Unknowingly bought my Mare in foal; What recourse is available

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jondaro

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Hi, looking for any cases where a dealer has sold a mare in foal and had to recompense the buyer for the additional costs incurred.

We bought from a dealer a wonderful mare they had recently brought over from Ireland and found that whilst totally suitable for the original general purpose we bought her for, 2 months it was confirmed that at the time of her selling her, she was already 5-6 months in foal. The dealer reluctantly has offered to have the mare back but she is perfect for what we want her, plus we have gotten very attached to her so we dont want a refund but we do want some financial recompense for the costs we have and will incurr up to the point we can sell the foal (ie once weaned) as we simply don't want to have another horse. We have even offered the dealer to have the foal and would reduce the amount of damages by a significant amount but all they will offer is to refund our money and us to return the mare.

Our solicitor advises that the legal claim must be based on 'damages in lieu of recission' and that we have a very strong case but I cannot find other cases where this has been used. Has anyone had experience of something that must be reasonably common occurence. Also when researching the dealer's liability , it appears that there is no code of practice or other legislation to specify their liabilities and responsibilities as there is for say the motor trade where the difference between buying from a private seller are distinclty less protected than when buying from a trader/dealer.

Any help on this would be greatfuly appreciated.
 
Hmm, the seller passed her on in good faith and you didn't realise she was in foal for a further two months? I think he's been remarkably good to offer you your money back.

If your solicitor is not a specialist equine one may I suggest you have a chat to a specialist equine solicitor, or if you are a Gold BHS member you could run it by their legal bods.
 
Good luck! Yes, it is a very common occurrence, particularly with horses from Ireland - I can give you a dozen examples. But by the time you have paid legal fees, had all the stress and the hassle of fighting it out, you may find it would have been cheaper just to swallow the fact that she is going to have a foal and sell the foal at weaning to try and recover some of the costs.
 
I have known of one similar case, and the mare was returned for the amount paid back to the seller. I don't think you'll easily be able to claim expenses from the dealer tbh. Did you have her vetted at the time of buying her?
 
Yep, best way forward for you is to use the sale of the foal to recoup losses. Dealer has been good to you to offer to have the horse back, if you want to keep her you make your own arrangements.
 
If the dealer has offered you your money back and to take the mare back from you, then what else are you expecting!?

If it's your decision to keep the mare knowing she is in foal then it is your responsibility.

The dealer has done nothing wrong. He sold you a horse fit for purpose, and did not know it was in foal and would have no reason to check if she was not showing.

It's people like you that ruin things for everyone else. Just use some common sense.
 
I'd be very happy, two for the price of one can't be bad.

Can't believe you are thinking of going after damages when the horse you bought (did you have it vetted, surely vets know by now to check thoroughly any mares coming from Ireland?) is perfect for what you want. Have a bit of patience and next year you will get your nice horse back after the weaning.
 
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I'm no equine law specialist, but I'm guessing that if he's willing to offer a full refund for the mare that you won't be able to get damages for the cost of rearing a foal. Legal precedent may prove me wrong though -- either way, good luck!
 
I'd be pleased as punch to get two for one tbh...you may get a blooming good foal out of the mare..what's your beef?

So you not going to be able to use the mare for a while...she could just as easily get injured and put out of action, such things do happen.

The horse was sold in good faith and it sounds as though the dealer has been very fair with you to offer your money back.

My cousin bought her mare from a dealer who had recently shipped her over from Ireland, she was unknowingly in foal too...she had a gorgeous filly who is now eventing with her new owners.
 
jondaro said:
Hi, looking for any cases where a dealer has sold a mare in foal and had to recompense the buyer for the additional costs incurred.

We bought from a dealer a wonderful mare they had recently brought over from Ireland and found that whilst totally suitable for the original general purpose we bought her for, 2 months it was confirmed that at the time of her selling her, she was already 5-6 months in foal. The dealer reluctantly has offered to have the mare back but she is perfect for what we want her, plus we have gotten very attached to her so we dont want a refund but we do want some financial recompense for the costs we have and will incurr up to the point we can sell the foal (ie once weaned) as we simply don't want to have another horse. We have even offered the dealer to have the foal and would reduce the amount of damages by a significant amount but all they will offer is to refund our money and us to return the mare.

Our solicitor advises that the legal claim must be based on 'damages in lieu of recission' and that we have a very strong case but I cannot find other cases where this has been used. Has anyone had experience of something that must be reasonably common occurence. Also when researching the dealer's liability , it appears that there is no code of practice or other legislation to specify their liabilities and responsibilities as there is for say the motor trade where the difference between buying from a private seller are distinclty less protected than when buying from a trader/dealer.

Any help on this would be greatfuly appreciated.
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If the mare is as lovely as you say I would count myself very lucky she will have an equally nice foal tbh, especially as it wouldn't have cost me anything other than vets fees.
 
Maesfen said:
I'd be very happy, two for the price of one can't be bad.

