Ulcers

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Kelly1982

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Can anyone tell me about your experiences with them? Symptoms? Did you get your horse scoped? Best treatment? Etc

My horse has always hated his girth being done up, pulls faces and tries to walk off as your putting saddle on. Fine to be groomed and touched there though.

Also when you get on him you can't put your leg on for first 10 mins as he just tenses into a tight ball and feels like he is going to explode (but never actually does). This is worse if I use my leg on his right side. After a while though he does settle and is ok.

This is also usually worse in the mornings when he has been stabled all night but in the evenings if he has been out all day he isn't so bad and settles down quite quickly.

Since the nights have been drawing in and he has been stabled for longer our schooling (especially canter work) has gone a bit backwards and I've not been able to work out why as nothing else has changed.

Also he does suffer from separation anxiety so if he sees others going out before him in the morning or I take my mare away he really stresses (although this is 1000x better than a year ago).

He has had all checks done religiously so I know he isn't in any pain with regards to tack, teeth etc so now I'm wondering if maybe ulcers is the cause?
 
My mare had a rapid change in behaviour which made me think Ulcers. Vet agreed, but I couldn't get her to the practice for scoping due to no transport!

After some researching I changed her feed to dengie healthy tummy (she gets half a stubbs scoop in each feed as she is a good doer) and 50 ml of corn oil in each feed. 1 month on, symptoms are practically gone so I saved myself a tonne of money there!!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr05hMmLCY4 - useful starting point, although some of the reactions could be other causes. Sounds like possible ulcers to me. There are numerous treatments on the market, ranging form the very expensive to the cheap and cheerful, but basically it means reducing acidity (bicarbonate of soda for example), lining the system (e.g. coconut oil or slippery elm), improving the gat environment with a probiotic and ensuring it never gets empty, as well as stress reduction, to allow healing. Field rest if you can do it is a good treatment for the last two.
 
Lookup Dr Ridgeway's paper on ulcers very informative. I found Ritetrac by Kerx the miracle fix for my horses ulcers.
Ensure diet is low sugar and starch. Lots of trickle feeding of forage.
 
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That video was really interesting!! One thing that really rung true is that he said horses can sometimes turn round and try to bite your feet!! My horse does this!! He doesn't actually bite them but he does turn round to look at them, especially on his right side which is the side he won't let me put any leg on.

He hasn't had any drastic change in temperament though. Just the performance problems which have seemed worse since winter has set in. I thought it might have been coz he didn't like being ridden in the dark as he associated it with dinner time but he has been the same in the day time too recently.

Think I may give my vet a ring
 
I also put him on competition mix as even though he was responsive to the leg he was really hard work and would just stop dead as soon as you took your leg off. He would also stop dead after a jump. He hasn't done this in a while though, he seems to be the opposite at the moment.
 
My boy was scoped in August after suspecting ulcers, he has grade 1 and grade 2 ulcers, a lot of them.

He is a 16.1 Sports Horse, he cribs a lot, he got very stressed with a yard move and symptoms got worse. He was threatening to bite and sometimes was nipping when girthing, I couldn't get him going forward without spurs and a few other small things I noticed.

I moved him again and put him on 4 weeks of gastrogard, after about 4/5 days it really made a difference, he was noticeably more comfortable, barely cribbing, forward and happy. Once we finished we waited and a couple of weeks later he seems uncomfortable again. My vet said if he lived out that is likely to help, so I moved with some friends. After a week of being there he seemed very happy, he is having more gastrogard this month but this time we will take him off slowly and it shouldn't be such a shock to his stomach. He is no where near as bad as he was so fingers crossed the next lot will get rid of all of them.
The vet is happy with my feed, he is on low starch and sugar feed and has oil. He has ad lib hay when he is in the stable and we have hay bales out in the field as the grass has less nutrients in it now.

Top spec comprehensive balancer is good
alfa a oil
top spec cool conditioning cubes
speedibeet/alfabeet
simple system feeds are good for ulcers, in my opinion not great for a horse if it drops in winter though, could be worth mixing them though.
baileys lo cal balancer is good however baileys say they havent got much for ulcers
calm and condition isnt bad but works out quite bulky

Thats some of my views anyway :)
 
Thanks Jo that's really helpful, especially the feeding suggestions. Did your vet have to prescribe the gastroguard? And how much did you pay for him to be scoped? (Obviously I know vet prices vary for different areas).

When it comes to turnout I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place as my mare would rather be in her stable than the field and my gelding would rather be out but I can't separate them as they stress even though they have other company so I can't win!! They do go out for at least 7 hours a day though.

I do think if he does have them then he has had them since i brought him. He has calmed down so much in the past year but obviously they have never been treated.

