Twisted, possibly broken and healed back?

Elsbells

Elsbells

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A friend has just bought a lovely6 yr old IDx gelding who is very bent. She has had a vet and physio out to him and both say that it looks like it could possbly be an old break that has healed and has left him bent.

She loves him already and he's the nicest horse you could possibly meet and it is such a shame. She's been told that he'll never be able to do anything other than hack and then it could get worse as he's not moving as he should. He was brought over from Ireland a few months ago, he'd hunted there and I guess something could of happened to him then. He does though pick up his feet and doesn't seem to drag them as I would of expected?

What I'm asking/hopeing is, that without the x-rays, scans etc to confirm, how sure can she be that this is the case and if anyone on here knows of smiliar cases that have come right with the right kind of work.

Or, should she just accept that he's broken and be content to look to a rather bleak future for him and keeping him as best she can for as long as she can? Whatever the outcome, a field will always be waiting for him and he has landed on his feet.
 
Well it would certainly be useful to have it x-rayed - that way she will know what's going on.

I won't ask the obvious question.......
 
Why did she buy a horse that was bent? And did she have him vetted? If your friend is not bothered about riding him long term and is happy to keep him as a pet then I wish her the best. Makes a change to read that he has a home for life regardless. But get him x rayed as it could turnout not as bad as expected. He sounds like a nice horse.
 
Why did she buy him? He was nice and she fell in love!
Did she have him vetted? Yes she did and that vet has said, "There is nothing wrong with that horse!" ?

There are two camps of opinion at the yard and from trainers, so she had another vet, a well known horse vet take a look at him and he said, "If you hadn't already bought him we would be having a very serious conversation", and of course the ostio said the same.

He was bought to hack and give confidence, he is doing that.
 
can I use this thread to say

^5^5 to ALL people who give a home to an animal with a disability whether it be dog- cat -horse- bird anything.

Its really refreshing to see on here that some people see beyond a scar or eye problem back problem or lame . And give that animal a much needed loving home.

I see to much on here of * Oh its got this oh its got that don't buy it *

Good on your friend * raises glass to her (_)> *:D
 
elsbells said:
Why did she buy him? He was nice and she fell in love!
Did she have him vetted? Yes she did and that vet has said, "There is nothing wrong with that horse!" ?

There are two camps of opinion at the yard and from trainers, so she had another vet, a well known horse vet take a look at him and he said, "If you hadn't already bought him we would be having a very serious conversation", and of course the ostio said the same.

He was bought to hack and give confidence, he is doing that.
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Well in her shoes I would certainly be taking this up with the vet who vetted the horse.....

But anyway - xrays and go from there.
 
Agree with Amymay, I'd be taking it up the vet who past him, get xrays done and poss sue for passing a broken horse. It still wouldn't change my choice in keeping him now though, and thinking of his future but I'd be wanting to action on the original vetting.
 
The chances of a horse breaking his back and recovering are pretty slim. He MIGHT have fractured his pelvis but it's more likely he has had an injury that has stopped him using himself correctly (due to pain) and muscles have contracted and 'siezed up'. A GOOD physio should be able to do a LOT to help this sort of problem (my physio is treating two with similar problems at present and getting good improvements - one had a sacro-iliac injury which left her VERY crooked and moving close behind, the other is seized up pretty much everywhere - possibly from going over backwards on a hard surface.)

Declaring 'nothing can be done' without trying - or without further investigation - is a sign of practitioners who haven't a CLUE what is wrong and I would be wanting a second opinion. And your first step should be Tim Bradford - http://www.bradfordsvetphysio.co.uk/ I've seen a number of physios, chiros and osteos work - and I've never seen anyone to hold a candle to this guy!!
 
Thanks for all the advice. The suggestion of x-rays does seem to be the way to go and perhaps she'll do that.

As for the vet? Well they can be wrigglier than snakes:(
 
JanetGeorge said:
The chances of a horse breaking his back and recovering are pretty slim. He MIGHT have fractured his pelvis but it's more likely he has had an injury that has stopped him using himself correctly (due to pain) and muscles have contracted and 'siezed up'. A GOOD physio should be able to do a LOT to help this sort of problem (my physio is treating two with similar problems at present and getting good improvements - one had a sacro-iliac injury which left her VERY crooked and moving close behind, the other is seized up pretty much everywhere - possibly from going over backwards on a hard surface.)

Declaring 'nothing can be done' without trying - or without further investigation - is a sign of practitioners who haven't a CLUE what is wrong and I would be wanting a second opinion. And your first step should be Tim Bradford - http://www.bradfordsvetphysio.co.uk/ I've seen a number of physios, chiros and osteos work - and I've never seen anyone to hold a candle
to this guy!!
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Again agree, Tim is a lovely chap, got nothing but praise for him. He's a very very good reputation in my parts.
 
elsbells said:
Thanks for all the advice. The suggestion of x-rays does seem to be the way to go and perhaps she'll do that.

As for the vet? Well they can be wrigglier than snakes:(
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I'd disagree. X-raying the back is very expensive - and there is a risk you'll see 'changes' that are irrelevent - and be unable to see the thing that IS the problem. And of course you'd have to be looking at the back, the pelvis AND the sacro-iliac - at least. At a moderately educated guess, start at £800 and work upwards!

