up date on oz and his ks

[1964]

got intouch with willersley and dr svend is on holiday so got to wait.
but been working on his mental state, by puting his saddle on his back but without girthing it up, been really good, started to girth up sunday and doing it tighter gradually, been good up untill yesterday, did everything the same and he went mad in his stable so back to square one.
spoken to my vet and he has said now that they dont want to do the operation and want to refer him to a larger clinic that do these ops more regular, he has mentioned some one called John Walmsly, from lithook equine hospital in hampshire, anyone heard of them and thoughts on them, but i have told vets that i have been in touch with willersley and they are going to send oz's xrays there for them to have a look as my vet thinks that about 7 vertabra need removing.
really scarey.
but willersely have said they wont touch him while he has a mental issue, feel like im loosing battle, and i dont know if i have the guts to get back on him after ther op if we get the mental issue sorted.
bit of a mess of a post but im all confussed and dont know what to do any more
i love my boy and he is only 8yrs old so young and has the most lovely cheecky temperatment, i love him so much and it hurts think that i may have to retire him.
be gratefull of anyones thoughts as if i should keep going or retire him
anita

 

[seabiscuit]

I would be patient and wait for Svend to get back. Dont worry about what the other people at Willesley are saying, dont send off the xrays, make sure that Svend personally sees your horse. How much longer is he on holiday?
Am not impressed by Walmesleys/Liphook.

 

[1964]

he is off next week aswell, the problem to take my horse for him to look at is the cost of transort as i dont have my own and used up my allowance on the insurance, would cost quite a bit to take him there just fir him to look at him,
my insurance money is going rather quick as alot wasted at leahurst

 

[seabiscuit]

Where abouts are you based?

 

[debradley]

Hi there - be patient and wait for Svend. If you pm Beth she'll give you a bit more info; but Svend has a very unique way of doing this operation which does not require the removal of all the offending vertabra, but instead removes every other one. Just wait till Svend's had a look and then make a decision from there on his recommendation.

 

[seabiscuit]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi there - be patient and wait for Svend. If you pm Beth she'll give you a bit more info; but Svend has a very unique way of doing this operation which does not require the removal of all the offending vertabra, but instead removes every other one. Just wait till Svend's had a look and then make a decision from there on his recommendation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree- Now I know that this is defamotary but it has to be said- I know of a few horses operated on at that hospital and they were all retired from a riding career. Ok, maybe that is just unlucky that I only know of those 3 horses. At Willesly its all success stories- a ) because Svend does it differently to others and b) because the horses are put on a intensive exercise program straight after the operation, while other hospitals tend to have a really mild/virtually non-existant exercise program post op, which means that the scar tissue in the back never regains its elasticity. The intensive exercise post op is vital so that everything stays elastic and supple.

 

[BethH]

I completely agree with all the others - my vet sent a letter to my insurers saying that Ryan had to have op or be put to sleep as behaviour so dangerous he was becoming impossible to handle, Svend operated on him and I would guess after op when your ned stops being in pain, that after a few weeks of problems he will realise it doesn't hurt and start to calm down. Svend expects the horse to be problematic as that is one of the main symptoms of Kissing Spines. Liphook will charge you double what Willersley quotes and Walmsley has retired so only comes back to do odd ones and charges for the priviledge so I understand????

Don't put your ned under the pressure of saddle etc as he is likely to still be in pain but teach him to long rein/lunge in a pessoa as that is part of the rehab and it is best if he can cope with that so you don't have behaviour issues after op when introducing it as a new bit of kit, also it will strengthen him in the right places for the op. Hopefully if you are careful and take it slowly he should accept a roller and I would concentrate on that rather than saddle.

Please don't be put off but talk to Svend. If you need to pm me then please do and I will give you my tel no if you want to chat, it is a horrible experience and I am happy to provide as much support as you need along with all the other guys on here who have answered your post.

Take care and let know how you are getting along.

 

[GreedyGuts]

Suprised they couldn't offer more at Leahurst - it is such a good hospital for most things. What vet saw him there?
Willersley has a great rep for this surgery, and when it works it is amazing.

Best of luck with him, I can't imagine how awful and frustrating this much be, particularly when he is so young.

