twin panic!!!

[abailey]

Hi...any words of comfort would be greatly appreciated

I've just had my mares 15day scan and yay she's pregnant but boo she's twinned . My vet tried to pinch one (3 attempts but didn't succeed), he is returning on Wednesday (day 17) for another attempt. They are in seperate horns. This is a maiden mare and very, very precious to me.
Words of encouragement would be great but also, to be realistic if he fails again tomorrow should I ask to have the pregnancies aborted (I'm sure my vet will answer this at that time as he's the best but interested in your opinions).

Many thanks
Sleepless!!!!

 

[Roody2]

Without doubt I would say yes, if the vet can't pinch one out then abort them both. It would be a shame to lose the pregnancy but the risks to the mare and the foals is too great.

 

[whisp&willow]

i would have to agree... if the vet cant pinch one, then i'd abort both. the mare is the most important thing at the end of the day, and i would not risk her, and one if not two of the foals.

i hope the vet is successfull next time and all goes smoothly from then on. if not, then better luck next time! my boyfriends brother just had twin heartbreak this summer: they didnt know the mare was twinning, and they lost both foals. very very sad.

keeping my fingers crossed for you. keep us posted on your progress!

x

 

[abailey]

Thanks for your replies...I'm quite hopefull that he will be successfull next time - he's a very experienced breeding vet. Do you know if her chances are better for holding onto the other one as they are in seperate horns or no difference?
I will deffinately not risk this mare as sad as I'll be to have to abort the pregnancy...I'll do what I have to. Please every one cross fingers and toes for her

 

[whisp&willow]

they are all crossed up here! what's for you wont go by you.

hoping for a good news update! xxx

 

[SwingHorse]

Never knowingly continue a twin pregnancy, it's just too risky. You can always try again, if you lost the mare in a difficult twin labor you wouldn't get that chance.

 

[abailey]

Be assured I will not continue a twin pregnancy.....my mares much to precious to me.

 

[CorradeeStud]

Don´t do it to fast!!!! A lot of early twin pregnancies will only end in one (perfectly healthy) foal.
Are they both the same size? The vet should rescann it the next days and see if one might stop growing...
If he cannot get rid of one twin by day 20 or one of the twins is not considerable smaller he has to stop the pregnancy.

 

[mellissa]

My mare has twinned with both pregnancies. Each time they have been pinched and I have a superb yearling, and one on the way. Sometimes one conceptus does shrink and die if not pinched.

I think by day 18-21 the conceptus are fixed and it is not as easy to pinch, hence 15 day scans.

If u need to, if the egg cannot be pinched then inject straight away to abort. If you leave it until day 35 the endometrial cups will have formed and the mare won't return into season for three months. If you do it straight way you may be able to try again this year.

My mare was inseminated august 30th and gave birth end of July.

Good luck x

 

[abailey]

Don´t do it to fast!!!! A lot of early twin pregnancies will only end in one (perfectly healthy) foal.
Are they both the same size? The vet should rescann it the next days and see if one might stop growing...
If he cannot get rid of one twin by day 20 or one of the twins is not considerable smaller he has to stop the pregnancy.

one is about 20% smaller, I'm assuming this is the one he was trying to pinch, although I'm reading everywhere that its easier to pinch up to day 17 my vet wants it to fix so that he can get hold of it better....make sense?
(PS I'm not questioning my vet as he really is exceptional....just trying to be a bit more informed )

 

[abailey]

oh and he'll rescan tomorrow....

 

[JanetGeorge]

If you leave it until day 35 the endometrial cups will have formed and the mare won't return into season for three months. If you do it straight way you may be able to try again this year.

That's what the book says! I've just been through a saga with one of my habitual twinners! Senior vet missed a late ovulation at the 14 day scan. Junior vet (who hadn't been to SpecSavers!) missed twins at 28 day scan. Mare was on Regumate as she has a history of losing pregnancies, so decided to scan her at 45 days to ensure she hadn't - she hadn't - healthy twin pregnancies!!