Am definitely going to call my vet tomorrow.
 
Several of ours have been diagnosed with ulcers. The gelding was the strange one, he didn't show much in the way of symptoms for a long time, but was very inconsistent in his racing. He then started being very stressy in the mornings prior to turnout, and stopped eating properly. He has always cribbed. When the vet scoped him he was amazed at the level of ulcers, he had a course of gastroguard and the difference was stunning. One of our vets who hadn't seen him for a while thought he had been on steroids he had filled out so much. It was thought he had had ulcers since he was a youngster. He now lives out, and has a completely cereal free diet. He does still crib though.
 
So does loss of appetite happen to them all? Or is it a case of every horse is different?

My gelding is not greedy by any means but he does love his dinner and certainly hasn't lost his appetite.

It's just his inconsistency in his schooling that has made me question other things. At least if I get him checked its one more thing to rule out.
 
No the loss of appetite doesn't seem to happen every time, our anglo ate like a pig throughout! My little arab also ate pretty well, but was just nippy, and aggressive at times. Also she had a multitude of ridden issues as a result!
 
Another who cribbed, scoped, ulcers and gastroguard.

She still cribs but nowhere near as much, she is naturally very stressy and currently lives out which has helped a lot.
Once diagnosed she put on weight quickly and looked a different horse 6 weeks down the line.
Over a year later and she is one happy chappy but I do have to monitor her in regard to weight because I don't want any backwards movement on it and she is never left to go hungry- there's always hay out regardless of grass.
 
I think the scope was around £280, i can check. The insurance have paid out. the only think i would say with the treatment vet medic is about £25 a dose not like vets who charge about £40 per dose. :). The first thing you can do is ensure he has ad lib hay, not halege (i give sometimes as a treat but rarely). Protexin do a reasonable priced gut balancer that is very good.

Feed has a big difference to how they are feeling. I am just changing my boys feed because he looks uncomfortable when eating and it takes him ages. He is on calm and condition and while i think its a good feed you have to feed them a large amount. I was on the baileys lo cal balancer and am now changing to the top spec comprehensive (more calories) and will be using conditioning cubes to keep the bulk down. I will only be able to tell within the next few weeks when i finish my calm and condition how much of a difference that may make. The top spec balancer is costly but has gut loving ingredients as well as biotin and with enough protein to keep the weight on over winter. Oil also lines the stomach, mazola oil is good, you get it from supermarkets. You can use up to half a cup a day or mug, basically a lot.

You can use epsom salts in their feed to calm them down. It might well be routine why you find it difficult splitting them. Also if your gelding has ulcers and your mare just prefers to be in possibly the best option is to leave out when the weather suits providing you have the grass.

Before you give dinner ensure he has had hay, lines the stomach so the hard feed is less likely to splash.
Before you tack up always give hay, maybe alfa pellets, i personally give a hand of lucie pellets from simple system before i get on.
I find the more sensitive girthing side is the side we get on, think the stomach sits slightly over to that side, best trying to be as gentle as you can. I have a frank baines soft leather girth.

I think when the ulcers are uncomfortable they tend to jump a little flat and with less impulsion or the total oppisite and bomb over it.

What do you feed at the moment?
 
Hi Jo

Thankfully I do actually do most of what you have suggested. They don't have hay in the field as I'm on livery and it's not allowed but there are 5 of them on a 10 acre field so grass is pretty good even though I know there are not as many nutrients this time of year.

Both horses are out by 7am every morning and brought in about 2.30pm and have ad lib hay and a nut ball with 1/2 stub scoop of nuts. I usually get there about 4.30 and ride so his stomach should be lined by time I ride.

I always girth up gradually and I always make sure I get on from a mounting block. I do this coz I don't like the strain on their backs but have also noticed he doesn't like me getting on from the ground.

Once ridden he goes back in and has ad lib hay til the morning. He always has a mountain of hay left so I know he is not goin hungry.

I'm lucky in that even though he is a WB he is quite a good doer so currently he is only on 1/2 stub scoop of hi fi original, 1/2 stub scoop of competition mix and 1/4 stub scoop of speedibeet which he is fed twice a day. Oh and he has a scoop of garlic too.
 
Even if the scope result is negative don't discount them - no endoscope can reach in to the intestines and there is a lot of surface in there which can bear ulcers. Treating as a diagnostic test is more reliable IMO.
 
In that case your doing the right things :). Id suggest you change the competition to mix to something with lower starch and sugars. Maybe ask your vet if they know of any good supplements that will lower the Ph, protexin gut balancer is good for hind gut ulcers which may ne present :)
 
I did wonder if it was worth scoping as I had read that they can sometimes come back negative but I know gastroguard had to be prescribed by the vet.