 

[sundance]

please wait for Svend. My boy had nearly 12 months off while I dithered and saved, ran out of insurance on diagnosis!!,then took him to Svend. Op has been a great success. This time of year may well be worse due to cold weather and artritis but as Beth says, just lunge/pessoa in the meantime. Cant understand your mention of them not willing to do till mentally right, maybe I missed a previous post

 

[1964]

hi sundance it was the secutary at willersley who said that svend would even concider the op while he had a mental issue,
you mention lunging and pessoa the same as bethH but he wont even accept a roller on his back as that was the first time he went mad and then the saddle, so all i can do is just lunge him, but even with that now he is getting very exspresive and swearing at me and his back end is going on him slightly so i feel that the steriod he had in his back a couple of months ago is beginning to wear off. and im worried that soon he isnt even going to accept his rug being on his back, he is already begining to get uncomfertable with that,
well got another week to go before i speak to svend but i as yourself am beginning to run out of insurance money i have 2,500 left, just hope if i go through with it that im going to have enough to do it

 

[seabiscuit]

Have you got an appointment ready booked with Svend? I would just leave the horse alone in the field for now, doing stuff with him is clearly not doing either of you any favours.

 

[1964]

no nothing booked with svend yet my vets are going to send his xrays and notes to them for svend to look at when he gets back from his holiday, i think your right about leaving him in the field alone but im one of those soft owners who worrys about him geting cold being a TB only got a summer sheet on, and its geting alittle cold now, but i surpose only have just over a week left to be-able to speak to svend

 

[seabiscuit]

Best of luck oxwold,hope things work out for you...

 

[BethH]

If he is that touchy about his back then agree leave well alone, could he come into stable unrugged if he is getting cold as at least he would be out of any chill wind. If you are able to lunge without roller then anything to try to keep him with some fitness is good. Secretary told me not to visit for 3 or 4 days after op as not pretty sight, Svend told me to visit 3 hrs after surgery and Ryan looked great so only take advice from Svend. In some cases if the horse is so mentally damaged that even after op he would have problems then Svend wouldn't want to put the horse or owner through it, but it is very common for a KS horse to be incredibly touchy about his back, also TB's can be very over sensitive so it may be that yours doesn't deal with pain as well as the next horse and that is something to discuss with Svend to make sure they get the pain relief right. I think it may mean you need to be careful to be more sympathetic and take rehab slightly more slowly although still consistently after op, i.e., take longer at each level of work to ensure your horse is comfortable, I can easily go through my rehb with Ryan as got him working straight away after op but because of behaviour issues did things slightly differently to allow him to cope mentally.

What sort of behaviour is he displaying as Ryan was very good at throwing legs in the air and also became incredibly spooky, he used to jump even if someone walked out of a stable or opened the door, and used to do this really nasty rolling bronc which was pretty unpleasant in hand ( not nice ridden either come to that!)!

I guess I am just trying to say please don't panic, this is truly awful to deal with and especially so if your horse is playing up with pain. The op cost me £2500 at Willesley but was quoted £5-6k at liphook! You will have some other costs as you will need various vet checks and physio treatments as well as the cost of the journey. You are supposed to take them back for a 12 week check up but I trusted my local vet so he did that for me and it saved a fortune.

Please keep posting on here if you are feeling down or having problems as you will get lots of positive responses to help keep you going. By the way my ned is still out 24/7 as it keeps him flexible and he is only in a lightweight rug, the weather here is still just about mild enough to get away with it.

 

[debradley]

Hi there before the op my girl could do nothing. She had got to the point were her back legs could only bunny hope so she was in a field for about 2 months, although she did come into her stable overnight and it was summer, but even she didn't want her sweetitch rug on as she was too frightened about it being done up. My advise, can your vet give you some bute to carry him over and just leave him alone and let him chill - at the moment give him a break and just do what he feels comfortable with, without making him explode then hopefully mentally he'll come down a bit. It just sounds like most of what the others have gone through mentally and they are just expecting everything to hurt them (which it does), and then you're the one trying to get them to do stuff that really hurts. Give him a little break it wont do him any harm and just be his friend and let him learn that you're the one that understands and that he can trust. I know it's frustrating, but keep your chin up and just be very careful when you're handling him, he needs you in one piece at the moment.

 

[1964]

thanks beth and deb, i feel so much better having read your words.
john walmsely from liphook phoned me this evening to ask me about oz, because my vet had spoken to him he was very nice and siad that it will cost me leaving the clinic about 3,000. but having listened to what everyone on here has told me im going to wait for svend next week.
oz is in pain again i think his steriod is wearing off now and he is swearing at me when i lunge him his hind legs are going on him and yes he strikes out wiyh his front right leg all the time when i lunge him, and he is very exspresive with his tailand really grumpy, but when he had the steriod he was fantastic his tail stayed in the same place he didnt stike with his front leg and he didnt swear at me he was really free moving,
he has a light rug on at the moment and stays out in the evenings but comes in oin the morning to have a feed and some haylage and a sleep, and has his rug off and a fleece put on, which he is just accepting at the moment, but saying that he is better with me doing it than any one else as he is trusting me, this jphn walmsley has told me to put him back on bute, but to do it 3weeks and 1 week off then back on again and to just leave his back alone as much as possible,
will put him back on the bute when spoken to the vet on monday and then back to his lungeing.
i cant thank you all enough for all your advice, i rave about this site down the yard
THANKS X

 

[BethH]

To be honest, I felt the whole thing was such a rollercoaster ride it was just mentally shattering, I felt completely exhausted the whole time.

