unhandled foals please help

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happyhoofs

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looking for some advice, we brought two welsh foals from the sales and have taken on a bit to much to be honnest, and need some advice on handling. they are stabled together and eating hard food. an dont climb the walls when you go in stable to get away, but i cant touch them they just charge around the stable, they are getting bigger evey day i'm worried how we will teach them to lead.
we have owned foals from weaning before but they have never been this scared. i have a new home for them to go together but need to handle and teach them to lead before they go, any ideas please
 
Separating might be an idea because together they are 'strong', will latch onto each other's reactions and may even 'excite' each other to such a state that they will charge around the stable. If alone they will gradually calm down and be curious enough to seek contact. Just enter the stall and stand there ignoring the foal (a bucket of feed in hand helps).
 
Separate them and pair them up with friendly ponies. When you go into the stable and the pony approaches you and allows you to handle him the foal will not see you as such a threat. Go in regularly for short periods of time (and not necessarily to touch the foal) and you will soon find the foal will be approaching you to see what you’re up to - worked a treat with mine. Once the foal can be touched and handled without having heart failure move the pony out and carry on the handling.
 
split them up, then get a headcollar on each one and tie them up , keep an eye on them, but a bit of discipline never hurt anything, just make sure you tie them safely with a safety knot, just in case.
 
I'd just sit in the stable with them and eventually they will come to you, babies are naturally curious - just takes some time and patience I'm afraid! I wouldn't stable them on their own but if you have another friendly youngster/pony then splitting them up and putting with an older horse each would certainly speed things up a bit.

Please don't just stick a headcollar on them and tie them up - you're asking for foal with a broken neck/leg, it doesn't teach them anything about learning to trust people at all - why would you 'discipline' an animal that hasn't done anything wrong except listen to its instincts? The only thing it will learn from it is that being tied up is a bad and stressful thing, if they don't injure themselves, and you've still got to pounce on them to get the headcollar on them - not ideal at all!!!
And if they do go into all out panic mode and injure themselves and you have to try and undo even a tight safety knot with a thrashing horse you could get seriously injured in the process, plus you will be even more scary and dangerous in a foals eyes, and you have the added problem of getting a vet near it if needed - NOT a good idea!!!!!:D
 
Move over... Section A expert here....well..sort of ...know a little bit!
My advice would be to actually get down to their level..safely..not on hands and knees with loads of pony nuts in your pocket and gradually they will burst with curiosity and come to take a nut from your hand. It will take time but being small like them really helps.
Good Luck.
Bryndy
 
Section A expert here also!!! tie them up, they will struggle a bit, but its works every time and to date after many many years, never has a pony been harmed, rather than fanny about with the nicey nicey approach taking weeks its quick over in secs and gets results. I did just the same with my daughters warmblood foal at 6 weeks its done it no harm whatsoever , it taught it respect , now its weaned it get tied up all the time and never moves so no injury, sometimes its easier to do it all at once rather than mess with the nicey nicey approach, but if you have time to fanny about in stables sitting on floors, you go girl.
 
tweedette said:
Section A expert here also!!! tie them up, they will struggle a bit, but its works every time and to date after many many years, never has a pony been harmed, rather than fanny about with the nicey nicey approach taking weeks its quick over in secs and gets results. I did just the same with my daughters warmblood foal at 6 weeks its done it no harm whatsoever , it taught it respect - No it's taught your young horse fear, now its weaned it get tied up all the time and never moves so no injury, sometimes its easier to do it all at once rather than mess with the nicey nicey approach, but if you have time to fanny about in stables sitting on floors, you go girl.
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I much prefer the softly softly approach. I personally think the above method is outdated and causes more harm than good in the long run (would you trust a human that did that to you?) If youngsters are handled correctly from birth the job is much easier but softly softly always wins in the end (OP I know you bought your 2 un handled!)

I also have another pet hate and thats people who refer to their horses/animals as 'IT'.

'IT' is an inanimate object and not a living breathing beautiful horse (or any other animal for that matter) I am not a soppy idiot as I do have control over all my horses - and my youngsters soon learn where the boundaries are and respect my space. I get loads of compliments both from people who have bought one of my youngsters, the yards they go to live on, my vets, farrier and my horse dentist saying how beautifully behaved and whay lovely temperaments my babies all have so I must be doing something right.
 
you can sit in the stable if you like and if you have plenty of time.

