Ulcers

[Mahoganybay]

Anyone with similar experience with their horse? I bought my mare in April 18 from a home she had been bred at and lived all her life, she was rising 8 years old.

From the start we had settling in issues, spinning, napping, rearing, bolting until Jan 19 when she threw me off & I decided that was enough. Long story short I took her to the vets to check for any pain responses and after various X-rays, steroid injections back & forth and then eventually a MRI scan we got to the bottom of it in Feb 20. Treatment given and I slowly brought her back into work. I also moved her to my trainers yard and tested for PSSM which came back negative.

This Spring/Summer was amazing, we were out competing at dressage, pole work clinics, hacking and schooling. She was sound & loving life.

Then on the 22 Oct whilst having a lesson, she bolted and threw me off. This came from nowhere on the lesson, but looking back a couple of weeks there had been indicators something wasn’t right.

Cantering when being asked to trot
Throwing her head up in canter
Ears back going over a trot pole
Reacting badly to over horses passing her stable (ear flat back & lunging)
Reacting to touching her flanks

So, she went to the vets for a scope. Grade 2/3 Squamous & Glandular Ulcers found. 6 week course of Omeprazole & Sucralfate. I’ve also consulted an independent equine nutritionist & we have made slight changes to her feed and put her on Science Supplement Gastrokind. She’s due to be rescoped on 15 Dec.

Once clear of the ulcers I will be taking her to the orthopaedic vets to check for any issues, but both my trainer & physio agree that she’s sound. ?‍

My question is can the ulcers have been there all the time, from the stress of moving? From when the pain started? If they have been there will it be that the times when she has been going good is it because she’s out at grass?

Does being out really make a difference with an ulcer prone horse. Both yards I’ve been on with her didn’t/don’t have winter turnout. But she does go in a sand paddock 2x a day and on a horse Walker.

Sorry such a long post, hope you can understand what I’m asking?

 

[Mahoganybay]

To add, I have had back, hocks, suspensories xrayed/scanned and no issues.

Have had stifles and SI joint scanned and medicated.

Have had both front feet xrayed/scanned/MRI and right fore medicated twice and then in Feb the MRI which showed degenerative changes in coffin joint. She had Aquamid Hydrogel injected and wears a spider plate shoe.

 

[HeyMich]

Yes, the ulcers may have been there all along (stress of leaving her first home, new environment, pain from stifles/SI etc), and yes, I find that my ulcer-prone mare (sounds very similar to yours actually) is much happier and healthier in the summer months. I have her out 24/7 now, and only ask for light hacking in the winter months. In the summer, we school, hack, XC, SJ, you name it, we do it! Having quieter winters seems to suit her well, and last time we scoped coming out of winter when she would normally be grumpy and reactive to touch (March 2020) she was clear!

Yes, I think turnout plays a huge role in the health and comfort of an ulcer-prone horse. Apart from the obvious constant movement and interaction with other horses, the lack of natural grazing and increase in hay/haylage and hard feeds adversely affects their gut, if you ask me. Their diet and style of food intake is totally changed, as are their surroundings and herd abilities, and therefore stress levels, even if they don't show it. I appreciate that not all livery yards can offer turnout, but for my ulcer horse, it's a huge consideration; I will be keeping her on 24/7 herd turnout for as long as I possibly can, and keeping quieter winters too.

Good luck with your mare, and I hope you can work out how to manage her needs for the best.

 

[charterline]

So she’s clearly had some medical issues in the past which have more than likely lead to the ulcers.

whilst out in the field, factors mentioned above probably helped keep them “in check”.

then she was stabled, which brought them to the fore.

hopefully now she is rid of them she will stay that way. Just try and keep everything low key and easy for the next few weeks to see how she gets on

 

[Fluffypiglet]

Sorry if this confuses things but bear in mind that 24/7 turnout works for most but my ex-ulcer horse would be stressed by enforced turnout in Winter. Ulcers are extremely difficult as they can be caused by a multitude of things, different things for different horses. Good ulcer management (adlib forage, 24/7 turnout, limited strarch/sugar etc) is an excellent starting point but do not necessarily provide any cure. My vet reassured me of this as he had treated a horse with ulcers (no clear pain anywhere) who had the perfect horsey lifestyle and when bought back in from the field after 4mths r&r still had ulcers as before with no improvement seen. Mine had ulcers caused (I believe) by the people around him at the time and I suspect he would relapse in a stressful yard no matter how good the other factors were. It's a difficult thing to deal with and I hope you can find your mare's triggers. I only really found out best management for mine via a yard move and an unusual set of circumstances.

