Update - EMS/Cushings/Laminitis

[Birker2020]

Hi I had the vet out last Thursday afternoon with regards to my mare increased lameness.

He carried out numerous checks including looking at her standing still, hoof testers (no response) digital pulse (not raised) and trot up with flexion tests on front legs.
He watched her on the lunge, twice in both directions in walk and trot and in a straight line on both surface and hard concrete. She was very lame on the concrete in trot, 3/5ths.

He said she does not have laminitis, he has ruled this out 99.9% certain, but due to her frog support over the toe area the hoof testers couldn't show any definitive pain response as they are too thick. But based on all his clinical findings he says he is very confident she is not exhibiting lameness due to laminitis or has any laminitis symptoms. I didn't think she had but wanted to rule it out.

With regards to Cushings, he says based on clinical findings he is almost certain she doesn't have that but he took blood to send off to the lab. I got a voucher for the ACTH test so I am just paying for the postage and taking/handling of the sample. I am waiting for the result but we are both certain it will be negative for cushings.

He said she is still showing pain due to coffin joint arthritis in the near fore. So we discussed the Arthramid in more detail and also Osphos. He said that Osphos can be used at the same time in conjunction with Arthramid if I choose to do so, it's currently around the £360 mark. After a lot of discussion and toing and froing by me, I decided to go with the Arthamid and if this fails try Osphos so she can be retired on this if she can be kept paddock sound.

Hoping to get the results of the ACTH test tomorrow due to the bank holiday but I feel very sure it will be negative.

 

[Birker2020]

Amazingly interesting that when the people who scream 'Get her checked for Cushings/Laminitis' are the ones that are absent now I've been proved correct.
It what I find most amazing about this forum. "Good news Birker" would be nice.

If I'd come on here and for my update said yes the vet has said she has sub clinical laminitis and she has dreadful results for her ACTH test I would have those very same people say "I told you so" in less time than it had taken me to type the sentence!

 

[paddi22]

I don't think anyone is hiding on you, or to be honest even particularly cares if they are proved right or wrong for just providing their own experience or opinion to a total stranger about a horse they haven't seen just in case it might be some use?

Cushings is a very common issue in horses of a certain age or with certain symptoms, so it's very logical for people to suggest it. my own horse tested positive even though I was sure it wouldn't, and I pushed to get the test due to people telling me on here to do it, even though I was sure it wouldn't be.

I really hope your horse doesn't have cushings and it turns out to be something different. best of luck with your arthritis treatments too.

 

[Birker2020]

I really hope your horse doesn't have cushings and it turns out to be something different. best of luck with your arthritis treatments too.

Thank you

 

[PurBee]

Just throwing out a suggestion Birker, as you mentioned thick sole so hoof testers werent much use - could it be a ‘false’ sole issue? In some the shedding/wearing of the sole is minimal, they build up thick soles...we think ‘great thick sole sound hoof!’ - but it can cause lameness issues in a few if the ‘live sole’ is impeded in growth due to a really thick hard layer of ‘dead sole’. There can be infection/abscess brewing between the layers causing lameness. Have you had abscess issues?

Wondering if farrier is worth nattering to at next visit?

 

[TPO]

I think its more the way that/the tone in which you've posted as applecart, hopscotch and now birker is why people dont engage with you. Post #2 illustrates that to a degree.

I dont think anyone on here has EVER wished ill on any horse and I'd imagine that every poster is pleased when any horse gets a clean bill of health.

Personally despite being on this forum for 16yrs now I've never seen any *smug* "I told you so" regarding illnesses. More relief that someone has a diagnosis and can hopefully start successful treatment for whatever it is.

I hadnt seen your original post, sometimes things get missed. Likewise I didnt see this thread until now and I've checked the forum since you first posted. I sometime forget that you are applecart/hopscotch, whos posts I try to avoid because of all the historic behaviours, hence opening this but post 2 has reminded me.

