Two question's (regarding feeding and diarrhea problem) HELP please :(

SpottyTB

SpottyTB

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Hi all, I'm after some advice if poss please

My gran's got my first pony up at her's and she's struggling with him atm, he's 12.3, 23 and a middle weight welsh B, he's had laminitus twice - so is prone. This summer he's been on about 1/2 an acre and a hand ful of chaff.

Now, for the last 2/3 months he's had really really awful diarrhea - there is no pattern to it, it's just constant. He's being fed on simple system's timothy chop and a scoop of grass nuts (the ones that soak).. we don't think it's feed related, and the grass he's been on isn't lush (as the risk of laminitus is to high).

In early August he dropped a lot of weight, you can see his ribs when he's stood still.. farrier saw him about 3 week's ago and said he's looking slightly under but wouldn't worry as the time of year was risky. Grandma put him onto about 2 acres along side the retired TB.. he's been on it for 3 week's and hasn't put any weight on at all - if anything he's dropped some.

She's got this paste thing to cleanse his gut? so she's trying that before taking a sample to the vet (she's just lost her husband - my grandad so she's been a little slower than usual).. but i'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this?

Also, i've suggested popping him on some feed now as i'd like him to put some weight on going into the winter... I suggest Alfa original and some beat.. can anyone suggest anything better/more suitable?

I honestly/my oh who's an apprentice farrier don't think he's at risk of laminitus as he is just SO skinny and poor looking. Spoke to my gran tonight and she's decided to leave him on the patch he's on (1 acre), feed a couple slices of hay at night and feed once a day (upping to twice when nov hits)..

Thought's?

Thank you in advance!

PS) this is also posted in NL but figured i could get some more help in here...
 
No we haven't to be fair, his coat isn't curly though - very sleek TB type coat.. laminitus was about 5 year's back too...

Might be worth having him tested i guess..
 
Could he of picked up too much sand from the baldish paddock? Just a thought as its an issue i have had. Other similar difficulties have been liver damage, which i unhelpfully can't remember what we gave but it sorted it out. some good probotics and introducing/ increasing a feed with a high spec of micronutrients plus ad lib hay would be my initial thoughts. I would have a chat with your vet as well though.
 
A friend of mine has been in touch with vet for my gran - he suggested the cleansing paste for sixpence.

Would naf pink powder be a good one to feed?

Not sand related as no bald patches in field.. I personally think its been since she's fed him simple systems.. Nothing in the stuff and I feel maybe he's lacking in something?

I could be wrong though!

:-)
 
Could still be sand, especially with all the wet weather as it can 'splash' sand/earth further up the grass shoot.

My horse had cushings and her coat wasn't curly at all - had the same symptoms. I personally would be getting the vet out sooner than later as 2/3months on loose droppings is not good and you will end up in an endless cycle of diarrhea and dehydration (horse get thirsty, then over does the water, gut goes into overdrive and makes the horse squitty)
 
I have used Pink powder with some success but only with mild symptoms. Pro- bio is suppose to be quite good- my vet recommended for a sensitive tummy. I feed balanced n hance and its great as no additional supplements needed but you could give them a call to talk about your chap. they're always really helpful with me!
 
My daughters old pony was the same age and had this. She did not loose condition and appeared well. Her bloods only showed mild cushings and we only did them after we had tried probiotics, feed balancers, changes of feed and all sorts of things as she did not "appear" to have cushings. All her stool samples came back clear too. She did not seem to be unhappy but the diarrhoea was vile.
Within a couple of weeks of being treated for cushings she improved and never had diarrhoea again. We did loose her this year to laminitis but she was 28 by then and it was her first bout.:(
 
I'd be going for:

- comprehensive blood test (so including liver enzymes, muscle enzymes etc. A comprehensive test only tends to be a little more expensive than a briefer one, but when you don't know what you're looking for, I'd opt for as wide a range of things as possible)

- definitely worth testing for glucose/insulin and ACTH so you see how he's doing in terms of potential Cushing's and insulin resistance (a lot of horses have Cushing's but don't have a curly coat, especially early on)

- I don't think you mentioned him being on a vitamin/mineral supplement? I would definitely start him, gradually, on a good vit/min supplement or balancer. Probably worth speaking to some of the feed company nutritionists, but definitely Nicola Tyler at Topspec, for advice on the best one to feed. If he's not getting a full dose of a good vit/min, then he will most probably be deficient in some things, which won't be helping, whether or not it's the primary cause of a problem.

