Ups and downs of bringing on youngsters!

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Trot_On_Dressage

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Pointless post and long for which I apologise, just need to vent my frustrations!

I have a 5yr which I started to back over winter, he was very immature for his age which is why he had been left till then. He is a laid back fellow 16hh TB x and was fairly straight forward to do. I have a lot of experience backing and producing youngsters, am a freelance BHSAI but will admit i my last youngster was 6 years ago. Took it slow and by Jan was walk, trot, canter in our outdoor school with and without others in school too, he took it all in his stride.

Everything was going well until the spring grass made its appearance a month ago! Unfortunately for me, my boy is very agile! He has lovely paces with real elevation ( which is why I bought him!) but that does mean he finds fly bucking, 4ft leaps, broncing etc extremely easy and I have come off him now 3 times in a month!

Our issue seems to be our outdoor school. The yard that he is at has horses in paddocks all round the arena, and they very helpfully have put a yearling out their too.

The first time he got me off we was happily working in the outdoor school, doing some pole work and general baby things, he was working well and concentrating and I thought to myself "ok I could leave it there, maybe I will just have a canter first!' Big mistake! As I asked for canter he exploded and off I came. Never mind, dusted myself off and got back on. How I didn't fall off again I do not know as poor little devil was petrified! Managed to bail out as he was careering round the school in a panic.

Took it back to the very beginning as he had lost his confidence. Daily sessions of lungeing or long reining, getting on, getting off etc and all was fine. Now we are back at stage we was at before and unfortunately he has had me off again!

Just feel very deflated with our 3 steps forwards, 5 steps back. I do know that this is what happens with babies but being self employed I really can't afford to hurt myself and am getting too old for this!

Sorry, pointless and feeling sorry for myself!
 
Hi I am going through the same thing. Apart from I decided to buy an Arab! He was going so well in the school started jumping. Yes until the grass came through now even when I get on he hops up the yard. And the school is just hell for us at the moment. What I did was just hacked him for about 2 weeks and forgot about the school. He seems to be good riding out I supose there walking in a straigt line and always looking at something.
Yesterday he rode so well I thought I'd risk it and take him in the school. He actually was an angel :) nothing like he was the last time I went in there.! Think he just got bored off trotting and cantering round in circles! But hopefully it wasn't a one off :)
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Unfortunately we haven't started hacking yet. I was planning on starting hacking with him but the day before our first scheduled hack was the first time I fell off him ( not worded very well) so obviously we didn't go and since then have been per occupied with starting all over again. I'm not sure I trust him to take him out yet!
 
I will assume you have had back/teeth saddle checked and are not feeding him too much!
I used to work on a dressage yard and was involved in the backing of many athletic youngsters. Like yours they were left until 4 or 5 years. I have also done my own.
It sounds as if you are doing everything right by taking things slowly etc.

One thing we did at the yard was to start EVERY session with freeschooling. 1st without tack to warm up their backs,then with the saddle on(stirrups flapping) The majority of the horses would have a darn good buck when sent into canter. They were kept moving forward. Some were encouraged to buck by loose schooling over jumps. Some were fine with just the saddle but would buck like mad when the bridle was added(reins removed!)
Once they had finished the display of athletisism they would generally come over to the handler and be ready for some gentle riding. It generally took up to a year of this routine before they were ridden without this warm up. However there was one 20 year old PSG horse who was cold backed and needed to get this out of his system before every session!

If you have the facilities,its worth giving this a try. I would suggest you start with very low key loose work because it sounds as if your horse can go 'off on one' and stop listening to you. So try without the tack just in walk. If he is settled , up the pressure for trot,perhaps using poles for extra concentration.Once he understands your signals(particularly 'calm down':))add the tack.
Good luck
 
Yes, Abitodd he has been checked. He is also on the lowest calorie feed you can get ( I have previously worked for a leading feed company and understand feeding)

I start every session with either lungeing or long reining before I attempt to get on. I always lay on him first a couple of times before jumping on board too.

It is just baby high jinx but I'm not sure I want to keep landing on my head! Your not in my area are you?! Perhaps I need to find a gutsy youngster that doesn't mind flying off!
 
I find that sometimes you get a youngster that makes very slow but steady progress, & others that feel as though you're getting nowhere & then one day suddenly click. And lots that have phases of doing a bit of both.
We had a few problems with daughters pony in January (she's rising 5) our fence got broke & we had 2 weeks without turnout, hence letting her get away with little things as she's lively anyway, such as letting her break into canter on the lunge of her own accord & not correcting her, allowing her to walk on once mounted instead of making her stand till she was asked to walk on. Not much alternative really as I felt unfair going from 12hrs turnout to none & punishing her for natural behavior. But we certainly paid for it for 6 weeks after! You'll get there in the end.
 
i was exactly the same, however not even nearly as knowledgeable as your i backed my first youngster last December and everything has been going swimmingly been out to few low key dressage comps and hacking with friends and all was going great, until i took her Saturday to our local riding centre where you can hire the facilities. and the spring grass was most definitely in the air, once finally aboard having broken away from wagon and tried to attack my mounting block, we stood on the spot for about 5 minutes wouldnt go forward would go sideways just stood piafing all on her own, Like you mine is warmblood and has very elevated paces when she wants to and trying to get any movement was a nightmare..

i eventually got some good work out of her but after her been immaculately behaved in all respects up until now i did come away feeling a little deflated about the who thing..

i think its one of those things where you have to take it on the chin and try move forward ive booked 2 lessons this week to try help bring her back down to earth and have also reduced her feed now.. its something they ALL do at some point ive been told.