The forum as a whole has always been welcoming and supportive of people who join in and offer support, experience and opinions not just when they want something from it and throw their toys out when they dont get the attention that they want

 

[Birker2020]

I think its more the way that/the tone in which you've posted as applecart, hopscotch and now birker is why people dont engage with you. Post #2 illustrates that to a degree.

I dont think anyone on here has EVER wished ill on any horse and I'd imagine that every poster is pleased when any horse gets a clean bill of health.

Personally despite being on this forum for 16yrs now I've never seen any *smug* "I told you so" regarding illnesses. More relief that someone has a diagnosis and can hopefully start successful treatment for whatever it is.

I hadnt seen your original post, sometimes things get missed. Likewise I didnt see this thread until now and I've checked the forum since you first posted. I sometime forget that you are applecart/hopscotch, whos posts I try to avoid because of all the historic behaviours, hence opening this but post 2 has reminded me.

The forum as a whole has always been welcoming and supportive of people who join in and offer support, experience and opinions not just when they want something from it and throw their toys out when they dont get the attention that they want

 

[Birker2020]

Just throwing out a suggestion Birker, as you mentioned thick sole so hoof testers werent much use - could it be a ‘false’ sole issue? In some the shedding/wearing of the sole is minimal, they build up thick soles...we think ‘great thick sole sound hoof!’ - but it can cause lameness issues in a few if the ‘live sole’ is impeded in growth due to a really thick hard layer of ‘dead sole’. There can be infection/abscess brewing between the layers causing lameness. Have you had abscess issues?

Wondering if farrier is worth nattering to at next visit?

No there is nothing wrong with the sole. In fact I put wrongly that she has thin soles as I couldn't think when put on the spur of the moment why she had pads and had forgotten, it's hard to remember sometimes. It was the farriers suggestion. As she has coffin joint arthritis any impact on hard surfaces will hurt, so the pads are designed to prevent as much concussion as possible. It's just that the vet said he couldn't get a response from the hoof testers as obviously she has pads on which you would expect. She's only had them on 5 weeks today after a long break without having pads (early last year I believe) and she is being shod tomorrow.

The vet has always said how good the farrier is, on xray her feet are in perfect balance and she has the strongest feet of most of the horses on our yard. I always seem to get positive reactions with people saying how good her feet look when I've had the farrier.

 

[windand rain]

Must admit I was somewhat surprised at the comment as I have never thought this place as anything other than supportive but it shows how people interpret things I am pleased you have found what its is not but not sure if you now know what it is

 

[Birker2020]

I think its more the way that/the tone in which you've posted as applecart, hopscotch and now birker is why people dont engage with you. Post #2 illustrates that to a degree.

I dont think anyone on here has EVER wished ill on any horse and I'd imagine that every poster is pleased when any horse gets a clean bill of health.

Personally despite being on this forum for 16yrs now I've never seen any *smug* "I told you so" regarding illnesses. More relief that someone has a diagnosis and can hopefully start successful treatment for whatever it is.

I hadnt seen your original post, sometimes things get missed. Likewise I didnt see this thread until now and I've checked the forum since you first posted. I sometime forget that you are applecart/hopscotch, whos posts I try to avoid because of all the historic behaviours, hence opening this but post 2 has reminded me.

The forum as a whole has always been welcoming and supportive of people who join in and offer support, experience and opinions not just when they want something from it and throw their toys out when they dont get the attention that they want

I'm not going to engage with this line because this is EXACTLY what you want and you thrive on as has been so often proved in the past with you and the others and I am so very through with that.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Amazingly interesting that when the people who scream 'Get her checked for Cushings/Laminitis' are the ones that are absent now

I've only just caught up with this.

I'm one of several folk who over the years have suggested that you get Bailey checked for Cushing's, only to be told that your vet is sure (without taking bloods to check the ACTH levels ?) that he hasn't. A vet is very foolish if they they declare that any horse can't have Cushing's just by looking at them.