But if you just bite the bullet and quickly ( with out any faffing around) get hold and put a headcollar on with a some rope dangling so it is easy to get hold of.
once the head collar is on keep hold and stroke the foal all over, keep stroking until the foal quietens down. you will find after 15 mins or so the foal will stand happily to be stroked all over, a good scratch i find is a good one, once the foal is happy to be stroked all over and is calm, let him/her go and leave the stable. Go back in an hour or so, take hold of the dangling rope and do it again, as long as you don't hurt them, they soon learn they have nothing to fear, some foals will come round straight away, others will take a few sessions.
 
Holly831 said:
I much prefer the softly softly approach. I personally think the above method is outdated and causes more harm than good in the long run (would you trust a human that did that to you?)
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I disagree. A wild foal needs to be at least able to be handled - and quickly. Heaven forbid something should happen to it (referred to as it as I don't know the sex - touchy!). Another thing to bear in mind is trust takes time. You could do the softly softly and then tie the foal up and it freak. You have then taught it that humans are sneaky and have a bigger hurdle to overcome :(

Get them halter broken, then work on gaining their trust ;)
 
i bought a filly in june with the same problem. although i didnt get her from sales i got her from a private seller, she had nothing done with her and human contact was non existent! i stabled her in the biggest stable possible alone and sat with her with a good book and the radio and a bucket of feed next to my feet so she had to come near me to feed. gradually she got closer and closer and started to sniff me ext. i slowly started to move my hand near her and eventually touched her on the neck and then removed my hand slowly (always talking to her so she was getting used to my voice) after about 2-3 days i was able to give her a quick stroke on the neck and shoulder. it does take time. eventually i was allowed to touch her face and clip a lead rope on the head collar. then after that i tried to get her to take one step towards me with the lead rope on. and as soon as that step was took a released the pressure off the lead rope and praised her.

now she is out in a field with others and comes to call. i can walk her around (and trot) and is starting to get to grips with letting me pick up her hooves.

it does take time and alot of patience but it is so worth it when you get the results. the ones that are untouched so to speak, i find are the ones that give you the most love when they learn to trust you. and i am sure that if you stick at it they will both make lovely little ponies for you.

good luck with it xxx
 
I would separate & I agree it wont hurt to get a headcolar on them. Then I would use a quieter approach, as foals are curious it will get the better of them, more so when they are on their own. Tying a horse down does nothing to improve their trust in you as they natural instinct is to fight against restraint/pressure. Saddly though they are going to have to go through a bit of tough love as you need the headcolar on. What worked for us many years ago (never been in the same situation since) was to let him come to us, catch him by the plaited bit of baler twin left on the headcolar & just scratch & groom him with our hands. Took 2 days by which he could be walked round the stable from there he was walked & grazed in-hand for another 2 days. After that he was in a paddock with another youngster who was only too eager to come over for a pat & tit bit & he followed by example. I have known another one though that fought like hell against it, the only difference was she was older & she took months to come round. She ended up tethered otherwise she would have spent months in the stable & once loose in the paddock it took 4 people & a board (so you did not get kicked) to catch her back up. After that they tethered her & would just sit & wait for her to come over. She was a nightmare as she just fought all the way.
 
Its all in the scratching technique, once you find their spot - putty in your hands. In the meantime, quietly without fuss go into the stable often put headcollars on the floor convenient for a sniff, mess about a bit with a few pony nuts rattling and dropping a few. My daughter who is ace with young foals always crouches down and they always come to her. So getting down to their level is good,blowing back at them when they are blowing at you is good.

I would not be worried about seperating them at this stage I had two scaredy weanlings together and only "weaned them" at 18 months, they were fine.

I always find a large neighbour's son handy for grabbing a foal of that size while I put on the headcollar, usually once you do then put a hand on them they become quiet if you use the scratch approach and stay in their comfort zones. It really only takes a few days and they become more confident and trusting if they are not scared.

