unbalancement and alignment of the foot

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DGIN

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My friends Welsh cob went lame 4 months ago on one of his fronts. Just showing being short. He had nerve blocks and x rays. He was sound when nerve blocked further down the leg and the x rays showed nothing. The vet described it as too much heel just on one foot causing unbalancement. He has been in heart bars and gel pads since as the farrier had to take the extra heel.He is now sound in walk, trot, canter (but still in heart bars) they seem to think he will go lame next summer and need heart bars every year. He is been shod every 4-5weeks and still looks like he needs doing after 3. Has anyone had any experience of this as he can't afford this every year. Thanks
 
Yeh he's doing great still, we have our off days but overall we are getting on with everything we used to (no jumping though, its more my choice not to as he's 18 and i don't want to risk anything going wrong)

I did think people would say barefoot but just wanted to hear other peoples experiences first :-(
 
my horse also went lame (short in his stride) had vet and he had nerve blocks and xrays. vet also said my horses heels are too big on both fronts and his pasterns are at the wrong angle. but he also showed arthritis in coffin joints. he had bar shoes on last week and farrier thinks hes trotting up better already. farrier is quite positive that he can help him but i have to wait for at least another 2 shoeings with bar shoes before i can ride, as he said his feet need to adapt. dont give up !
 
galacasinoking said:
my horse also went lame (short in his stride) had vet and he had nerve blocks and xrays. vet also said my horses heels are too big on both fronts and his pasterns are at the wrong angle. but he also showed arthritis in coffin joints. he had bar shoes on last week and farrier thinks hes trotting up better already. farrier is quite positive that he can help him but i have to wait for at least another 2 shoeings with bar shoes before i can ride, as he said his feet need to adapt. dont give up !
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Crikey! I'm not having a go at you galacasinoking, but can everyone imagine what the response would be if we said "take the shoes off but you won't be able to ride the horse for at least four months until it adapts" ????????????????????

OP shoes are not expected to work for your friends horse and they are also short of money. Sounds like a no-brainer to me -try without them?
 
Having been through the barefoot route with mine i know how beneficial it can be both on the pocket and the horse! He does see it as an option to go barefoot but we just wanted hear other stories. Having had heart bars on my horse for well over 6 months in my opinion they just cover up the problem. Only my opinion and i know heart bars have worked short term in the past for people.
 
cptrayes said:
Crikey! I'm not having a go at you galacasinoking, but can everyone imagine what the response would be if we said "take the shoes off but you won't be able to ride the horse for at least four months until it adapts" ????????????????????
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So what do you do with the sore/lame horses when the shoes come off? I sincerely hope you don't ride them.
There are people who have gone the barefoot route (with previously sound horses) whose horses are still lame after 6 months - should they be riding them?
 
Changes said:
So what do you do with the sore/lame horses when the shoes come off? I sincerely hope you don't ride them.
There are people who have gone the barefoot route (with previously sound horses) whose horses are still lame after 6 months - should they be riding them?
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Are there? Not that I know of Changes. You really have a bee in your bonnet don't you.
Are you a farrier? :D :D
 
If the horse's feet are unbalanced, then the way to fix it should surely be to balance it?

The heartbars are an attempt to bring the caudal foot into play. It's an expensive and inconsistent method.

It's much cheaper easier to remove the shoes and allow the foot to balance itself - as long as the owner and farrier know what they are doing.
 
DGIN said:
Yeh he's doing great still, we have our off days but overall we are getting on with everything we used to (no jumping though, its more my choice not to as he's 18 and i don't want to risk anything going wrong)

I did think people would say barefoot but just wanted to hear other peoples experiences first :-(
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I'm really pleased. I saw the pics on Rockley's blog at the show - you both looked great.
 
Thanks Oberon. Just wanted to see what others thought, funny thing is aswell its the same vet treating the Welsh that saw to ginger.
 
Changes said:
So what do you do with the sore/lame horses when the shoes come off? I sincerely hope you don't ride them.
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We do whatever they can do with no problems on whatever surfaces they can cope on with no problems. I have a grit arena which is excellent for supporting a newly bare foot, and few horses cannot cope fine with flat tarmac in walk for a short while, gradually increased over time. Really difficult ones can be booted and padded for work, though I have done two really severe thin-soled and damaged horses without much use of boots.

Changes said:
There are people who have gone the barefoot route (with previously sound horses) whose horses are still lame after 6 months - should they be riding them?
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Those people should be reported to the animal welfare authorities, they are breaking the Animal Welfare Act. I hope that you have done so.

If a horse is still unsound after six months then there is more wrong than having taken off the shoes. The horse will most likely either have metabolic disease or be on completely the wrong diet and/or management routine for that particular horse.

People who have a horse which is lame without shoes on after six months who cannot or will not provide the horse with the regime it needs to work sound should shoe.
 
cptrayes said:
People who have a horse which is lame without shoes on after six months who cannot or will not provide the horse with the regime it needs to work sound should shoe.
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CPTrayes - I know where you are coming from, but bearing in mind this is a forum where peeps are great at taking stuff out of context etc etc etc.

If they are still unsound after 6 months I agree there is an underlying problem. But the broad 'should shoe' could be misinterpreted.

Supposing the horse is lame because it has a long term unresolved abscess (I have come across such a case - and that was under vet care and they hadn't cottoned on either) or damage to the pedal bone.

People need to understand WHY the horse is lame before shoeing. Only then can they understand the size/complexity/outcomes of the problem they are covering up.

But I suspect your real motivation is that horses shouldn't be left in suffering for that long. And for that I agree totally, but that opens a whole can of worms when doing the job I do, you realise just how high a proportion of horses are in pain more or less 24/7 but are doing a sterling job of compensating/covering it up - and the truth is only revealed at a later date.

