Unsuccessful op - what next?

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Merlod

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Ok, not completely unsuccessful as the pony is sounder than he was but not 100%. He underwent an annular ligament desmotomy a year ago, whilst they were in there I think they ‘tidied up’ some other bits – suspensory ligament. No complications post surgery, did all the rehab walks etc. But he’s still not right to ride so has been resigned to light hacking on the flat which is a shame as I was really hoping this would work and he hates being left when the others go out riding. Clutching at straws he is currently barefoot to see if this helps in any way, shoes have been off since Dec - he has good, strong feet.

Insurance has run out, but I am willing to scrape together and fund it myself it but I’m not really sure what happens now? Obviously I will talk to my vet, he did have steroids injected about 6months ago which made no difference – but what else can be done – more scans and another op? Bionic leg? I’d love to hear your thoughts and experiences with this type of injury. I'm not expecting a world beater, it would just be lovely if he could hack with the others and maybe do a little prelim!
:)
 
It must be the morning for annular ligament desmotomy discussions - I was just about to post about mine and where we go from here although we are no way near as far down the line as you.

My vet said to me on Friday that another operation is out of the question if that helps at all. It would be another £2.5k minimum to spend on a horse that has already had £5k spent on it.

My mare had her annular ligament cut and manica flexoria removed in middle of Jan and was given instructions of box rest for 3 weeks, restricted turn out 3 weeks then back on board to start walking. Horse still pretty lame at 6 week check up, resting the leg all the time and struggling to put any weight on it when opposite foreleg picked up to pick out feet. Vet was not very positive about it and said there was no improvement whatsoever. We gave her a jab in the tendon sheath (hydrocortisone & HA I think) and the swelling has gone down and she seems sounder but not 100% yet. How long do they take to come sound and does anyone know how long the jabs take to work?

My issue is that we are nearly at the end of the insurance money and the vet has said don't throw good money after bad. If she's not mended with £5k of insurance money, there is little point throwing any more money at her. I totally agree but do want to know what time frame to be working to. I also want to know whether I should just chuck her out in the field and forget about her for 6 months/a year and just let nature take its course. I was never told to hand walk her but was told she needs to start being ridden by 3 months after the operation.

Sorry for hijacking post… hopefully someone can help!!
 
tbh sounds to me like retriement time. IF you've ever had a niggling soft tissue injury you will know that sometimes they just don't go away and there is always a degree of pain.
 
Just wondered could the horse just have developed an abnormal gait due to mechanical lameness? This is what the vet thinks was the problem with my horse when he was 'hopping' onto his other leg after he first did his lateral branch suspensory. This was initially diagnosed as scar tissue was seen on his near fore branch and from what I recall was told it was calcification but was free floating so not of any serious detriment. His hopping on the right rein was evident on this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UslBFCyrcQ and the faster he went the more obvious it was. I started to sit up, bring his quarters under him and slow down the trot and its not very noticeable anymore, sometimes you cant see it at all.

This is a definition of mechanical lameness from Merck:

A horse is said to be lame when its normal stance or gait is changed by a problem in one or more of the limbs, the neck, the trunk, or the quarters. Lameness is not a specific disease but may indicate a disorder in the musculoskeletal system. When unaccompanied by pain, the lameness may be mechanical. A horse with mechanical lameness may develop an abnormal gait as a result of scarred and thickened connective tissues or of an abnormality of movement produced by a syndrome such as stringhalt. It is important that a veterinarian properly distinguish the cause of mechanical lameness.

Another definition of mechanical lameness from Wikipedia:

Mechanical lameness is caused by a physical abnormality, such as scar tissue, that prevents normal motion of a limb. Mechanical lameness does not cause pain. Classic examples of mechanical lameness include upward fixation of the patella and fibrotic myopathy, but any type of adhesion (often secondary to scarring during healing post-injury) or fibrosis can cause mechanical lameness.
 
Did you get his back done before you started riding again? If there has been a lameness they will over compensate and end up just walking that way.
 
That’s interesting that they don’t re-operate, did they give you a reason? I was just curious if this was something they’d do in case something in the area was causing the lameness to persist. I can’t quite remember the time frames but for a long while I remember thinking ‘oh god he’s actually worse from the op’ but time seems to have done him well. To a degree.. just this little niggle left. Now you’ve mentioned the manica flexoria I remember he had that whipped out too so they’ve probably had a very similar procedure. I hope your girl heals well :)

I’m glad you mention that applecart14 as I had wondered that myself, it would make sense. Thanks, deffo worth thinking about!

Hm, I don’t think retiring will do him any good, he’s with me for life anyway so I’d like to try a little harder before sentencing his remaining 15 or so years to a retired field ornament, especially as he loves to be out and he doesn’t appear to be in pain (compared to before the and during the op) and is very enthusiastic which is great, as I said above it’s just this remaining niggle which may tie in with the mechanical lameness.

I think I’m going to go back to my vet, and ask him to give us all the options as if money were no object and see what we have left! Maybe I shall set up a go fund me (just kidding!)
 
I didn't actually equi because the increase in work was so gradual and the workload has remained low and with all the other things to worry about but in hindsight I should have had that done as he usually has the chiro yearly, I will get on to that asap!