I'm glad that he has now had bloods taken. I hope that his lameness improves and he is more comfortable soon - 3/5 lame means he is currently rather sore. As I've mentioned to you before, I'm a big fan of Arthramid, but my horses, though they responded well, were not as lame as that when they were treated with it. I hope it works for Bailey.

 

[meleeka]

Amazingly interesting that when the people who scream 'Get her checked for Cushings/Laminitis' are the ones that are absent now I've been proved correct.
It what I find most amazing about this forum. "Good news Birker" would be nice.

If I'd come on here and for my update said yes the vet has said she has sub clinical laminitis and she has dreadful results for her ACTH test I would have those very same people say "I told you so" in less time than it had taken me to type the sentence!

Blimey, give some of us a chance! I have only just seen this thread. Strange that you even bothered with bloods if both you and your vets are so certain she doesn’t have Cushings?

 

[Birker2020]

but not sure if you now know what it is

Yes I do the vet has confirmed yet again it's coffin joint arthritis.

She is being treated on the 16th April with Arthramid. Because she has suddenly gone down lame I had the vet out to see as I didn't think it was related to the coffin joint arthritis.

Last Thursday evening at 8.30pm my heart stopped when I had a call from the YO. Luckily it was nothing major but I'd turned her out earlier, a staff member and another livery had gone down the field to put a rug on the horse next but one to her and spotted her running in endless circles distressed. The staff thought it was due to her fly mask that had fallen over one ear so kindly took it off.

She stopped running around but then started marching incessantly back and forth and in circles. So I was rung and drove down and got her in. She had been out at night for almost a week as I'd turned her round the previous week. It has made me wonder now if this is what has aggravated her CJ arthritis, obviously something has suddenly made her become quite lame and this would make sense and tie in with when she first got worse lameness. So maybe she has been doing this every evening when the yard has gone home and it only happened to be spotted luckily on the night I got the call. As soon as the weather is better the whole row of horses will be going out at night which will mean she will settle rather than the two that are two paddocks away from her. She obviously feels a little vulnerable

 

[Birker2020]

Blimey, give some of us a chance! I have only just seen this thread. Strange that you even bothered with bloods if both you and your vets are so certain she doesn’t have Cushings?

I did it for one reason and one reason only. So I can say I've done everything. And because it only cost a minimal amount because of the voucher.

 

[milliepops]

this is a weird thread, in the last thread you said

I'm wondering if she may have EMS or Cushings. The vet has always ruled this out going on her history and appearance. How do I go about getting her tested (thinking of doing it when she goes in to the vets for the day). Could she have mild laminitis?? Is it possible to have laminitis but not display any signs???

people answered agreeing yes it was possible from what you had said and it was wise to treat as such while you were waiting and that a test was a good idea. it's a bit weird to come out on the attack after that

Anyway I hope the arthramid helps, your horse sounds pretty uncomfortable.

 

[windand rain]

The hard ground and stressing could be the problem then aggravating the arthritis. My old girl has fetlock arthritis she pulled up lame on Sunday due to the hard ground. She is fine again but had been belting around with the babies the day before so guess hers was a trip or rutted bit of ground. I hope you can get him right

 

[Birker2020]

this is a weird thread, in the last thread you said


people answered agreeing yes it was possible from what you had said and it was wise to treat as such while you were waiting and that a test was a good idea. it's a bit weird to come out on the attack after that

Anyway I hope the arthramid helps, your horse sounds pretty uncomfortable.

I'm sorry you don't know the back ground and I am not going to comment other than say thank you. Whatever I do say I will get jumped on and my mental health is too fragile to go through all this again, I nearly had a breakdown previously, I can't put myself through this again. thanks.