ETA - we moved from good, group turnout to individual turnout. I don't like it but the yard itself works so much better. I don't have the luxury of yards with much turnout in my area but the current yard is excellent at trying their best with limited land and try to keep him out as much as the horse will cope with. Main difference is that they listen to him. (or pander to the princess as we call it)

 

[Mahoganybay]

So she’s clearly had some medical issues in the past which have more than likely lead to the ulcers.

whilst out in the field, factors mentioned above probably helped keep them “in check”.

then she was stabled, which brought them to the fore.

hopefully now she is rid of them she will stay that way. Just try and keep everything low key and easy for the next few weeks to see how she gets on

Thank you, this is what I am thinking. That now she’s hopefully being treated and we can get the ulcers sorted and the vet is happy that she is sound/pain free that we can see how she fares.

I think the last thing I need to throw into the equation is a change of yard.

 

[Mahoganybay]

Sorry if this confuses things but bear in mind that 24/7 turnout works for most but my ex-ulcer horse would be stressed by enforced turnout in Winter. Ulcers are extremely difficult as they can be caused by a multitude of things, different things for different horses. Good ulcer management (adlib forage, 24/7 turnout, limited strarch/sugar etc) is an excellent starting point but do not necessarily provide any cure. My vet reassured me of this as he had treated a horse with ulcers (no clear pain anywhere) who had the perfect horsey lifestyle and when bought back in from the field after 4mths r&r still had ulcers as before with no improvement seen. Mine had ulcers caused (I believe) by the people around him at the time and I suspect he would relapse in a stressful yard no matter how good the other factors were. It's a difficult thing to deal with and I hope you can find your mare's triggers. I only really found out best management for mine via a yard move and an unusual set of circumstances.

ETA - we moved from good, group turnout to individual turnout. I don't like it but the yard itself works so much better. I don't have the luxury of yards with much turnout in my area but the current yard is excellent at trying their best with limited land and try to keep him out as much as the horse will cope with. Main difference is that they listen to him. (or pander to the princess as we call it)

Its is really difficult isn’t it when turnout in your area is restricted. The yard I’m at now really does look after the horses with limited land.

Where I live there is only two yards that offer any type of field turnout in winter. One the horses are out in knee deep mud, the other hacking is compromised.

 

[Mahoganybay]

Yes, the ulcers may have been there all along (stress of leaving her first home, new environment, pain from stifles/SI etc), and yes, I find that my ulcer-prone mare (sounds very similar to yours actually) is much happier and healthier in the summer months. I have her out 24/7 now, and only ask for light hacking in the winter months. In the summer, we school, hack, XC, SJ, you name it, we do it! Having quieter winters seems to suit her well, and last time we scoped coming out of winter when she would normally be grumpy and reactive to touch (March 2020) she was clear!

Yes, I think turnout plays a huge role in the health and comfort of an ulcer-prone horse. Apart from the obvious constant movement and interaction with other horses, the lack of natural grazing and increase in hay/haylage and hard feeds adversely affects their gut, if you ask me. Their diet and style of food intake is totally changed, as are their surroundings and herd abilities, and therefore stress levels, even if they don't show it. I appreciate that not all livery yards can offer turnout, but for my ulcer horse, it's a huge consideration; I will be keeping her on 24/7 herd turnout for as long as I possibly can, and keeping quieter winters too.

Good luck with your mare, and I hope you can work out how to manage her needs for the best.

The quieter winter routine may be something to consider, she’s certainly having one this winter due to her treatment and my injures from the fall ?

 

[HobleytheTB]

It certainly sounds like she's had a lot going on medically, so I don't doubt the ulcers could have been there a long while and have now been exacerbated by the turnout situation.

How much turnout does she get per day and is she alone or with others?

Mine has also had ulcers after some lameness issues. She was turned out in the sick paddock for a couple of hours a day due to the lameness and that really seemed to flare everything up. Her general behaviour improved when I put her back in her normal field all day, despite the ulcers still being there. Since scoping clear I've kept her on over night turnout (18 hours or so), and she's a lot calmer and happier. I think in an ideal world horses should have as much turnout time as possible in a small herd. Not always doable depending on where you are of course.

 

[bubsqueaks]

From our experience there's a big difference between Squamous ulcers & Glandular ulcers
After one years treatment for Glandular ulcers, we had to turn our connie away for 18 months - now scoped clear, bought back into work with none of the previous symptoms exhibited which are similar to yours.
Even the vets do not fully understand the cause or treatment for glandular ulcers - they are particularly tricky to treat due to their location right at the bottom.
We found that all the supplements, medications, out 24 hours, grass or hay at all times, didnt make any difference, until we just turned him away & allowed nature to heal.
We always suspected the ulcers were caused by the transport from Ireland as hes an anxious traveller & doesnt eat, combine that with going through the sales environment prior to travel for a young highly strung horse & its no wonder really is it.
I would thoroughly recommend turning away if theres no other issues & am not a great believer in all the supplements or feeds which ultimately are good marketing!

 

[charterline]

If you can get him out, rob jackson the horseback vet, is good at picking “issues” up