We are - without doubt - talking the after effects of an old injury (let's face it, if he'd had a fresh fracture when your friend tried him - and had him vetted - it would have been patently obvious to anyone not carrying a white stick! And the after-effects of an old injury are inevitably either arthritic changes - and/or muscle/ligament contractions. As compared to £800+ for sedation/x-rays (and they would have to be done at a hospital that has the BIG equipment - forget portable x-rays at home), getting Tim Bradford out for a VERY thorough work-up and examination will cost you about £140.

Apart from anything else, even if he HAS had a fracture - say - of the pelvis, knowing that won't help! Treating an old fracture can't be done - you have to treat the problems that follow-on, and that is best done by a physio!

IF a single very problematic area is found, then Tim might refer you back to the vets for u/s guided steroid injections into the back or sacro-iliac to help free things up for more corrective treatment.(cost likely to be around the £250 mark - so you could have some very comprehensive treatment for the problem the horse has NOW - for less than the cost of maybe finding out how the problem started!!)
 
JanetGeorge said:
I'd disagree. X-raying the back is very expensive - and there is a risk you'll see 'changes' that are irrelevent - and be unable to see the thing that IS the problem. And of course you'd have to be looking at the back, the pelvis AND the sacro-iliac - at least. At a moderately educated guess, start at £800 and work upwards!

We are - without doubt - talking the after effects of an old injury (let's face it, if he'd had a fresh fracture when your friend tried him - and had him vetted - it would have been patently obvious to anyone not carrying a white stick! And the after-effects of an old injury are inevitably either arthritic changes - and/or muscle/ligament contractions. As compared to £800+ for sedation/x-rays (and they would have to be done at a hospital that has the BIG equipment - forget portable x-rays at home), getting Tim Bradford out for a VERY thorough work-up and examination will cost you about £140.

Apart from anything else, even if he HAS had a fracture - say - of the pelvis, knowing that won't help! Treating an old fracture can't be done - you have to treat the problems that follow-on, and that is best done by a physio!

IF a single very problematic area is found, then Tim might refer you back to the vets for u/s guided steroid injections into the back or sacro-iliac to help free things up for more corrective treatment.(cost likely to be around the £250 mark - so you could have some very comprehensive treatment for the problem the horse has NOW - for less than the cost of maybe finding out how the problem started!!)
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Thankyou JG for such an intresting post.

Despite his problem he is settleing in well. He's been such a good boy and is fast becoming a favourite.

So far he's taken his nervous new owner out on the roads, up the woods and the lanes, going first and last without issue. This afternoon they came across the fields with myself and my pingy up for it mare and he didn't put a foot wrong, even though my girls eyes were out on stalks and she piaffed most of the way. This was after there had been a shoot on too.

Think I am falling in love with ID's;)
Even broken ones.:)
 
I had a 14yo ex-P2P TB who I bought quickly and cheaply because I fell in love with his kind eye! He was about to go off to the sales with horrendously overgrown and cracked hooves and I couldn't bear the thought of Mr Knackerman getting him so he came to mine within 3 days and no vetting. Got his feet sorted and then discovered he had a very wonky pelvis, probably because of a fracture earlier in his life, more than likely during his racing days as I had knowledge of his history since he stopped. It left him slightly short on his off-hind but he LOVED his hacks out, would stride along on the buckle, ears pricked, head turning this way and that as he took in the passing scenery and being an ex-racer he had a complete need for speed. He was always impeccably behaved, an angel on the ground and he LOVED to play. I had various physio/chiro/vet/McTimmoney people attend him for the time we were together and they all agreed that he had learned to compensate and wasn't actually in any pain.
 
Leviathan said:
can I use this thread to say

^5^5 to ALL people who give a home to an animal with a disability whether it be dog- cat -horse- bird anything.

Its really refreshing to see on here that some people see beyond a scar or eye problem back problem or lame . And give that animal a much needed loving home.

I see to much on here of * Oh its got this oh its got that don't buy it *

Good on your friend * raises glass to her (_)> *:D
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I hear what you are saying. But if you are a practical person, who does things on a shoe string and haven't oodles of cash to spend on trying to right something that has gone wrong with an animal then why would you want to buy one with a disability in the first place?? I'm not talking about the OP here now, I'm just talking in general. "God if I were a vet", I've lost count of how many times I've said that over the years! But if I were I'd have a disabled dog/cat/horse you name it and try and put right what was wrong. But I'm not and neither are the vast amount of people who can't afford to put right what animals have wrong with them.

They are not bad people and shouldn't be berated because of this. They are just people without the money/knowledge to help.
 
elsbells said:
Thanks for all the advice. The suggestion of x-rays does seem to be the way to go and perhaps she'll do that.

As for the vet? Well they can be wrigglier than snakes:(
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Yes they can, but that does not mean she should not try, especially since she is facing a lifetime of dedicated care to a horse that potentially has a serious injury which could be costly later in life, and that should have been picked up by a vet. She may well want to get another horse so financially for her it would make sense to see what recompense she can get.

Best course of action is to get x-rays for horse anyway for the horses benefit but also as proof of whatever the 'injury' once this is done you will want a full write up from your other vet of his/her findings, the injury, prognosis and what they would have reccomended with regards to purchasing the horse. I would also send the exrays to another reputable equine vet and pay them to do an appraisal of the xrays (it shouldn't be costly), finally ask the physio to make a report.

Treat the horse as reccomended by the vet after the x rays have been looked at, and then take the above reports and copies of the xrays to a solicitor along with the original vetting paperwork from the numpty vet. If your friend hits hard like that, I would suspect that she will have them on the back foot before they get a chance to wriggle.

Just because they are slippery little suckers does not mean they should be allowed to get away with it unchallenged and without repercussions.
 
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