Hope you manage to get going again, i understand the worry about not hurting ones self tho makes tackling them hard sometimes and makes you pick battles much more carefully..
 
Trot_On_Dressage said:
Yes, Abitodd he has been checked. He is also on the lowest calorie feed you can get ( I have previously worked for a leading feed company and understand feeding)

I start every session with either lungeing or long reining before I attempt to get on. I always lay on him first a couple of times before jumping on board too.

It is just baby high jinx but I'm not sure I want to keep landing on my head! Your not in my area are you?! Perhaps I need to find a gutsy youngster that doesn't mind flying off!
Click to expand...

So just try lungeing without the line. Use your body language/position to turn him. The bucking fits seem to happen when they feel unbalanced(going into canter,going around corners,jumping and quick turns,not forgetting carrying a rider!) The trick is to encourage the gusty behaviour and keep them moving forwards. It does wonders for loosening up the back and making them aware of their balance. It also works a bit like 'join up' and the horse has increased respect for you. I freeschooled a group of 5 once. They were totally with me, reacting to my slightest command. I felt like Jean Fanscois Pignon. Bloody brilliant!
Is there an older horse you could practise on?
 
Thanks littlelegs. I'm sure we will. I'm not giving up, just feeling deflated and wish I had a magic wand that could turn him back into the lovely boy he was in jan! He is out 24/7, worked everyday in some form as he does need that constant routine to occupy his brain, I lunge or long rein him before getting on and he is always foot perfect, listenings to my commands and doesn't misbehave on the lunge. Yesterday I was happily trotting around on him no problem.
 
There must be something in the air then as my youngster (4yrs) has been a very good girl, walking & trotting round the school very happily, short little canters, hacking very well and over the last 10 days has turned in to Lucifer in a chestnut pony suit! We have bucks and temper tantrums and the latest trick, the rear - not very much fun, and has left me feeling incredibly deflated and questioning everything. Have a lesson booked for Thursday morningand almost dreading it (esp as the last rear nearly resulted in her coming over on me) - Ever wonder why you do it??? :)
 
Personally, once he is reasonably ok with stop go and basic steering in walk with a bit of trot I'd be getting him out hacking lots rather than staying in the school. I'd want him to find his balance and build his strength with a rider on in a low pressure and enjoyable environment. I'd look to work on the canter out hacking too as it is much easier for the horse to learn to canter under saddle in a straight line with a lead from a steady horse and preferably a slight incline.

I'm no expert at all, my youngster is my first, but it has worked reasonably well so far..... I hope that I don't sound like I'm teaching my granmother to suck eggs but hacking has made the world of difference to my girl, especially in developing the canter, and she is still better cantering on a hack. When we are on a hack she will canter alone or in a group, in front or behind, I can vary the speed and get transitions pretty much when and where I want them, she is fairly balanced in a straight line and her stamina is improving too. In the school she still gets a bit worked up about cantering and can lose her balance a bit on corners and circles, we also had a phase of canter transitions causing bucks and bouncing in the school.
 
Yes hacking is a good idea but before I venture out I do want to make sure I am safe. When he went off today it was just as I got on him not on a canter transition. Probably didn't explain that very well. Got back on and my helper led me around and he was fine after.

Unfortunately my yard has terrible hacking, it is all mostly roads and I don't feel it would be safe to venture out on them as of yet
 
I am a huge groundwork fan and start mine off with lots and lots of long reining BUT I do think you have to be wary of getting them too fit from lunging etc if the issue is being ridden.

If it was my horse, I would have a good session (whether you canter or not) and chuck out in the field for a week to break the cycle as youngsters very quickly seem to get into a horrid rhythm of tension and naughtiness after a few bad sessions.

Then when you bring back in, go through the mounting/walking on etc but perhaps try to drop some of the time spent lunging/long reining to prevent getting too fit?

Are there any good instructors/ event riders etc around who you could hire to ride a few times and see if better with someone new/used to dealing with naughtiness? Or even someone good on the floor to help you through any jinks when you are on board?
 
I would think you'd be less likely to get an explosion out on the road with a steady older horse for company and a helper on the ground going out just in walk than you would in a school that has loose horses turned out nearby.....

There would be much more to keep his interest and keep his mind of mischief! I have to hack on the roads too, there are only a couple of off road places we can use and we have to do roadwork to get there so I know it is daunting but it helped my mare so much. We had a few sticky situations, mainly because she doesn't like to stand still so passing vehicles on narrow lanes could be tricky and so could junctions but at first we had a helper walking or cycling who could grab hold if needs be.
 
I am bringing on a 4 year old mare at the moment (with a lot of help I might add!).