On the subject of tying up, all of my foals tie up and stand. I use a long rope threaded through a tie ring so the rope provides a bit of weight on the headcollar but do not tie up. The foal is safe, very rarely becomes upset and "thinks" he is tied up but no danger.

I am by no means a fluffy horse person and never have been but was horrified to see in a Reiner Klimke book they tie warmblood weanling s up and leave them to fight it out with a wall of concrete or tree.
 
The reason separation was suggested was to take away the crutch of the other foal. When they are not used to humans being with another just keeps the herd instinct longer & they can wind each other up. It is a fine balance as you dont want to come across as a preditor. It is also easier to give them attention when they are on their own & it need only be until they are happy to be with humans. Once they are allowing themselves to be scratched & held then put them back together. If you are rough with them they will remember.
 
I would separate them for now until you have managed to handle them more.
If you have a sensible pony try one with that.
We find the best way is to just stay with them in the stable and eventually they stop charging round and stand still, usually bum towards you. If you quietly persist in scratching their rumps or any bit other than legs you can reach eventually they settle and allow contact. Over a few hours most become tame enough to get a headcollar on them, and once on, just keep touching them finding their itchy spots.
If they are really resistant build a smaller pen with straw bales and once the foal is in the narrow part use your own body language to ensure it doesn't come out backwards, just lean over the bales (good protection for you from kicks) and touch them..
It will be nigh impossible if you do both together, and once you have reached the headcollar stage start leading them round the box, you find you can usually move a foal if you tug sideways off balance a little, expand that into walking, you can give gentle little pokes in their tummy to keep them moving.
It is possible tojust catch them and force handle them and it does work, but if you want a less stressful method so does this way.
 
Another vote for the split them up.
The 'softly softly' approach will take time but you will reap the rewards later as they will learn to trust you implicitly.
Years ago I bought an unhandled pb arab yearling filly who had never been touched.
We turned her out into the small paddock next to the house and every day I would go and sit on the ground in there with a good book. It didn't take long before she would let me put a halter on and she never needed a lead rope to lead her - she just followed. Eventually could go into the field or stable when she was lying flat out and she wouldn't move. Could even sit between her legs and she wouldn't move till I got out of the way. When I eventually broke her in it was so easy that it bordered on the unbelievable.
Patience will pay off.
 
micramadam said:
Another vote for the split them up.
The 'softly softly' approach will take time but you will reap the rewards later as they will learn to trust you implicitly.
Years ago I bought an unhandled pb arab yearling filly who had never been touched.
We turned her out into the small paddock next to the house and every day I would go and sit on the ground in there with a good book. It didn't take long before she would let me put a halter on and she never needed a lead rope to lead her - she just followed. Eventually could go into the field or stable when she was lying flat out and she wouldn't move. Could even sit between her legs and she wouldn't move till I got out of the way. When I eventually broke her in it was so easy that it bordered on the unbelievable.
Patience will pay off.
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Time may not be available to the poster quote "i have a new home for them to go together but need to handle and teach them to lead before they go, any ideas please"
 
I have just fetched 4 unhandled yearling (rising 2) colts (although I would say loading was a days job!!!) to be honest I left them in together in a smallish stable and found two would come forward and two did the wall of death, I did pin them down and catch them and left headcollars on, it took a few days of just ignoring them and mucking out round them until the two stopped flying round like loons and then within a couple of days I could get a hand on them all, I had to corner the nervous two, but just patted and scratched and didnt attempt to catch hold of the headcollars and within 10 days I could lead them and tie them up, I havent had any problems with them pannicking over tying up. There was one who wouldnt be caught so when we eventually got him back in loose he remained in for another 10 days on his own until he improved, he will now be caught still with a softly softly approach.

I left the top door shut so they couldnt get hung up on headcollars, they are in an american barn system so could see everything going on.

Within two weeks I could turn them out and catch them with food in a small paddock, the more friendly drew the less friendly in with them. I didnt separate them as they were running as a herd so took their boldest from the most friendly of the bunch.

They have been with me for 2 months now and pretty much are completely different and much more forward and catchable, however within 10 days they were completely different people. Time, patience and a little bit of putting my foot down worked a treat!!!!!!
 
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