Sarah
 
Firstly, please be aware that being skinny is not a foolproof way of preventing laminitis. He has had it before, so is still at risk, despite being underweight.

Regarding the weight - as well as blood tests, I'd worm count him (be careful with which wormers you use, as they have been known to trigger laminitis in delicate cases). I'd also put him on something like yea sacc to aid the gut, and consider the possibility of stomach and/or hindgut ulcers.
 
Hi all - update on today's work - Wormed him, picked up a pro-biotic tube from vet's, so will start giving him 5ml per day for 6 days and see if it helps.

Picked up some mollichaff original, super senior mix and went down when my gran to see him.. i don't thin he's lose any weight since i saw him 3/4 weeks ago.. but i've suggested she put him on a small scoop of mix, a handful of chaff, a scoop of beat and keep him on the same paddock he's on atm (with a slice of hay at night).

Going to try the new feed and pro-biotic paste for 2 week's and get his teeth done (took him 40 mins to eat the above feed).. which is twice as long as it used to be.. he's also rugged up in a MW rug (to keep him warm).. if none of the above works after 2 week's we'll take him to the vets for a check up but vet suggested we do what we are for now.

I do feel that atm he's just on this simple system's stuff and there's nothing in it (just plain old hay/straw chopped), he's also in with 2 others and i'm not sure how much food he's getting (as TB eats super quick and then goes and eats ponys food).. so she's seperating him into his own paddock as well

I should add he isn't super sensitive to laminitus, he had it about 5 years ago after he got into the feed room and ate non soaked beet and then 6 weeks after cos he just seemed to put more and more weight on. Since then he's been fat quite often (not my choice - only so much nagging you can do) and not go it.. so i would not call him sensitive. He's also skinny enough that you can almost see his tail bone .. he's SO thin (much thinner then he usually is at the end of summer). He is also drinking A LOT - especially after eating his feed... :confused:
 
SpottyTB said:
Hi all - update on today's work - Wormed him, picked up a pro-biotic tube from vet's, so will start giving him 5ml per day for 6 days and see if it helps.

Picked up some mollichaff original, super senior mix and went down when my gran to see him.. i don't thin he's lose any weight since i saw him 3/4 weeks ago.. but i've suggested she put him on a small scoop of mix, a handful of chaff, a scoop of beat and keep him on the same paddock he's on atm (with a slice of hay at night).

Going to try the new feed and pro-biotic paste for 2 week's and get his teeth done (took him 40 mins to eat the above feed).. which is twice as long as it used to be.. he's also rugged up in a MW rug (to keep him warm).. if none of the above works after 2 week's we'll take him to the vets for a check up but vet suggested we do what we are for now.

I do feel that atm he's just on this simple system's stuff and there's nothing in it (just plain old hay/straw chopped), he's also in with 2 others and i'm not sure how much food he's getting (as TB eats super quick and then goes and eats ponys food).. so she's seperating him into his own paddock as well

I should add he isn't super sensitive to laminitus, he had it about 5 years ago after he got into the feed room and ate non soaked beet and then 6 weeks after cos he just seemed to put more and more weight on. Since then he's been fat quite often (not my choice - only so much nagging you can do) and not go it.. so i would not call him sensitive. He's also skinny enough that you can almost see his tail bone .. he's SO thin (much thinner then he usually is at the end of summer). He is also drinking A LOT - especially after eating his feed... :confused:
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Please, please be careful; that feed is extremely sugar and starch rich - a laminitis risk for sure. My TB is skinny, yet he had a laminitic episode a couple of weeks ago. Being skinny does not mean your pony is not a laminitis risk. I'm not trying to nag, but I know from experience of the dangers of piling NSCs into a horse to try and get it to gain weight - you're much better off with a skinny pony.
 
I am sorry but I am the first to say when a horse is tubby or fat.. I have always been on her case re) weight of pony.. But when you can see nearly all his bones, ribs and tail bone - I call it quits. He weighs a tad over 200kg and he's 13hands chunky welsh.. If the vet (who's treated the pony for laminitis 5 years ago) is concerned about his weight I'm afraid I'm going to feed him it. It's a feed stores own branded mix which is low in sugar and molasses.. The beet is molasses free and the chaff (is not perfect but he's on one handful).

The section he is on - I should add - is scruffy grass that's been already grazed down by a TB.

Not snapping but I'm so so careful of laminitis and I would never normally dream of putting this feed into him but I have to admit I'm really concerned. He has never come out of the summer looking like this, he's been on a small patch yes but fed twice a day(I hadnt been aware of this) and 1 slice of hay a night.. And he still wasn't fat.. So she carried the above on and put him out onto a big paddock with Tb and again he didn't put any weight on.