I think your horse does trust you more than anyone else and that you should carry on trying to be the one to deal with him as it will be you he will work for with the rehab if you go for the op. He clearly trusts you to allow you to deal with him when he is hurting so much. Ryan's steroids lasted about 6 weeks before it wore off and I have to say that about 2 minutes after he had the initial anaesthetic in his back he moved like I couldn't believe, never looked quite as good since!!!!!!!!!! Lots of horses seem not to manage longer term on the steroids so don't be disheartened this seems fairly normal from my experience.

Talk to Svend and then if you are happy with both surgeons you can decide which way to go from there. Keeping all crossed for you and let us know how you get on next week

 

[sundance]

what mental issues does he have? that is the bit that i dont understand. If he objects to a roller and saddle than I think that means that he is in pain and not insane!! mine hadnt been ridden for an age and I didnt lunge him that often so dont worry too much. Lets face it, Svend needs to see your horse, not meaure his fitness. If you explain that you have no insurance he may do it cheaper for you. the £2500 should be enough for the op, but you may need to check the cost of the digital xrays and ultra sound with them. To be honest, you havent that many options left so I would go with it, they take credit cards, I know that for sure!!!

 

[BethH]

The only thing I would say is that because even with work Ryan was considered poorly muscled and obese, Sven had to rush the op a bit more than normal as he was worried about the effects of an unfit horse under general anaesthetic for that length of time. Not trying to scaremonger at all just from my own experience if you are able to have even minimal fitness or even better a thin horse which is hard when they don't work, then it is better for their wellbeing during op.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[debradley]

You know where I am if you need to pm, but just wanted to say good luck and we're all thinking of you - your not on your own, we know what your going thru. You know what you need to do for your boy, you know him best. Good luck, let us know how you get on.

 

[1964]

hi thanks for your messages again, i will try and start lunging oz again tomorrow he is back on bute now twice a day to keep any pain away but if he isnt happy with the lunging i will stop as i dont want to cause him any distress.
looking forward to monday as svend is back and i will be on the phone first thing, thanks for all your thoughts
anita and oz xx

 

[Bozzy]

My boy was diagnosed by xrays 6 weeks ago, had cortisone injections and my vets coming back out tomorrow for a follow up. Having pm'd a few people on here to hear their experiences, I spoke to Willesley and my vet regarding the op and my vet has said he will forward on his xrays to Svend after he's seen him tomorrow.

Thankfully my boy is ok ridden wise (he is a bit nappyout hacking and has a rearing issue though I don't think that's pain related, he is massively spooky though) and the injections have hardly made any difference in his way of going. He is however incredibly sore to touch through his whole back.

I'm hoping to take him up to Willesley as soon as possible though speaking to his secretary, she said we'd have to wait 8 wks after the injections anyway before having any examination.

Keep us updated with how you get on, where abouts are you?

 

[1964]

hi just phoned willersley to see if my vets have sent on my horses details and he hasnt so im not very happy, so have to wait longer for my vet to send them, but i will not be doing anything with my boy untill feb 08 because we only have an out door school where i keep him and its not in use during the winter months as its not an all weather unfortunatley, which means i wont be able to do his after care so will have to wait till next year unless i move him to a different yard to do his rehab.
i live in telford shropshire.
will keep you updated

 

[debradley]

Just to let you know that I have absolutely no riding facilities where I keep Honey and just have a small area set up by electric fencing as a manege. I was able to to all of Honey's rehab work, you don't need any special set up just lots of dedication. Don't panic too much it's not that daunting.

 

[machannah]

Get your horse to Willesley, I am in the great position of living very close and they are the best in the area and Svend is possibly one of the most useful vets you will ever talk to. Hes honest, upfront and open, however always works with you and not against/or for his own benefit

I once had my horse shod there, and a horse had been driven all the way from East Sussex just to get to that clinic!

It has a great reputation for a reason, whilst not the greatest place to spend a day, watching the mix of horses turn up there is incredible and how they are worked with on site

I would also not lunge your chap if he is that resistant, if you want to keep him moving etc are you able to walk him out in hand rather than lunge on circles etc which will ask him to do more??

Good luck with it all though