(Un-)Reasonable expectations

pennyturner

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Report of horse out just before dark two nights ago, so straight down there, caught him, and put him back in with his field-mates (no stable down there, so the only place to put him). Too late to go looking for his escape route, but figured he'd be out again, so arranged for someone to be down there first light to look at it.

Cue irate phone call following morning from a neighbour, as he was out again, grazing peaceably on the adjoining footpath. The 'posse' were already down there by the time she called.

Now, this gets me thinking - not sure what part of this I was supposed to handle better/quicker.

Cause of escape was the fall of a large willow tree (not mine - belongs adjoining river-owner) bringing down a section of fence.
Ponies are friendly, calm and confident, so stay in the general area when at liberty, and are easily recaptured. 9 of them stayed in the field anyway.
Tree has now been cut up and fence reinstated.

Is it me, or is her attitude completely unjustified?
 

mel2

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When you say she was irate, was she spouting expletives at you or was she just frustrated/concerned for what could happen or go wrong?

Is she a horsey person?
 

Red-1

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I am with your neighbours on this, although I would not use expletives.

If my horse had got out and I fully expected him to get out again because I suspected the fence was down, I would never find it "too late" to find the escape route.

I think you are lucky that he was grazing peacefully and his field mates were also safe.

We have had a lot of loose horses in our area over the past few years, of the coloured cob type. So far we have had several damaged cars, several injured horses, about 3 dead horses and one dead driver. This year the council have got a grip on the situation, and the horses have been rounded up and PTS when found loose. They too would stay local to their field when out, but they were on an unlit road, unrestricted speed limit.

I doubt your 3rd party insurance would be in force if you knowingly put your horse into an insecure field. If my horse was one of the others in the field I would also be very cross that someone, whose horse was a co-resident, knew the field was insecure and they had not called me so I could sort out the situation for the safety of my own animal and the others too. I also would hold them responsible by negligence if my horse was then injured.

I guess if your field was separated from the road by an outer fence then that would be different? Although from your description that when they get loose, they stay local, I presume this is not the first time the neighbour has had to put up with loose horses?
 
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Merlod

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I think she was unreasonable to be irate in that a horse escaped onto public land - these things do happen occasinally in the countryside (mostly sheep round here) and I assume none of her property was affected/damaged (presumably she didn't know you'd knowingly put the horse back into a non secure field, however if she did then she was not being unreasonable at all.)

I think you were being unreasonable in making the decision to leave it til morning. A patch job with twine or electric tape could have been done by torchlight to hold it until it could be properly fixed.
 
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KittenInTheTree

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Next time take a head torch along and fix the damn fence then and there - we keep a repair kit up at our field in case of emergencies.
 

Clodagh

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I'm with the neighbour. I can't believe you put a horse back in a field you suspected he would get straight out of again.
 

Kat

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You were unreasonable and legally negligent to leave the horses in a field that was not securely fenced. Had there been an accident it would have been your fault.
 

HiPo'sHuman

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I can't fathom putting my horse back in the field knowing the fencing hadn't been repaired, even if it was a temp repair with bailing twine/electric fencing? Anything could have happened. Is there more to it or have I misread/miunderstood the original post?
 

AFB

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Totally with the neighbour. It's never 'too late' to make sure my animals are safe and secure, they are my responsibility after all.
 

Pearlsasinger

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I suppose it depends (a bit) on the local geography. Our fields are surrounded by other fields and would be unlikely to find their way onto a public road - maybe OP's are the same. However, for my own peace of mind, I would have checked the boundary and repaired if at all possible. I did once have to do 'in-hand country' with my Shire mare, who decided that rather than coming in for the November night, she would go visiting next-door's pony. She was hustled into her own stable and the fence mended before she was put out again!

ETA we had to do the repairs in the dark, as we all had to go to work, as usual, the next day.
 

pixie

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We've been out fixing fences at 2am before, after a night rally race car took a wrong turn and went into our fields. Thankfully horses were shilled and just watched on bemused. Would never think to just leave it though!
 

MotherOfChickens

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I suppose it depends (a bit) on the local geography. Our fields are surrounded by other fields and would be unlikely to find their way onto a public road - maybe OP's are the same.

two of my fields are the same-I could never put a horse back in a field without finding and fixing the fault though-you were lucky the others didnt follow (and with ponies that generally stay put, you are lucky until you aren't).
 
