said for her to help herself to some of my haybales to throw to the field horses because they are easier to handle than the big bale haylage. Got there on Saturday to find she'd used 6 bales for ALL the horses on the yard!!! I don't mind cos I'll get paid for it but it might leave my boys short...but it's my fault for not specifying I meant just use it for the horses turned out with mine not the whole yard!! Lol!!

 

[jnb]

Did you get anything in your contract about turn out? If not there isn't really much you can do............at the end of the day it's her yard and if she doesn't want horses out for whatever reason she can insist they stay in (whether that is reasonable or not!).
You have to abide by her rules as she is the owner. However if you have a contract that promises turnout 365 days a year and you're not getting it then either insist, or leave.

 

[doris2008]

Did you get anything in your contract about turn out? If not there isn't really much you can do............at the end of the day it's her yard and if she doesn't want horses out for whatever reason she can insist they stay in (whether that is reasonable or not!).
You have to abide by her rules as she is the owner. However if you have a contract that promises turnout 365 days a year and you're not getting it then either insist, or leave.

Nope says nothing in contract about turnout.
I am hoping she is more reasonable than that! If not then I, and probably everyone else will be finding elsewhere to keep our horses.

 

[Steorra]

Okay, my mother always taught me that when approaching a tricky subject you start with a positive comment, then say what your problem is and how they can remedy it, then finish on a positive note. So in this situation I would:

Thank her for looking after my horse through the harsh weather and let her know I feel reassured that she is taking good care of him.

Mention that I've noticed he isn't going out every day. Say that for the sake of his health and well being, my horse is the sort that needs some freedom every day. Aren't horses daft? Rather be out in the snow than tucked up safe and warm. But really he is much happier outside, whatever the weather.

So. Will you be able to turn him out tomorrow?

Then I would thank her, and say how grateful I am to be at a yard where I know I can approach the owner for help.

Then the next day I'd greet her cheerily and say 'So, was my boy good to turn out today?' To make it clear I actually expect him to have been out.

 

[Caz89]

At the end of the day you are paying her and it is your horse.... if you want him out then tell her he is to go out... no "can he please" .etc. you are paying and she should be providing you with the service you want. Obviously don't be rude about it but don't be walked all over. If she gets funny then just say that if you had known from the begining he couldn't be turned out daily you wouldn't have been able to keep him there. People may say this is the wrong way to go about it but every single yard I have been at I have let the yard owner kind of take control and I have just been walked all over maybe not intentionally but from just letting my worries slip.

 

[Brandy]

Agree with starting with the positive comments - you are really happy with the yard, the set up and her as a YO, but that you came to the yard on the condition that horses were turned out daily, and you have obviosuly noticed that this isn't happening. You would like him to go out daily and feel that some of the others are feeling the same. Maybe she should speak to them?

(then maybe suggest they speak to her too.....)

 

[Ebbo]

Unless you have a contract stating that all year turnout is provided, you don't have the power to insist on the turnout. It is the YO's land, and she may be thinking about the safety aspects of turning the horses out on the snow - if she turns your horse out, and whilst leading it to the field it falls over and breaks a leg, who's fault will that be? The YO's I bet.

If you don't like it, leave. Circumstances change - just because the fields look 'okay', the YO might want to save the fields for when the snow has gone and the temperatures pick up a bit. Or she might not want a court case when a horse falls over on her land due to the turnout and breaks his leg. There are millions of scenarios....

 

[CBFan]

Okay, my mother always taught me that when approaching a tricky subject you start with a positive comment, then say what your problem is and how they can remedy it, then finish on a positive note. So in this situation I would:

Thank her for looking after my horse through the harsh weather and let her know I feel reassured that she is taking good care of him.

Mention that I've noticed he isn't going out every day. Say that for the sake of his health and well being, my horse is the sort that needs some freedom every day. Aren't horses daft? Rather be out in the snow than tucked up safe and warm. But really he is much happier outside, whatever the weather.

So. Will you be able to turn him out tomorrow?

Then I would thank her, and say how grateful I am to be at a yard where I know I can approach the owner for help.