I did wonder if it was possible for a horse who really is not exhibiting ANY of the symptoms of laminitis to have very very mild laminitis or Cushings even though I doubted it. Again just to rule everything out and do my very best for my horse who I love so very very much

 

[Birker2020]

The hard ground and stressing could be the problem then aggravating the arthritis. My old girl has fetlock arthritis she pulled up lame on Sunday due to the hard ground. She is fine again but had been belting around with the babies the day before so guess hers was a trip or rutted bit of ground. I hope you can get him right

Thank you. I really don't think it's helping.

 

[ester]

this is a weird thread, in the last thread you said


people answered agreeing yes it was possible from what you had said and it was wise to treat as such while you were waiting and that a test was a good idea. it's a bit weird to come out on the attack after that

Anyway I hope the arthramid helps, your horse sounds pretty uncomfortable.

Exactly, will remind myself not to bother again.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm sorry you don't know the back ground and I am not going to comment other than say thank you. Whatever I do say I will get jumped on and my mental health is too fragile to go through all this again, I nearly had a breakdown previously, I can't put myself through this again. thanks.

I did wonder if it was possible for a horse who really is not exhibiting ANY of the symptoms of laminitis to have very very mild laminitis or Cushings even though I doubted it. Again just to rule everything out and do my very best for my horse who I love so very very much

 

[Birker2020]

Exactly, will remind myself not to bother again.

Oh here we go again. You just cant help yourself can you? Why can't you just be pleasant?

 

[ester]

I haven't been unpleasant? I posted on your previous post to try and help as did others, regardless of any of the history you have on here.
It's not then nice to be told you wished no one had responded to your previous thread anyway.
Surely it's hardly a surprise that your post is going to make people think they just won't reply in future as you'd prefer it that way?

 

[Birker2020]

It's not then nice to be told you wished no one had responded to your previous thread anyway.

I did not say this!! You put words in others mouths and make it up as you go along.

I did appreciate your help. It's just a shame it wasn't then followed with 'exactly I will remind myself not to bother again' comment.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Perhaps draw a line under this thread, Birker2020. You must be very worried about your horse, and it has made you go off on an unwarranted attack on people who have been trying to help.

You've been good company on HHO recently - Beswick horses and such, and it would be a pity to lose that.

 

[Birker2020]

Perhaps draw a line under this thread, Birker2020. You must be very worried about your horse, and it has made you go off on an unwarranted attack on people who have been trying to help.

You've been good company on HHO recently - Beswick horses and such, and it would be a pity to lose that.

Incredible.

 

[TinseLeneHorse]

Thanks for the update. Hopefully you have a better idea now of what's going on with your horse. Mine is still lame. Vet is back tomorrow and I think the next step is a visit to the clinic for nerve blocks and x-rays.

 

[Birker2020]

Thanks for the update. Hopefully you have a better idea now of what's going on with your horse. Mine is still lame. Vet is back tomorrow and I think the next step is a visit to the clinic for nerve blocks and x-rays.

Yes I'm glad I called the vet as it put my mind at rest re: the lameness. At least I'm not looking at it originating from anywhere other than coffin joint which is good. The vet said he could feel an effusion I think he called it which originates from the coffin joint.

Wishing you luck later with your horse, do keep us updated.

 

[Hollylee1989]

Have you tried danilon at all? (Much more palatable than bute). Sending lots of healing vibes ❤

 

[Birker2020]

Have you tried danilon at all? (Much more palatable than bute). Sending lots of healing vibes ❤

Hi Hollylee1989, thanks but my horse is fine with bute and has been on it for a number of years without a problem.
Thanks for the healing vibes x

 

[Hollylee1989]

Hi Hollylee1989, thanks but my horse is fine with bute and has been on it for a number of years without a problem.
Thanks for the healing vibes x

That's great if you're doing well with it, keeping everything crossed for you x

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Oh here we go again. You just cant help yourself can you? Why can't you just be pleasant?

I can only suggest that you ask yourself the same question! I have no idea whether I replied on the original thread or not but you are *definitely* going onto my virtual ignore list. FGS, grow up!