Update on pony viewing.. photos of hooves, is it laminitis

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Field04

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Went back to view the pony again today. Was left on my own with the pony while the owner went out. This gave me a good opportunity to brush him and clean him up a bit, well as much as I could with the limited equipment I had. I also took him for a walk in hand and rode him (bare back as the saddle was too small) down the country lanes. He was very sweet and really felt a connection with him over the couple of hours I spent with him.

However, took photos of his hooves after I managed to get most of the mud off, and I don't think its good news. I think it may be lami, but need someone who knows more about it to see. I am gutted if it is, as I don't think I could take him on when my other pony needs to eat lots of hay to keep her weight up.

Or any other views on if it would be possible would be welcome.

Thanks
http://s895.beta.photobucket.com/user/quartz85/library/hoof
 
I thought ridges/rings indicated nutrition changes.

I know my friends TB mare who was in poor condition when brought had similar rings, which have all now grown out and no lami ever.

Are they in all 4 feet?
 
I think its only a concern when they start off close together at the front of the foot then widen apart at the back which shows uneven foot growth which is a sign of lami,
kate
 
Obviously hasn't got it now as he would be lame. Those rings are not really typical lami as are not very marked and are regular. Usually you get some deeper 'event lines' and a difference in the angle of the hoof wall. However, the underneath shots show a very poorly balanced hoof and hard to tell with all the mud but possibly some separation of the white line. Probably a pony you would have to manage as though it were lami prone and not just throw out on the grass willy nilly.
 
Yes, all four feet. But he does not show any other signs, that I could notice in the time I have spent with him that is!!!! Ie. the way he stands, moves, lets you pick up his feet.
 
Wagtail said:
Obviously hasn't got it now as he would be lame. Those rings are not really typical lami as are not very marked and are regular. Usually you get some deeper 'event lines' and a difference in the angle of the hoof wall. However, the underneath shots show a very poorly balanced hoof and hard to tell with all the mud but possibly some separation of the white line. Probably a pony you would have to manage as though it were lami prone and not just throw out on the grass willy nilly.
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Yes the poor things feet are in bad condition, but the owner admitted he has not see a farrier for at least 4 months.
 
I had one pony with hooves like that who was a voracious eater! The grooves were more pronounced than those in the photograph though. She simply would not stop eating and I had to watch her weight all the time. Not laminitis as such but, because of the eating disorder, she definitely was in danger of getting the disease and had possibly had it in the past.

But that is just one owner's experience of one pony. She eventually had to be pts with a compaction which may be totally unrelated.
 
F got lots of lines while going barefoot/diet changes etc though they can be indications of sugar sensitivities tho not lami per se (arent the right shape really I think for lami)

pic 6 shows an interesting balanced hoof.
 
ester said:
F got lots of lines while going barefoot/diet changes etc though they can be indications of sugar sensitivities tho not lami per se (arent the right shape really I think for lami)

pic 6 shows an interesting balanced hoof.
Click to expand...

Thats interesting, as last time he saw the farrier they took his shoes off to go barefoot.
 
Field04 said:
Yes, all four feet. But he does not show any other signs, that I could notice in the time I have spent with him that is!!!! Ie. the way he stands, moves, lets you pick up his feet.
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The lines would not worry me then.

However if he does turn out to need less grazing than your other pony (which lets face it any pony you get, is more like to be a good doer, than a poor doer like you already have), grazing muzzle him.
 
He is living in a tiny mud paddock, and the couple have divorced so the horsey dad has moved out (hence why having to sell the pony) and the kids have lost interest. Hasn't even been taken out of the paddock for over and month, and in all honesty I think its probably longer. Plus he is on his own. :(
 
I bought a pony with very deep ridges and bruising up hoof wall, obviously had lami and when i took the plung and bought him the farrier told me he still had some LGL

That was september. He is now living out in the day and broken to drive, doing 10 miles a week. Not had a fay of lamesnss and i will just treat him as i treat any pony, a possibly laminitic
 
Hmmm, I wouldn't say lammi necessarily, BUT the last picture in the bottom RH corner indicates something strange going on as the frog is not in the centre of the hoof and appears displaced.

Personally, if you like him, and you obviously do, then I'd be inclined to have the pony vetted before you buy him - that way you'll know for sure if something is amiss.
 
MiJods is seeing the same as I was, there is quite a large deviation laterally I would be interested to know why that is currently there. It might indicate that he has an issue higher up.

foot1_zps2080ac8e.jpg
 
Can't see photos but did you check for heat or pulse? If he had lami now I'd imagine you would have felt it riding and would be footy.
I tend to treat all ponies as lami prone anyway so if I was looking at a pony it wouldn't put me off necessarily and none we, havé looked after having had it previouslt gavé had it again with correct management but I'd probably get x rays ahead of purchase
 
the hooves look ok to me and would indicate change of diet ie grass coming through etc, but they look ok shape etc. The frog I cant work out if its the angle of the picture as the first frogy one looks kind of ok with a bit of a trim and possibly the last one looks a bit squew. Can you either get a vet out or get your farrier to visit with you(I trust my farrier and they would give me sound advice, it would be worth paying one if the owner agrees to come and see the ponies feet etc).