Hooves are a window to the horse's health, if they are not healthy then neither is the horse.
 
Lucy I realised after I had gone to bed that I should have had the words "which does not have an underlying veterinary condition" in the middle of that sentence! Thanks for the correction.


It should of course read:


I think that people who have a horse which is lame without shoes on after six months and which does not have any underlying condition to account for its lameness, eg tendon issues, arthritis, abscesses etc, who cannot or will not provide the horse with the regime it needs to work sound should shoe.
 
galacasinoking said:
my horse also went lame (short in his stride) had vet and he had nerve blocks and xrays. vet also said my horses heels are too big on both fronts and his pasterns are at the wrong angle. but he also showed arthritis in coffin joints. he had bar shoes on last week and farrier thinks hes trotting up better already. farrier is quite positive that he can help him but i have to wait for at least another 2 shoeings with bar shoes before i can ride, as he said his feet need to adapt. dont give up !
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the high heels probably caused the arthritis in the coffin joints.
 
My girl's recently been diagnosed with navicular so obviously I'm interested in anything that will stop it's progression/slow it down. Apparently it's an usual case in that it's only in the navicular bone and not the ligaments. She's never really been lame, just slightly short striding.

Without shoes she's always been foot sore, she's now 15 and I've had her 9 years. She's fed a handful of Happy Hoof and Hi Fibre cubes twice a day, turned out all day in a large field on an incline, goes up a stoney track into field and is stabled at night when she'll have a net of haylage. The hacking is on mixed terrain, mainly hills with sandy tracks, stoney tracks and just one tarmac road.

If I was to take her shoes off when would you expect her to not be foot sore and would you give her pain relief?

Any constructive advice welcome.

Thanks :)
 
Tiffany said:
Without shoes she's always been foot sore, she's now 15 and I've had her 9 years. She's fed a handful of Happy Hoof and Hi Fibre cubes twice a day, turned out all day in a large field on an incline, goes up a stoney track into field and is stabled at night when she'll have a net of haylage. If I was to take her shoes off when would you expect her to not be foot sore and would you give her pain relief?

Any constructive advice welcome.

Thanks :)
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I wonder if your girl has multiple event lines? Observe closely next time she is shod - is the white line more than the thickness of the edge of a credit card? Is the sole concave or flat (naturally not carved) and is the frog solid, triangular with no more than a thumb print at the central sulcus? I suspect the foot sore may be due to LGL esp with that diet combo.

If she were mine I'd feed a much lower sugar diet (including dropping the Happy Hoof) and plain (quite possibly soaked) hay with a good quality vit/min supplement (sugar and cereal free).

How long to get her comfortable - how long is a piece of string - depends on how quickly you can find and eliminate your causal factor. Some it is a couple of weeks, some much longer. But you can always boot for exercise if you need.
 
Hi Tiffany, my boy was 17 when diagnosed with navicular, he has been to rockley and is now barefoot and back in the show ring.

i believe after trying heart bars etc that barefoot is the best route to take. Good luck with yours
 
verdi said:
Please explain A, your reasons for stating this and B, your expertise as your comment interests me greatly..
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A = High heels over a long period will either cause the foot to underrun and contract, causing caudal heel pain or in a horse with very strong horn, will cause the palmar aspect of the foot to get higher and higher, and contract, with possible sheared heels becoming a further complication. These distortions of the foot capsule cause huge changes within the foot, crushing the structures within and creating a variety of issues from Navicular, to arthritis, to DJD of the coffin bone.

B = I'm a DAEP - an Equine Podiatrist, some might call me a barefoot trimmer. I specialise in rehabilitating such feet, given the right environment, and care, and time. Its a very rewarding profession.
 
LucyPriory said:
I suspect the foot sore may be due to LGL esp with that diet combo.

If she were mine I'd feed a much lower sugar diet (including dropping the Happy Hoof) and plain (quite possibly soaked) hay with a good quality vit/min supplement (sugar and cereal free).
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I absolutely agree with this advice.
 
LucyPriory said:
I wonder if your girl has multiple event lines? Observe closely next time she is shod - is the white line more than the thickness of the edge of a credit card? Is the sole concave or flat (naturally not carved) and is the frog solid, triangular with no more than a thumb print at the central sulcus? I suspect the foot sore may be due to LGL esp with that diet combo.

If she were mine I'd feed a much lower sugar diet (including dropping the Happy Hoof) and plain (quite possibly soaked) hay with a good quality vit/min supplement (sugar and cereal free).

How long to get her comfortable - how long is a piece of string - depends on how quickly you can find and eliminate your causal factor. Some it is a couple of weeks, some much longer. But you can always boot for exercise if you need.
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Hi and thanks for response.

I'd say her feet are flat, will check thickness of white line when she's shod.
Only shod about every 12 weeks because her feet just don't seem to grow. I'm surprised you saying remove the Happy Hoof, I thought it was a low sugar feed for lammi prone ponies,horses and good doers? She's not had lammi but is a good doer.

Just for info, over the years she's had hay (soaked when she was on box rest) with no hard feed and she was still foot sore.

I'll take some photos of her feet when shoes removed next time.
 
DGIN said:
Hi Tiffany, my boy was 17 when diagnosed with navicular, he has been to rockley and is now barefoot and back in the show ring.

i believe after trying heart bars etc that barefoot is the best route to take. Good luck with yours
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That's great news for you and your boy :) Did your boy have a problem with just the navicular bone or was there damage to DDFT, impar ligament etc?
 
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