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conniegirl

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I have also done 2 am fence repairs to secure horses after a car went through our fence.
Horses were secured behind a secondary fence (electric fencing hastily dug out from the back of the shed) well away from where the emergency services were working.
We also had to put a new water source (big buckets of water) on the horse side of the new fence as thier water troughs were near the broken fencing.
I think we got to bed at 4am and i was out the door at 7.30am to get to work.
I could not have slept if i knew my horses could have gotten out
 

laura_nash

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You were in the wrong and your neighbour is completely justified for being upset (assuming they knew you had been down during the night and not fixed the fence).

There have been occasions when I have left a fence to be fixed to the morning, when the escaped horse is in a neighbour's empty field (who I know and know won't mind) or on the common (which I am a "commoner" for and have grazing rights, and is fenced). I would always find the breach though, especially if other horses were still in the field, what if there was dangerous damage to the fence and another horse came through and seriously injured itself?

If there is any way for the escaped horse (and other horses in the field) to get properly loose then you absolutely have to fix the fence or move all the horses. If there is any chance they could have gotten onto a road where drivers aren't expecting loose animals then you are totally crazy to behave as you did. As others said, leaving aside the total lack of care for the safety of the horses and other people, I doubt your third-party insurance would cover you so you could be looking at a £5million+ bill if they caused a serious car accident.

If the neighbour didn't know you had already been down and was just upset about the horse escaping then whether their attitude was justified depends a lot on the local area and expectations. We are fairly relaxed around here as loose animals are a frequent occurance (I meet loose cows or sheep at least twice a week) and they have to go miles to get to a road where drivers wouldn't expect animals. I used to live in Leeds many years ago and a loose horse there was a death sentence waiting to happen for drivers and the horse.
 

LaurenBay

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I would be annoyed too if the Horse escaped onto my land. I can't believe you would put your Horse back in the field knowing he would probably get out again. I wouldn't be able to sleep not knowing where my Horse could end up! On Monday on the bank holiday the farmer cut the hedges which I like to be uncut to keep the Horses in. Anyway I walked the field and realized there was a big enough gap that the Horses could easily get through. I didn't have any spare posts (used them all fencing off acorns!) so I hopped in the car and drove the 45 minute trip to the nearest tack shop open on bank holiday. In the meantime I taped off the area as best I could and put barrows in the way to stop them getting through. In the 2 hours I was gone I was so panicked they would get out in that time. Luckily the bale of hay I put in the field kept them occupied. There is no way I could have left them til the next day.
 

HorseyTee

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My horses field is surrounded by other fields. However I wouldn't even consider judt popping them back in knowing they'd be out again. Anything could happen in the hours until daylight.
It was pretty irresponsible on your part tbh.
 

pippixox

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As others have said: unless the only way out was into other fields that your horse could temporarily stay in for the night I could never just pop them in, knowing they would go back onto unfenced public land.

I once got a call just as I was putting my baby to bed to say my horses had escaped. It was into a field but that was not fully fenced and had a deep pond in. So I headed straight up there with head torch and baby in sling to catch them!!! I luckily borrowed a friends small field next to mine for the night. But had some tape for a temporary fix if needed. Snapped post was fixed a few days later.
 

pennyturner

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Ok, a few clarifications.

Neighbour who called lives on a lane by the pedestrian access to the field. The horse was not on her garden (or anywhere near it) - he was happily scoffing the grass by a public footpath, nowhere near a road. She isn't horsey.

Geography of the field is such that spotting the escape point in the dark with a torch would be very tricky. It's 12 acres of water-meadow, boggy, uneven, and overgrown. Some days you can't see the ponies, let alone a loose post or broken wire.

I know they stay put when at liberty because we routinely graze loose outside of the field after rides (with supervision) - not because they're getting out all the time.

Just out of interest - those of you who say you wouldn't have put him back (which I get - if it adjoined the road I wouldn't have) - what would you have done with 10 ponies? I do accept that we would have probably found the tree down, but I don't know anyone who could have dealt with it and made the fence good in the dark.

A strand of barbed wire and electric posts as a temporary fence around the problem is the only thing I can think of - but certainly no guarantee that they wouldn't get past it, and a hazard in itself.
 

Pearlsasinger

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I know it would have been a pain but if at all possible, if i couldn't find the escape point, I would have moved the ponies to a secure field/stables. Or I would have checked one end of the field and penned them into it with electric fencing but we use that all the time and always have a power unit available.
 

MotherOfChickens

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head torch on, find problem, electric fence it off if there is no alternative. I rent a similar sounding field in the middle of nowhere, although only 6 acres. when they are up there I either always have a corral up or have stuff to hand to put one up quickly should a pony need it.
 
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