Then the next day I'd greet her cheerily and say 'So, was my boy good to turn out today?' To make it clear I actually expect him to have been out.

^^^ this! couldn't have put it better myself!

or next time you see her say something cheerily like 'When you have a mo, could I have a word / pick your brains a mo?' almost like you're asking for her help rather than having a go... then say something like... 'Looks like this weather's going to be a reoccuring situation... Any chance we could work out a way of getting the horses out on a daily basis in the long run?' she may be worried about leading horses across frozen yards etc but perhaps you could offer to help clear the snow before it becomes solid ice and a real danger? It amazes me the number of people that let snow become sheet ice... it doesn't take 5 minutes to clear pathways when it's fresh on the ground... especially with more than one person doing it! she may have genuine concerns but if you can help her with solutions she should take it fairly well... As for haying in the field... really that is up to her but as long as the horses get a leg stretch a few hours with no hay won't do them too much harm...Just make sure there is plenty for him to eat when he comes in...

 

[littleme]

Unless you have a contract stating that all year turnout is provided, you don't have the power to insist on the turnout. It is the YO's land, and she may be thinking about the safety aspects of turning the horses out on the snow - if she turns your horse out, and whilst leading it to the field it falls over and breaks a leg, who's fault will that be? The YO's I bet.

If you don't like it, leave. Circumstances change - just because the fields look 'okay', the YO might want to save the fields for when the snow has gone and the temperatures pick up a bit. Or she might not want a court case when a horse falls over on her land due to the turnout and breaks his leg. There are millions of scenarios....

Agree completly.

I walked through one of our fields (havn't been turning out other than in arena) yesterday and nearly broke my leg falling over, whilst it looked fine where footprints have frozen it is extremely rutted - there is absoloutely no way you could turn out in them despite their tame appearance!

 

[diggerbez]

i would just text in the morning and say "please can you turn X out- in blue rug, thanks"
or something like that- its then not asking her to make a decision and its showing clearly what you want- i would have thought that if she's a normal human if she then didn't turn out she'd text/call back and say "sorry he's not gone out because...."
that way you avoid confrontation but horse still gets to play out

 

[Pedantic]

How about a laminated sign on your stable door, I AM A HORSE, PLEASE TURN ME OUT I HATE BEING IN

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I'm a YO (small, DIY only) so can identify with the YO in question as turnout often needs to be restricted in winter time.

Here horses are out by day, in by night, which helps a lot.

However, this is a strictly DIY yard where I don't handle the horses at all (only in the event of emergency would I do so), and everyone signs to this effect.

BUT, in this weather, I'm not at all sure I'd be happy leading someone elses horse out to turn-out. All you need is to slip and/or horsey be a bit scatty, and you've got a problem, then I bet the owner would be on the YO's case like a ton of bricks suing the pants off them!! This is what happens and you can't blame the YO for being cautious.

When my boy was at working livery at equestrian college last year, he was lucky to get three hours turnout PER WEEK; they were always very short on turnout and if you didn't like it you took the horse away!!

In any yard I think it would be very unusual for horses to have ad lib turnout at this time of year and the problem is that if you get one horse starts to tank around, then they all do, and it not only churns up the pasture for the future months but also you have the risk of injury (then the owners start to complain about that! - YO's can't win!!).

Personally if I felt owners were unhappy and ganging up on me and talking & whinging behind my back, I'd be very upset at that sort of atmosphere and the fact that people felt I was unapproachable.

So I think you need to have a quiet word, in the way that has been suggested above. Doubtless there are very good reasons why YO can't provide as much turnout as you and other owners feel your horses need, and you won't achieve anything by going at it like a bull at a gate.

I think you need to word any "complaint" that you try to establish from YO just what her difficulties are especially with the snow etc and how you as owners might help alleviate that - for instance she may be really struggling to get hay/water/feed/bedding to all the horses and you guys might be totally unaware of that side of things; that will be a far better way than being confrontational.

You say that in every other way she is a super YO. So I don't think she's doing this deliberately to be awkward, there is, I would suggest, a very good reason behind the decision.