I agree keeping a good doer and a skinny is blooming juggling(done that) but as suggested muzzle etc and if you really like this pony which sounds like they are good otherwise I would strongly vet/farrier and then make a decision. Finding a good pony is hard but just double check on the hooves and in long run a vetting could save you the heartache.

I am no expert at all.Good luck let us know what you decide. Interesting!
 
I would be very concerned by the persistent nature of the ripples.

You get an event line with a change in diet/wormer/vaccines/illness etc and that is normal.

The 'event' interrupted the production of the hoof tissue at the coronet and caused a weakness in the attachment.

What you are seeing in those pics is constant interruptions and weakness. There is something causing constant event lines for that horse.

The hoof is telling us that all is not well metabolically and I really would not just dismiss that.

If the horse is sound (on ALL surfaces) then it is just a warning...but please heed that warning.

This is a chronic laminitic hoof - ignore the flaring and look at the ripples.

chronclami.jpg


I would treat the horse like a laminitic - restrict grass, keep lean, feed some balanced minerals and some gut aids and work it like a dog :o.
 
ester said:
MiJods is seeing the same as I was, there is quite a large deviation laterally I would be interested to know why that is currently there. It might indicate that he has an issue higher up.

foot1_zps2080ac8e.jpg
Click to expand...

I agree with this, that is a very asymmetric foot and I would normally expect that to be caused by a gait problem, possibly a subtle one.




Personally I would also be extremely concerned that the rings have not stopped forming even in the middle of winter when his nutrition should be stable. I'd be concerned that the pony has something like Cushings.
 
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for interest this was Frank's foot post deshoeing, the ripples aren't quite so defined and only occurred in front. He has never had lami/is not particularly grass sensitive but has always been kept busy/restricted grass anyway.

246674_10152134569320438_1845676560_n.jpg


He does have a slight deviation on one hind... as far as I can remember it has always been like this even the previous 7 years shod but it is nowhere near as big as the one pictured.

199330_10152134571515438_1628282711_n.jpg


I don't think I would buy the pony without a vetting for soundness OP.
 
esther - it is also common to get ripples from mechanical stresses in an over long wall. You see many shod and newly deshod and remodelling hooves with ripples and angle changes - you often see it mostly around the quarters and associated lumpiness to the coronet.

Such mechanical ripples are likely (although not always) to be wavy rather than straight and they are indicative of a hoof wall under stress.

It's not as common to see mechanical ripples to a long term bare hoof as the hoof would normally shed what it doesn't want and thus the stress to the hoof isn't there.
 
What could have caused the frog to be off to the side like that? Injury, bad trimming?

I feel sorry for this pony. Sounds like he doesn't have much of a life.
 
Oberon said:
esther - it is also common to get ripples from mechanical stresses in an over long wall. You see many shod and newly deshod and remodelling hooves with ripples and angle changes - you often see it mostly around the quarters and associated lumpiness to the coronet.

Such mechanical ripples are likely (although not always) to be wavy rather than straight and they are indicative of a hoof wall under stress.

It's not as common to see mechanical ripples to a long term bare hoof as the hoof would normally shed what it doesn't want and thus the stress to the hoof isn't there.
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yup :) I'd always go with what you say not me ;) When I went back and found the pics they were less ripply than I remember (none left now.. growth line gone :D)

given that this pony has only been recently deshod do you think that mechanical ripples are not the case here because the lines so straight?
 
ester said:
yup :) I'd always go with what you say not me ;) When I went back and found the pics they were less ripply than I remember (none left now.. growth line gone :D)

given that this pony has only been recently deshod do you think that mechanical ripples are not the case here because the lines so straight?
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The problem with hooves and horses is that there are rarely any straight answers :o

Often it's a case of adding up the clues to help point us in the right direction.....

The ripples in the OP's pony look metabolic to me - and in cases where that is a remote possibility and we are risking lami, then it's worth erring on the side of caution.

Prevention is better than cure, after all :).
 
I thought, in a laminitic hoof, the rings/ridges DIVERGE at the heel. My Welshie when I bought him had similar. He's never had it and there were no signs whilst the hooves grew out. He was 5 when we got him.
 
brighteyes said:
I thought, in a laminitic hoof, the rings/ridges DIVERGE at the heel. My Welshie when I bought him had similar. He's never had it and there were no signs whilst the hooves grew out. He was 5 when we got him.
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That's caused when the toe flares out - so indicative of laminae separation and possibly rotation of p3.

With the OP's pony (if what we are seeing are metabolic ripples ;)) we aren't at that stage.....so far.
 
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