Ulcery Horse 'not right' being wormed: Calm me down, please.

Fruitcake

Fruitcake

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Just wondering if anyone had any experience or thoughts.

Horse has had low grade ulcers in the past. Numerous courses of Gastroguard. Ulcers would clear and then return. Now on veterinary supplement but still shows mild symptoms every now and again.

Gave first dose of Panacur 5 day last night. (Resistance test came back med count but, after talking to lab, may have left too long after finishing worming before testing so redoing Panacur to check there's no resistance).

He seemed fine this morning. (Lives out- came for morning hay etc). Mid morning, saw him lying in field. (Not too unusual but weather wasn't sunny). Got up when he saw me and trotted over. Two hours later, saw him lying down again. Again, got up when he saw me. Brought him in to keep eye on him. Gut sounds normal, passing normal droppings, eating hay and drinking. Hasn't had a lie down since coming in. Seems bright, normal self.

Spoke to on-call vet to check about giving 2nd dose of wormer tonight. (I suspect, perhaps, the wormer is irritating his ulcers / stomach lining). She said to give him 50ml of sunflower oil half hour before 2nd dose tonight and contact vets tomorrow to see about getting some Gastroguard for the next few days.

I suppose this sounds sensible but I'm just so much of a worrier! Is it likely that the wormer could irritate the stomach?
 
The wormer could have irritated his guts but equally you disturbed his first lie down if the morning and then disturbed him a second time, maybe due to your anxiety you were acting differently when you saw him lying down, one of mine lies down mid morning, except if it is pouring with rain, if for any reason he is disturbed he will go back a bit later and snooze again, it is his routine and he sticks to it.
 
be positive said:
The wormer could have irritated his guts but equally you disturbed his first lie down if the morning and then disturbed him a second time, maybe due to your anxiety you were acting differently when you saw him lying down, one of mine lies down mid morning, except if it is pouring with rain, if for any reason he is disturbed he will go back a bit later and snooze again, it is his routine and he sticks to it.
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Thanks for this! This is actually very possible. He is a real creature of habit / routine for so many things and does actually often have a snooze on his feet mid morning.

I've followed vet's advice and given him oil followed by second wormer dose so am keeping a watchful eye on him. Luckily, I can see him in the stable from my kitchen window. He's seemed totally normal throughout the rest of the day so I really hope I'm worrying over nothing.

I will contact my own vet tomorrow though to talk about the possibility of a few days of Gastroguard.
 
Are you sure that the ulcers are not symptomatic of something else being wrong? My boy had low grade ulcers 2 grade 2 with one being in the pyloric region. His behaviour was extreme to say the least, so aggressive, howvever we realised there had to be more going on. He had chronic sacro illiac dysfunction and was in a lot of pain, so this caused the ulcers. I also had a mare with suspected ulcers, but she list her 2 day old foal so I would expect a stressful reaction to that, another youngster I have got his head collar caught and had a hasty incident with this that woulpd gave been enough to cause ulcers. I would like to have a reason for the ulcers, which you may of course have.
 
YasandCrystal said:
Are you sure that the ulcers are not symptomatic of something else being wrong? My boy had low grade ulcers 2 grade 2 with one being in the pyloric region. His behaviour was extreme to say the least, so aggressive, howvever we realised there had to be more going on. He had chronic sacro illiac dysfunction and was in a lot of pain, so this caused the ulcers. I also had a mare with suspected ulcers, but she list her 2 day old foal so I would expect a stressful reaction to that, another youngster I have got his head collar caught and had a hasty incident with this that woulpd gave been enough to cause ulcers. I would like to have a reason for the ulcers, which you may of course have.
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Thanks for the reply.

The ulcers go back a few years. After lots of exploration, the vets decided that genetic factors were most probably to blame for the ulcers as his management has always been very 'ulcer friendly' and he isn't at all stress. Apparently, some horses' genetic makeup is such that they don't produce enough mucosa to adequately protect the stomach. Vets advised to manage this rather than try to cure them as Gastroguard would get rid of them short term but subsequent scopes would show they'd returned. He's on a veterinary supplement to increase gut mucosa.

He never had any extreme behaviour with his ulcers. Just what I would have described at the time as mild colic symptoms which went on for long enough for the vet to suggest a scope.

In general, we seem to be able to manage him well with the veterinary supplement and feeding plenty of hay. He does tend to get more 'ulcery' in the autumn usually. (Which vet says can be common)
 
dont know if it helps you long term OP-er but after ulcer medication i have my boy on Coligone and it acts as a lining to his tummy to try and prevent more, his routine is as stress-less as it can be but he is known to worry over little things!

he was on this before ulcer treatment when i brought him, the gentlemen who scoped him said this is possible what kept him comfortable and stop them progressing to a higher grade (he was a 2)
 
Shavings said:
dont know if it helps you long term OP-er but after ulcer medication i have my boy on Coligone and it acts as a lining to his tummy to try and prevent more, his routine is as stress-less as it can be but he is known to worry over little things!

he was on this before ulcer treatment when i brought him, the gentlemen who scoped him said this is possible what kept him comfortable and stop them progressing to a higher grade (he was a 2)
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Thanks. That's really helpful. I wonder if it might help short term during worming too. I might see if I can get some tomorrow.
 
Fiona36 said:
Thanks. That's really helpful. I wonder if it might help short term during worming too. I might see if I can get some tomorrow.
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some times can become hard to get as the makers have had issues in their wear house, how ever use a supplier who buys it in bulk so there is always some in, if your struggling to find it just let me know :)
 
That's really interesting I had never heard of genetic factors being a cause for ulcers. I too think Coligone is good as I do Gastric Aid from Feedmark, mine are on this currently. I think once diagnosed with ulcers it is wise to use a gut comfort/support supplement just as a preventative precautionary measure.
 
YasandCrystal said:
That's really interesting I had never heard of genetic factors being a cause for ulcers. I too think Coligone is good as I do Gastric Aid from Feedmark, mine are on this currently. I think once diagnosed with ulcers it is wise to use a gut comfort/support supplement just as a preventative precautionary measure.
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Yes. I agree. I've tried loads since he was diagnosed but have never really been sure what has worked. The one he's on at the moment is quite pricey and only available through the vets but, to be honest, I don't know how effective it is. He's also been getting aloe Vera from Aloeride for the last few weeks but, again, I don't know how effective this is. Perhaps I need to give it a bit longer.
 
Fiona36 said:
Yes. I agree. I've tried loads since he was diagnosed but have never really been sure what has worked. The one he's on at the moment is quite pricey and only available through the vets but, to be honest, I don't know how effective it is. He's also been getting aloe Vera from Aloeride for the last few weeks but, again, I don't know how effective this is. Perhaps I need to give it a bit longer.
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I can guess which one you mean from the vets and my vet who is really experienced with ulcers in horses is dubious about it.
 
Right. After speaking to vet today, I have been to get some Coligone and have given him some to line his stomach before I pop out again with the wormer. Fingers crossed.

Reading the info on Coligone, I'm thinking of possibly keeping him on it. Shavings, do you give it twice daily or just once?

YasandCrystal, I did have him on Equitop Pronutrin from the vets originally if that's the one you're thinking of. He's now on Exegus but I think lots of vets brand it with their own labels so maybe you're thinking of that one.
 
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