Can't believe you are thinking of going after damages when the horse you bought (did you have it vetted, surely vets know by now to check thoroughly any mares coming from Ireland?) is perfect for what you want. Have a bit of patience and next year you will get your nice horse back after the weaning.
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This.

You may even get a really decent foal;)

I've never heard of anyone suing for damages for a BOGOF before, OK, inconvenient, but really not the end of the world, when is the foal due?

A mare doesn't actually have to be off all work when she is nursing, I know several people who manage to do a bit of light work in preparation for weaning. By the time some of my foals were 4 months they were staying in with a companion and the mare was back in work, neither suffered from it.

Hope all goes well with the foaling.
 
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I would give serious consideration to sending the mare back and accepting the refund. I have known more than one mare bought (unknowingly) in foal, which turned out to not be such a quiet, sweet ride after the foal was born. If you're happy to deal with that possibility, then great, if not, then think seriously about what the dealer has offered you.
 
I too bought a lovely Irish pony - fantastic for the job we wanted her for and then mid Jan - found a wee extra one in the stable ! She has turned out to be the most gorgeous foal, and now I'm feeling very lucky to have had her and kept her, as mum had a very nasty kick in the field on Saturday just gone, that broke her leg and unfortunatly we had no option but to PTS. So enjoy your foal, enjoy the experiance and as for recourse then all you can do is speak again to the dealer as see if you can come to a deal or send her back or enjoy the joys of foalhood !!

Best of luck whatever you decide !
 
Well if you end up with a healthy foal and a lovely horse i would just be happy with that, i bought a yearling who we came to realise was in foal she foaled very badly just over a month before she was two lost the foal and cost me 600 pounds in vets fees.

She also couldnt get up as the foal was so large it had compressed the nerves in her pelvic area and we had to get the fire brigade to lift her with a harness and she took alot of nursing annoying thing is the person we bought her from knew his stallion had been at her, just hadnt mentioned it to us.

Even with all this we were told it wasnt worth the hassle trying to recover any money we were just happy the filly survived and had to accept it as one of those things.
 
Trinity Fox said:
Well if you end up with a healthy foal and a lovely horse i would just be happy with that, i bought a yearling who we came to realise was in foal she foaled very badly just over a month before she was two lost the foal and cost me 600 pounds in vets fees.

She also couldnt get up as the foal was so large it had compressed the nerves in her pelvic area and we had to get the fire brigade to lift her with a harness and she took alot of nursing annoying thing is the person we bought her from knew his stallion had been at her, just hadnt mentioned it to us.

Even with all this we were told it wasnt worth the hassle trying to recover any money we were just happy the filly survived and had to accept it as one of those things.
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Sorry to hear of your experience, the simplest thing would be to return the mare but she is perfect in every other respect and unlike inanimate objects such as say a car, you get an attachment so it is not as simple a decision.

At least you are not in the camp as some posters who seem to think it is perfectly acceptable practice for dealers to undertake selling without having any further liabilities, wonder if they would have the same thoughts after buying a car from a dealer only to find it was knocked together from 2....whats the problem, you bought the car with 50000 miles on it and the back end has only done 30000.... again my point being the difference in responsibilities between the seller being a dealer and a private seller.

No wonder the term 'horse dealer' has such historical bad connotations to it.
 
I would love to hear the outcome, I sent my mare to a professional yard and she got preggers [it was immaculate conception I understand] I asked the trainer to buy M and F as it was going to cost me a lot, actually £3K, but I had no response.
 
A BOGOF is nothing like a cut and shut car!!

What, you think all dealers should to pregnancy tests?

We bought a mare who dropped a foal, a lovely pedigree clydesdale.. the breeder/dealer was well miffed as she'd been scanned not in foal...

Offered them the foal at a reasonable price, they turned it down.

So we ended up with two very lovely clydesdales.

Swallow your pride and send her back or keep the foal. Sue for damages and buying mares is going to become a legal minefield!
 
OP wanted to know what recourse they have, not whether we would all keep the foal if it were us. I'd suggest getting some legal advice and if your solicitor has told you there is case law ask him for the details of the cases so you can look them up.
 
At least you are not in the camp as some posters who seem to think it is perfectly acceptable practice for dealers to undertake selling without having any further liabilities,
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There is a huge difference between selling a dangerous horse and selling a wonderful but unknowingly in-foal mare.

A BOGOF is nothing like a cut and shut car!!
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^ I fully agree.

Swallow your pride and send her back or keep the foal.
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^ Again, I fully agree with this.
 
blueneonrainbow said:
OP wanted to know what recourse they have, not whether we would all keep the foal if it were us. I'd suggest getting some legal advice and if your solicitor has told you there is case law ask him for the details of the cases so you can look them up.
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The dealer has offered to take the horse back. It seems morally wrong to me, to turn down this offer and then sue the dealer.
 