Just musing, but would hydrotheraphy be beneficial here, or any other complimentary therapies anyone has experience of?
 
I think the vet's point with re-operating for me was that it was spending money that I don't have!! I think he genuinely has my best interests at heart and, in our case, is it worth spending much more money on a 16 yr old slightly lunatic hunter?!! Despite being told that my horse should be able to go back to hunting, I am of the opinion that it is probably pushing it a bit to expect her to stand up to my kind of hunting. She is also quite buzzy out hunting and doesn't understand taking it steady. I think the vet also thinks along these lines hence why he said don't throw good money after bad.

Saying that though there is quite a change in the leg since having her jab as the swelling has gone right down.

I would like to be able to get mine sound enough to find a new home as a happy hacker or low level RC horse. I hope that turning her away from now until late summer will do the job.
 
Merlod said:
I didn't actually equi because the increase in work was so gradual and the workload has remained low and with all the other things to worry about but in hindsight I should have had that done as he usually has the chiro yearly, I will get on to that asap!

Just musing, but would hydrotheraphy be beneficial here, or any other complimentary therapies anyone has experience of?
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If you can get it i would its always beneficial even just for fitness. He won't be able to walk funny in the water.
 
Merlod said:
Hm, I don’t think retiring will do him any good, he’s with me for life anyway so I’d like to try a little harder before sentencing his remaining 15 or so years to a retired field ornament, especially as he loves to be out and he doesn’t appear to be in pain (compared to before the and during the op) and is very enthusiastic which is great, as I said above it’s just this remaining niggle which may tie in with the mechanical lameness.
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Agree.

Go with the vets, they are the ones that know your horse, if they are prepared to do all they can to help then go with it. Not everyone can retire a horse, not everyone has the facilities to do so, and not everyone can afford two horses. Sometimes one horse owners can spend the money getting their horses right without having to resort to PTS or retire as so many on this forum seem to urge these days. Sometimes there is not enough effort on vets parts and owners.
 
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I think you do have to consider that there might not be anything else the vets can do to get him sound though. So although you might not think retiring will do him any good working him might not be an option. Depends how 'not right', and compared to pre-op. Good physio is never a bad idea after a lameness though either so that and a chat to the vets I think are in order at the moment, if steroid didn't work before it is unlikely to make any difference now.

Sorry applecart but you don't keep a horse going if you have done everything you can and it still isn't right just because you don't have the facilities or funds to retire them. You do the right thing by them and PTS.
 
I understand where you're coming from Ester as a lot of people do try to keep their horses going regardless but I think applecart is meaning horses like mine who aren't a complete wreck, just not 100% - fine as a light hack but it's more of trying to go from a light hack to him being able to do a bit of light schooling and some off-road hacking and many people wouldn't see it worth the expense of vets fees but as I am keeping him I would like to try all I can but at the end of the day if all we can do is lightly hack then lightly hack we will!
 
ester said:
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Sorry applecart but you don't keep a horse going if you have done everything you can and it still isn't right just because you don't have the facilities or funds to retire them. You do the right thing by them and PTS.
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Sorry if it came across that way Ester. I wasn't suggesting that to be fair. What I was saying is that retirement is an easier option for some people but for those that haven't the facilities to be able to retire or those than can't afford two keep two horses then those are the people perhaps that will go all out on a limb to get their horses right again as they really have no choice especially if the horses aren't a complete car wreck, like my horse and like Merlod has explained with her horse.

A lot of people would rather retire than put the money in, especially if they have run out of insurance, whereas I feel I have no choice but to keep going for as long as I can providing the vet is in agreement and its in the horses best interests. If all I can do is hack my horse for the rest of his day then I will do so. If I couldn't ride again then I really don't think I could bear to part with him and retire him, especially as the vet has said his type would go down hill really quickly, so the only option left to me would be to keep him. I just hope I wouldn't end up resenting him.

I honestly hand on heart don't think I could pts an animal just because I couldn't ever ride it again, but respect those that can do so because that is their own personal choice. I've had my horse for eleven years. Those that say "the horse has never been right from day one" should understand that I have fought tooth & claw for my horses health and he has had thousands and thousands spent on him. Having lost four horses in short succession (under seven years) through no fault of my own, you can maybe begin to imagine how much Bailey means to me and how precious he is. I can afford to spend money on him as until recently was insured for most things, and as I live at home and have no bills/HP/loans/mortgage can afford to spend money on getting him right.

If all Merlod can do at the end of her day is to hack her horse, then whilst that is unfortunate for Merlod (as she would like more) and many would say 'what a waste of time' Merlod and I would probably consider it a waste of life to PTS/retire if there was an alternative however poor.

No doubt I will get backlash for saying this but
 
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I think plenty of people do happily keep a horse retired/field sound/light hacking even if they would quite like to have one in full work :) and I don't think most would consider fully exploring treatment options so the horse can do a bit more would be considered a waste of time by most either :).

Merlod it will be interesting to see how having the shoes off goes, I'm a big fan as it got my chap right and walking is quite key so hacking out ideal then. Mine was 19 at the time so did think retirement might have to happen and anything above light hacking was definitely a bonus, I was so chuffed to go out and do a prelim test again! (He's now hunting so in fact there were quite a lot of bonuses!) Good luck with the vets.
 
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