Can you get the protexin from a feed shop or is it best to order that online?

I've got to go to the feed shop today so will look at changing his mix too.

Thanks to all your replies, they've been really helpful
 
There is a Protexin page on facebook. If you join and post or message they are good at replying. I sent her an essay about my boys ulcers lol.

You are likely to pay more in feed to get the best but does them the world of good. I always thought balancers were a way of making more money and pointless until i tried them after being advised, i will now not go back. People keep coming up to me asking why he looks so good as its winter, hes very shiny. Oil also helps with shine :)
 
My gelding had ulcers about this time last year... his behaviour changed dramatically - i bought him at the end of September 2012, calm and relaxed - by November 2012 i had hit the deck in dramatic fashion twice!

I changed his diet and put him on feedmark's ulcer calm, which did suppress the change in his behaviour, but he was twitchy and very very lazy, the bad weather in winter 2013, coupled with a hoof abscess and he was back to being very uncomfortable when ridden. His appetite wasnt affected, he was a joy to handle, but ridden was very scary. Vet came out, and we came to the conclusion his ulcers were as a result of the stress of a new home etc. so rather then scope, Vet recommened a 1 week Gastroguard trial, scoping would just increase the stress he was feeling, and seemed an unfair process to put him through. within 48hours on GG he was a joy to ride.

It took about 3-4 months on GG at varying levels, but we got there in the end. I also discovered Alltech lifeforce, great stuff and made a real ongoing difference.

Diet wise, he's on Dengie Hi-Fi unmollassed (1/2 stubbs scoop), Alltech lifeforece, Boswellia, (at this time of the year miconised linseed) if he's doing a lot of work i add ERS pellets so he has enough energy. he gets this twice a day. he lives out 24/7, well rugged - keeping him warm is essential - although if the weather is really bad i do bring him in, he gets ad-lib haynets when he's in, and i also leave a trug of graze-on (wouldnt recommend this until the ulcers are under control). we also put haylage out in the field morning & evening when they're out. I do feed haylage, would prefer to give him hay as haylage is known to aggrevate ulcers, but we dont have any hay storage.

It does sound like ulcers OP, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
 
Thats sounds so stressful, i feel for you.
I would advise living out, some horses just cant handle being in. Or a calmer, top spec said a horse that has ulcers is more than likely stressing over something, epsom salts might be worth a go.
Do you feed alfa?
 
Just thought I would add my experience with an ulcer prone mare.

The episodes seem to have been caused by stress. Now we have a routine that seems to allow her to cope better or at least not ulcerate her gut with worry.

Firstly I highly recommend gastroguard. She developed ulcers very suddenly. A new horse was put into my mares field without my knowledge and Minnie ( worry queen) jumped out, gashed her knee and was hopping lame on the back right as well.
Trip up to vets clinic that day resulted in knee joint injury being signed off as not affecting the joint or needing surgery but during the trip and day or so stay the stress caused her to colic quite badly and develop ulcers - apparently he thought she was very homesick - as I think we would all be stuck in a hospital ward!

I can't recommend gastroguard highly enough - it's given my stress head a lot of relief and avoided further colicky episodes!

Also my vet recommended ensuring her gut is always working (ad lib hay) and alpha a - apparently alfalfa is good for the gut and this routine has worked this far fingers crossed.


Good luck finding the correct balance/management for your horse!
 
My boy showed siimilar symptoms - cribber, crabby in the mornings but better when ridden later in the day after day out on grass, stopping in mid stride when schooled showing signs of discomfort. Saddle, teeth, back etc all checked. We tried turning him out for a few months, but he just stressed more with the change in routine and drastically dropped weight. He neve lost his appetite, but I noticed that when he was given his bucket feed he drew up his stomach so that he showed "heave lines" and also was very tight around the mouth as if in extreme pain. He went to RVC and was scoped, which showed serious ulcer disease. One month on high dose Gastrogard and 1 month on half dose, and he was rescoped and was clear of ulcers. Since then we have tried various routines and diets to keep him happy and clear of ulcers, and what seems to work best is as much turnout as possible, no schooling (he seems to still associate this with pain), and the best feed for him so far is Dengie Healthy Tummy. He looks fantastic on it! So he is now a happy hacker rather than a show horse but at least he is happy and healthy.
 
I thought my then new mare could have ulcers as she bit when tacked/rugged and was generally grumpy. I knew that she had been having a high starch cereal diet. Here she has no cereal high fibre forage based diet. I followed a tip on here and gave her aloe vera juice which has made a lot of difference to her and has the added advantage of costing about £10 per bottle.
 
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