She was going very well and then all of a sudden started bucking. I personally feel that they usually have a reason for how they behave so looked into it.

I had her saddle checked and basically the points of the tree were too close to her withers which caused her discomfort. I suppose it would be like us walking or running with a stone in our shoe!

She was ok hacking in a straight line but when she was on a circle in the school (leaning into the pressure of the saddle) she found it uncomfortable and was trying to tell me!

Her canter was worse as it takes more shoulder movement, especially striking off (plus the weight on the rider on the inside leading leg). She started to stike off on the wrong lead too.

I bought a second hand synthetic high withered saddle and had it fitted by a good saddler and problem solved!!!

They change shape so quickly at their age so may be worth having your saddle looked at again?
 
Definitely agree with you militiger in regards to making them too fit. This is why I alternate the long reining and lungeing.

Long reining him has really helped with his confidence, he even didn't bat an eyelid this morning when I was long reining him and the little yearling came trotting over to the fence, so there really was no need for his explosion when I was on board.

I do a lot of groundwork with him and he is extremely mannerly in hand, long line and lunge.

I do something with him everyday in some form and am against leaving him for a week between sessions as he is very clever and needs that constant routine. Like most babies he has an attention span of a Knat and does get bored easy. I guess I try to keep things safe and not push him too hard ( or my safety!) but there is a fine line between keeping it progressive and not letting him get bored.

I am starting to worry about my safety. As mentioned I am self employed and if I hurt myself I am screwed. Being a freelance instructor myself I don't earn a great deal of cash to spend on someone else riding him for me.

If I was teaching someone I would say just get on with it but when it's yourself what you know you should be doing goes out the window!
 
If you have a lot of contacts nearby any chance of you & someone else of a similar ability doing a free exchange of a lesson each? That way you get free input from the ground when he starts. Or maybe a one for one ride each others horse for a session so you can watch yours? Especially if they have a different issue that you could help in return with.
 
Hi all,
This is my first post on here :)
I have a 3yr old (nearly 4) that I'm literally just starting to back and boy did I pick the wrong time of year! He has turned into a monster these last few weeks..I'm hoping it's just a phase!
Has been perfect on lunge etc up till now when Ive decided to get on..typical! Bucked me off on Sunday for our first 'walk' in the school..still sore now! I too am feeling a bit disheartened but I guess that's babies for you.
It's just nice to know I'm not the only one with a 'devil' horse at the moment!x
 
I think your a bit stuck mainly cause your hacking is poor. If you have been working him for 12 weeks ish, and not yet hacked him then I think he really really needs to get out and about. Can you get safe escorts to get him out, you only need to walk, but hacking will make him grow up & chill out an enormous amount.
 
Welcome Evo WB. Sound like we are all enjoying the fun of spring!

Good luck with yours. Have you tried laying on your youngster first before getting on?

I also find putting my foot in the stirrup and getting up in saddle then getting off helps before you take the plunge to sit on them. A lot of horses don't like seeing you high up
 
Thank u. I have laid over him and sat on him and he was so good you would almost say he didn't know I was there but having had a baby a year ago and still having the baby fat I know that's definately not the case!haha!
I think it was just one of those days as he also pranced up to his field,tail in the air..very pretty though I must say ;)
I think its about being positive with them and accepting we all have our bad days..easier said than done sometimes!x
 
Yes def Evo WB! It is easy to get deflated. Yesterday I was trotting around in the arena no problem, today face planting and eating sand :) I seem to be getting a taste for it!
 
Spring is definately in the air! I lunged my friends rising 4 year old the other day and he exploded! Glad I wasn't on top that day!! We might try him on some magnesium oxide, my horse is on it this year, but wasn't last spring and he was a raving loon, but this year has been saint whilst all around are going bonkers! that could be worth a
try for you too?
 
Thanks SugarPuff. It is good to know there are other people in the same boat!

On a plus side my boy looks like he might be one hell of a jumper judging by how high he can jump off the ground with all 4 feet!

He is on the lowest of the low calorie feed and it does have magnesium added into it already.

Am potentially thinking I might ask someone I know to ride him for me for a while as they are taller than me ( and younger!)

The only thing that does put me off that is the yard gossips discussing how an instructor can get someone else to ride her youngster! I'm not really that bothered about falling off but I just can't afford to hurt myself. Plus I have a yard friend helping me on the ground when I'm on board but she is a bit clumsy and sometimes doesn't help. I have a great bond with my boy, he follows me every where so I might be better on the ground with someone else on top. But I can just hear what the gossips will say ......
 
Could you load up and go somewhere off road with safe company to hack? I have the same issue as you regarding a serious lack of hacking, and we do have to trailer up to hack. We try to take our rising four year old out twice a week in the trailer to hack, school twice a week and then do a little fittening work round the exercise track at the yard next door. With a day off. He's been my first to back and is being an absolute angel so far- I've been very lucky!
 
Do be careful when free schooling - I did the same when i first got my youngster (having watched him being free schooled at the dealers) and he went straight over the arena fence. If he is athletic and wants to get over to his friends, it can backfire!
 
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