After exploring the options, Senior vet tried a procedure pioneered in Australia which involves trying to separate the sac over several attempts (less likely to lose both.) At last scan, they were both gone so we stopped the Regumate but he was surprised to see 35 mm follicle and start of oedema. So we teased her - and much to my surprise - she stood for covering 3 days later!

Whether she'll get pregnant ........

 

[mellissa]

Hi Janet not sure about that one!! Could be regumate, could be why she normally lost pregnancies- who knows?!!

Best not go against the books though xx

 

[Sportznight]

Edo cups form at 35 days? Always read, been taught and practised that it's 42 days (6 weeks). If the 35 day thing were true, how come we've successfully got mares back in-foal who have lost their initial pregnancies at 38/40 days?

 

[mellissa]

It can take three days for conception to occur- hence a window- 38 days could actually be 42, etc etc


I copied this off the internet:

Endometrial cups

At about 36-38 days, fetal tissue along the chorionic girdle begin to invade the endometrium and form the endometrial cups.

Endometrial cups secrete eCG ...Equine Chorionic Gonadotrophin (formerly PMSG...Pregnant Mare Serum Gonadotrophin). This acts to luteinize the normal follicular waves that are occurring and results in formation of the secondary corpora lutea.

The cups remain, even if the pregnancy is lost, and are then sloughed at the normal time (120 days).






Equine chorionic gonadotropin (eCG): (formerly pregnant mare serum gonadotropin or PMSG)

Produced by the endometrial cups beginning around d 37-42, peaking around d 60-80, after which the endometrial cups start to decline, disappearing around d 120-150.
The function of the endometrial cups and eCG are unclear.
Some hypothesize an immunologic role in helping to maintain pregnancy.
Causes luteinization of follicular waves to create secondary CLs.
Although eCG has an FSH-like action in many other species, it has LH-like activity in mares.


XXX

 

[mellissa]

That is the general rule Sportznite, but as Janet said it does happen and mare gets in foal!

I am unfortunate in that I just cant afford cycle after cycle of AI, so I am very cautious.

X

 

[Spring Feather]

Don´t do it to fast!!!! A lot of early twin pregnancies will only end in one (perfectly healthy) foal.
Are they both the same size? The vet should rescann it the next days and see if one might stop growing...
If he cannot get rid of one twin by day 20 or one of the twins is not considerable smaller he has to stop the pregnancy.

I agree with Corradee. I've had some mares twin in early pregnancy over the years. Years ago vets used to jump in and tried to pinch, often resulting in neither surviving. These days the vet I use delays pinching and we wait a few days to see if the smaller is absorbed. All have been absorbed so we've not pinched in many years and never had twins.

 

[mistonia]

we had a problem with twins a few years ago vet missed the twins on the scan and mare aborted we nearly lost the mares as well as the foals. So i would abort if needed if one can't be pinched. good luck it all goes well, such a worry breeding.

 

[dianchi]

How did you get on today?

 

[abailey]

Went well with the vet today, pinched one easily and hopefull that the remaining one will survive as still in seperate horns. Will come back in a week to check for a heartbeat. Crossing fingers. Thanks for all your advice. A x

 

[abailey]

Had our scan today and unfortunately poor girlie has lost the pregnancy absolutely gutted.
Vet said to carry on and try again next week....I'm a little concerned about the lateness....any advice please

Thanks

 

[alfiesmum]

my mare lost her foal over 4 weeks ago at 48 days, we were advised by vet to wait till next year and get an early start.
good luck to you what ever you decide x

 

[abailey]

I'm sorry to hear you lost yours too......very sad. I'm not really sure what to do it is getting late but I'm pretty well set up with facilities to cope with a late foal, I think there always used to be a concern about the quality of the grass into the Autumn but ours is really good and plenty of it, I'm at home so no issues bringing them in and out as needed.......oh what to do

 

[GinnieRedwings]

Go for it if you think you can cope with it! No reason why not!