Faracat said:
The dealer has offered to take the horse back. It seems morally wrong to me, to turn down this offer and then sue the dealer.
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My issue is not with the mare, it is around the actual cost that has been and will be incurred owing to the mare being in foal; All we will seek will be the directly incurred costs, which if the dealer had either taken the mare back or not sold the mare before it was apparent that she was in foal, would nevertheless have been incurred. Given that the seller is a dealer, surely they would be in a far better position to recoup the expense if they took the foal back once weaned. Added to that, surely there are moral arguments towards a dealer having knowledge of what they are selling or accepting some responsibility when an event such as this occurs.
 
Faracat said:
The dealer has offered to take the horse back. It seems morally wrong to me, to turn down this offer and then sue the dealer.
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Echo this.

Sorry but for goodness sake the horse has not been found out to have some degenerative disease that was hidden from you!! It was not something he could have known so not deliberate.
It has been happening forever and will continue to do so.

The whole society we are in for suing people over everything is horrid and it is what is causing silly insurance prices and a lot of horsey places to go out of business

Please just either take his offer of money back or welcome the foal and go from there
 
Think yourself lucky I've only had my horse for 6 months and just found out he has ringbone in both fronts. I've just got to accept it and do what's best for my horse who is only 11. I've been on the recieving end of being sued and it's not pleasant. I wish you the best in whatever you decide to do.
 
Caveat emptor = buyer beware!

The dealer will say that he sold the mare in good faith not knowing she was in foal. This is probably true.
He has offered to take the mare back and refund your money, more than fair.

Assuming that you had the mare vetted then the vet should have noticed if she was showing signs of being pregnant. As he obviously didn't, and not all mares do show until later in pregnancy, then perhaps you should be suing him for being negligent in not examining the mare for pregnancy?

I do not think you have a leg to stand on - solicitors will take your money just because they can.

Cut your losses and send the mare back (and it is true many are much quieter when in foal) or grin and bear it.
 
jondaro said:
At least you are not in the camp as some posters who seem to think it is perfectly acceptable practice for dealers to undertake selling without having any further liabilities, wonder if they would have the same thoughts after buying a car from a dealer only to find it was knocked together from 2....whats the problem, you bought the car with 50000 miles on it and the back end has only done 30000.... again my point being the difference in responsibilities between the seller being a dealer and a private seller.
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What a ridiculous statement!

That's why we have horses vetted to make sure all is as it seems. I take she was vetted?
If she was, then take up issue with the vet. If not then It's down to you.

What extra expenses have you incurred?

If you send her back there won't be any. And if you keep her you could cover any expenses with the sale of the foal. If the mare is as good as you say in all probability she will have a decent foal.
I take it you have insured her? Any problems should be covered by that.

Sorry but to me it sounds like you are just trying to make money out of this situation.

Either accept the bonus foal with good grace or send the mare back and recoup her purchase price.

There's an old saying 'Never look a gift horse in the mouth'
 
My mare came to me unknowingly pregnant and although shocked I embraced the experience and have a wonderful yearling filly who is better than I could have ever afforded to buy in my wildest dreams.

I would not have changed a thing for the world. Another part of lifes rich tapesty.

Either send her back and the dealer can have himself a BOGOF or get on with it. If the mare is everything you want who's to say the foal isn't going to be even better........? If it's not sell it on at weaning but enjoy your mare and the faol in the meantime.

And as others have said you can still ride her whilst pregnant and also once the foal is born you just have to do things differently for a while.

Good luck and read lots of book and speak to your vets re foaling courses. I met some lovely people through my suprise foal :D
 
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jondaro said:
My issue is not with the mare, it is around the actual cost that has been and will be incurred owing to the mare being in foal; All we will seek will be the directly incurred costs, which if the dealer had either taken the mare back or not sold the mare before it was apparent that she was in foal, would nevertheless have been incurred. Given that the seller is a dealer, surely they would be in a far better position to recoup the expense if they took the foal back once weaned. Added to that, surely there are moral arguments towards a dealer having knowledge of what they are selling or accepting some responsibility when an event such as this occurs.
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So why did you not ask your vet to include a pregnancy examination before you bought her? Surely that would have stopped all this happening and anyone with a grain of sense should always have an import scanned for pregnancy as part of the vetting to be on the safe side. Of course, if you didn't have her vetted properly as a mare then that puts the blame for buying an in foal mare in your court not the dealer's as he/she was selling in good faith, it isn't his place to have mares pregnancy tested at all if he is selling as a riding horse and he has no knowledge of previous history.

The analogy of a crooked car is ridiculous of course, this is a breathing animal not an inanimate object and it was up to you to make sure the necessary checks were made before purchase. I actually think the dealer is being fair but he will have an extra horse to sell later for almost free so you're actually lining his pocket.:)
 
This was born to a mare that was bought in January, not expected to be in foal.

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Her mother (foal above's granddam) was sold some months after the mare came to us, apparently not in foal, but the very next morning the new owners went into her stable and found a foal. Much consternation from both old and new owners!
 
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