Should add; oh is a farrier and see's the pony every week so keeps a watchful eye over his feet/weight in case of laminitis.

:)
 
SpottyTB said:
I am sorry but I am the first to say when a horse is tubby or fat.. I have always been on her case re) weight of pony.. But when you can see nearly all his bones, ribs and tail bone - I call it quits. He weighs a tad over 200kg and he's 13hands chunky welsh.. If the vet (who's treated the pony for laminitis 5 years ago) is concerned about his weight I'm afraid I'm going to feed him it. It's a feed stores own branded mix which is low in sugar and molasses.. The beet is molasses free and the chaff (is not perfect but he's on one handful).

The section he is on - I should add - is scruffy grass that's been already grazed down by a TB.

Not snapping but I'm so so careful of laminitis and I would never normally dream of putting this feed into him but I have to admit I'm really concerned. He has never come out of the summer looking like this, he's been on a small patch yes but fed twice a day(I hadnt been aware of this) and 1 slice of hay a night.. And he still wasn't fat.. So she carried the above on and put him out onto a big paddock with Tb and again he didn't put any weight on.

Should add; oh is a farrier and see's the pony every week so keeps a watchful eye over his feet/weight in case of laminitis.

:)
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I'm going to agree with Twostroke a horse does not have to be fat to get laminitis! A friend of mine put her skinny veteran on a veteran mix and he got severe laminitis (never had it before)and had to be PTS. Excessive drinking is another sign of Cushings. Why waste your money on loads of things that probably won't work when a blood test will show or rule out the most likely conditions and then at least you will be feeding the right things and not wasting time and money?
 
SpottyTB said:
I am sorry but I am the first to say when a horse is tubby or fat.. I have always been on her case re) weight of pony.. But when you can see nearly all his bones, ribs and tail bone - I call it quits. He weighs a tad over 200kg and he's 13hands chunky welsh.. If the vet (who's treated the pony for laminitis 5 years ago) is concerned about his weight I'm afraid I'm going to feed him it. It's a feed stores own branded mix which is low in sugar and molasses.. The beet is molasses free and the chaff (is not perfect but he's on one handful).

The section he is on - I should add - is scruffy grass that's been already grazed down by a TB.

Not snapping but I'm so so careful of laminitis and I would never normally dream of putting this feed into him but I have to admit I'm really concerned. He has never come out of the summer looking like this, he's been on a small patch yes but fed twice a day(I hadnt been aware of this) and 1 slice of hay a night.. And he still wasn't fat.. So she carried the above on and put him out onto a big paddock with Tb and again he didn't put any weight on.

Should add; oh is a farrier and see's the pony every week so keeps a watchful eye over his feet/weight in case of laminitis.

:)
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I understand what you're saying, as it's what I thought too when I did the same thing for my TB. All I'll say is that there are other ways of putting weight on without the risk of causing this:

feet07-01-12006.jpg


To become this:

LH1_zpsc4808230.jpg


Caused by 10 days of feeding a certain brand of super conditioning flakes to an underweight horse :(.
 
glenruby said:
I would be getting a blood sample tO check liver function and protein levels.
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This. I would be getting a vet out to rule out several other serious issues that can cause those symptoms in an older pony. Save your money in the long run by having an idea what the actual issue is.
Supplements etc will not be much addition if your horse is having liver problems which can and do cause diarrhoea and weight loss.......and thats just one of the potential issues that could be there....
 
hi SpottyTB,

dont know if youve found an answer yet but i had the same problem with my warmblood gelding last winter. It turned out that because i had changed him to haylage it was too rich for him and gave him the runs, i put him on pink powder during the transition to hay and it helped a lot! when i was wondering what the cause of it was the vet said if it didnt clear up it could be worms? when they get a bad dose of worms they usually loose weight, have diaorhea and become lathargic (as the worms get all the nutrients). I hope this was of some help and you find a solution as i know its not a nice thing to happen to your beloved horse.
 
My welshy was the same . it used to fire out of him like liquid all the time. I had him on protexin bio premuim which helped. He has just had laminitis so have been soaking his hay for at least 8 hrs -this has made a huge difference-but the real miracle has been BLUE CHIP LAMI LITE BALACER . he has half a cup twice a day and it has dried it up completely. This is the first time ever for 3 yrs . The real test is that we are now on new hay and still nothing. .
 
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